Alternative for 5200/4300

For those that don't know you can get 3M 5200 at Home Depot for about $17. The problem I have with these 3M products is once you open the tube, that's it. One-time use. This is the small tube with the screw on cap. I called 3M and they told me it was a one time use. This stuff isn't cheap when all you need is a dab.

I know there are also other alternatives that TF folks use, but you pay premium price.

But I may have found a good, reasonably priced product, about $9. One thing to be aware of is it says "fast cure" and it is. It also has a good cap on it.

Just sharing. I have no commercial interest in these products.

That's wonderful ASD.
I always keep a small tube of Life Caulk for that reason.
Any info on the Locktite re UV resistance, adhesion ect?

Just started using a new to the US product called Rescue Bond. It's from my friend who owns Rescue Tape, and he's really excited about this product. We're kind of "testing" it around the boat, even though it's been used extensively in Europe and elsewhere. So far we've rebed a deck prism on the foredeck (which doesn't leak for the first time in years), filled holes in the upper deck (no leaks again) and fixed peeling non-skid strips on the fly bridge ladder. So far so good. We'll keep using it on more things we find.

Oh, the cool thing is once opened the tube is good up to 6-months.

https://www.amazon.com/Rescue-Bond-XL1-PRO/dp/B01GIV09ZA

I have been buying extra nozzles for 5200 . I just let it dry in the nozzle and screw a new one on the next time . Still it's not cheap but it has been working lately .

The information on Amazon says it can be painted with any water based paint. There aren't many people using water based paints on their boats, so I guess if your going to paint afterwards you will need to use something different.

I noticed Active Captain promoting the Rescue Bond XL...

Has anyone been able to find a MSDS to see what the "Hybrid" really is?

I keep a small tube of 5200 or 4300 with the screw on cap in my freezer. It lasts for ever in the freezer. My last little tube was still useable after 10 months. I probably used it about 4 times in the interim. Just recap it and back in the freezer. I have not tried freezing a large tbe, but then again, I do not need it very often so I generally do not buy a large tube.

So I thought I'd give Rescue Bond a try. It has some great claims on their promo material, but what is missing is any reference to cure times other than "Rapid Cure." There is no suggestions for working time, set time or cure time on the container.

I wanted to secure a small, plastic storage box on my upper deck, behind the pilot house, but wanted to try something other than drilling into the deck. Since Rescue Bond claims to stick to anything, I used it to "glue" down a couple of small blocks of Starboard which I would use to screw in some brackets for the box. I did this two days ago but the Rescue Bond has only "cured" a little bit around the edges. Weather has been dry, day temps in the 60s(F) down to the mid-40s at night. Can anyone with experience with this product give me a hint as to how long it will take for adhesion?

Thanks,
dvd

Presently becoming a fan of butyl tape. 95% of the things I've used 5200 on and 100% of 4200 have plenty of mechanical strength / bond already.

OK - I just gave up on Rescue Bond.

I went back to the boat this afternoon and, more than 48 hours since applying, the Rescue Bond had not set up. The Starboard blocks were easily lifted from the deck and the Rescue Bond was still so liquid I was able to clean it off with a paper towel, then used a solvent to get the residue off.

Don't know what went wrong, but it didn't work at all -- back to 4200...

Anything you remove to re bed will probably need re bedding again.

Dolfinite is probably the easiest to R&R , it is not a glue .

Some early TT need to re bed every thru deck fitting and PH windows every 5-8 years , so it pays to be EZ on your self .

dvd said:

OK - I just gave up on Rescue Bond.

I went back to the boat this afternoon and, more than 48 hours since applying, the Rescue Bond had not set up. The Starboard blocks were easily lifted from the deck and the Rescue Bond was still so liquid I was able to clean it off with a paper towel, then used a solvent to get the residue off.

Don't know what went wrong, but it didn't work at all -- back to 4200...

Click to expand...

I would contact the manufacturer. I'm sure they would investigate what went wrong. The power of social media is of great concern to small companies.

hmason said:

I would contact the manufacturer. I'm sure they would investigate what went wrong. The power of social media is of great concern to small companies.

Click to expand...

What went wrong is that starboard i dam near impossible to glue. I would say this is not the sealers fault. To successfully glue starboard a special adhesive is required.

motion30 said:

What went wrong is that starboard i dam near impossible to glue. I would say this is not the sealers fault. To successfully glue starboard a special adhesive is required.

Click to expand...

True, but whether it bonded to the starboard or not, it should have still set.

First, it's important to understand that these products are not all the same and it's important to use the right product for the purpose. Some are sealants, some are adhesives, some are a combination of both, some are intended to be permanent and some are intended to be removable.

Second, There are tried and proven products and there are "new" products. There are times and places where using a "new" product is fine; if it fails, you can remove it and use something else. There are other times where the application is more critical and a proven product might be a wiser choice.

There are LOTS of good adhesives/sealants for marine use. 5200 is the gold standard for mounting things like thru hulls where one cannot afford failure.

A few products that work well (both dry somewhat flexible)

West Systems G Flex 655 epoxy, great for for plastic or wood or metals and dissimilar materials. 75 Shore D durometer, Cure 45min. Workable cure 7 hrs. Great for waterproof seal, where there might be some flexing.

3M DP8010 Scotchweld similar to above, but more expensive, shelf life only 6 mo. Shore D 55 to 60, if you need more flex.

I've had no problem sealing up the tube of 5200 and using again, but over time, it will harden.

tadhana said:

I keep a small tube of 5200 or 4300 with the screw on cap in my freezer. It lasts for ever in the freezer. My last little tube was still useable after 10 months. I probably used it about 4 times in the interim. Just recap it and back in the freezer. I have not tried freezing a large tbe, but then again, I do not need it very often so I generally do not buy a large tube.

Click to expand...

Yes, I also freeze all polyurethane cartridge tubes. They work great after a thawing, no hardening. I put mine in a plastic bag, then into the garage freezer. A freezer halts the curing reaction with moisture, being a freezer, the air becomes dry. This works with Loctite PL polyurethane products.

Seevee said:

There are LOTS of good adhesives/sealants for marine use. 5200 is the gold standard for mounting things like thru hulls where one cannot afford failure.............

Click to expand...

Many folks will argue that 5200 is a poor choice for thru hulls because it is permanent and you may have to remove them at some point. 4200 may be a better choice.

A thru hull will have a nut on the inside to keep it from falling out. Adhesion is not important but sealing is.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

For those that don't know you can get 3M 5200 at Home Depot for about $17. The problem I have with these 3M products is once you open the tube, that's it. One-time use. This is the small tube with the screw on cap. I called 3M and they told me it was a one time use. This stuff isn't cheap when all you need is a dab.

I know there are also other alternatives that TF folks use, but you pay premium price.

But I may have found a good, reasonably priced product, about $9. One thing to be aware of is it says "fast cure" and it is. It also has a good cap on it.

Just sharing. I have no commercial interest in these products.

Click to expand...

According to their published specs, this is a polyether which is the same type of sealant that 3M uv4000 is. Since Uv4000 is about half the strength of 5200, is a much faster cure and it does not yellow when exposed to UV, it's pretty much my go to sealant except when I Need 5200's properties. So this sounds like it could be a alternative to UV4000.

Ken

I do not know if this helps, but for well over 20 years, we have been using moisture cured polyurethane sealants from TREMCO and will never look back.. I learned the science behind them & avoided all the "marine hype" and associated "marine costs" about what they are all about way back.. As to 3M 5200 & 4200, great products if you want to pay 4+X the cost for the same or better product without the word "MARINE" as part of the marketing scheme..

But, then again we use 100's of tubes per year so to average "Joe boater", maybe that does not matter.. .


Tony

There are other brands of polyurethane sealant/adhesive than Sikaflex, I`ve used Parfix, works fine, but that only helps Aussies.
Some products only work on certain surfaces,maybe it needed some degree of absorption into the surface which" oily" starboard doesn`t allow. What does the manufacturer say?

I don't know why the Rescue Bond didn't cure for you, DVD. I used it when I rebed the deck prism on our foredeck last October. This was the first winter in 5 years that the damn thing hasn't leaked (and I had rebed it before with Dolphinite my old "go to" product). I won't say the Dolphinite failed necessarily, as it's more likely my rebedding job failed. But the Rescue Bond was much easier to use and has not leaked a single drop during what has been a very wet winter here in WA.

Tony Athens said:

I do not know if this helps, but for well over 20 years, we have been using moisture cured polyurethane sealants from TREMCO and will never look back.. I learned the science behind them & avoided all the "marine hype" and associated "marine costs" about what they are all about way back.. As to 3M 5200 & 4200, great products if you want to pay 4+X the cost for the same or better product without the word "MARINE" as part of the marketing scheme..

But, then again we use 100's of tubes per year so to average "Joe boater", maybe that does not matter.. .


Tony

Click to expand...

I am the same way of thinking, for example Loctite PL S30, $5 for 10 oz cartridge.
I use it for all sorts of things like sealing windows. I even use it underwater for through hulls, etc... It is like 4200.
I have also mixed this at 30% with 1/32 inch fiberglass milled fibers. Really strengthens the rubber.

$4.23 at Lowes
https://www.lowes.com/pd/LOCTITE-Pl..._clickID=f350ac6d-3f97-438f-a21c-957f2fadf816

$5.88 at HDepot, I need to goto Lowes for this.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Loctite-...e-Roof-and-Flashing-Sealant-1675273/203163733

Tony Athens said:

I do not know if this helps, but for well over 20 years, we have been using moisture cured polyurethane sealants from TREMCO and will never look back.. I learned the science behind them & avoided all the "marine hype" and associated "marine costs" about what they are all about way back.. As to 3M 5200 & 4200, great products if you want to pay 4+X the cost for the same or better product without the word "MARINE" as part of the marketing scheme..

But, then again we use 100's of tubes per year so to average "Joe boater", maybe that does not matter.. .


Tony

Click to expand...

Tony,

What does TREMCO make that is a flexible epoxy sealant that would have the following characterists:
Reasonable fast work time: 30 min to harden, and 8 to 24 hours to fully cure.
Sand and paintable (or able to add pigment to it)
Hardens to no more that a Shore D hardness
Flexible (25% elongation or more)
Waterproof and salt water resistant
Adhere to different substrates, wood, plastic, aluminum, metal ......
Shelf life of at least two years.

A lot like 5200, but quicker to harden, and easy to paint and may look pretty..... and a lot cheaper. Not a 5200 replacement and not for thru hulls or real critical repairs.

Currently using the West Systems GFlex G655 which I've been vary happy with. Just looking for alternatives.


For permanent repairs on hull parts, fairings, trim, and water toys like kayaks, windsurfers and dinghies.

WesK said:

Many folks will argue that 5200 is a poor choice for thru hulls because it is permanent and you may have to remove them at some point. 4200 may be a better choice.

A thru hull will have a nut on the inside to keep it from falling out. Adhesion is not important but sealing is.

Click to expand...

WesK,

True, but for something like a thru hull, I'd prefer the security of 5200 over 4200 and put up with the removal difficulty, if needed. Just removed one a few months ago and it was not impossible, but, yes more work.

4200 is a fine product and works pretty well as a sealant.

"...has not leaked a single drop during what has been a very wet winter here in WA..."

Maybe because Rescue Bond is still liquid in the middle?

Don't know -- will probably do a few "test runs" with it in my garage over the next week or so. I do like the "reusability" of the cartridge, but the documentation on directions of use and cure times is pretty weak. It claims to stick to anything, even polyethylene plastics, and I sanded, flamed & solvent-washed the Starboard, but that really wan't the issue. It just never cured...

dvd

I have a 12 year old PVC inflatable that one of the tubes completely separated from the rubber curved arm that holds it to the transom. I contacted manufacturer, Harbor Products, who weren't sure of using it on pvc fabric but please send pics and result of project
I removed straps and weights after 24 hours and it was not the least bit dry and after 48 hours still easily peeled away. Came back a week later and appears the portion I didn't mess with seemed to cure so I redid top portion and still tacky 48 hours later. Let y'all know next week if it ever set up

"There aren't many people using water based paints on their boats, so I guess if your going to paint afterwards you will need to use something different."

Some fine products are water based.

Rustoleum aluminum primer works very well on galvanized metal ,as well as aluminum and can be top coated with oil based paint in 24 hours. Usually galvanized is really hard to get paint to stick to.

Folks with a PH and no fly bridge can use a water based product made for house trailers , loaded with reflective titanium particles to keep overhead temperature very close to ambient temp in shade ,,, cooler than simple white paint.

Too soft for deck paint that gets walked on , but also seals leaks with two or more coats.

Tony Athens said:

I do not know if this helps, but for well over 20 years, we have been using moisture cured polyurethane sealants from TREMCO and will never look back.. I learned the science behind them & avoided all the "marine hype" and associated "marine costs" about what they are all about way back.. As to 3M 5200 & 4200, great products if you want to pay 4+X the cost for the same or better product without the word "MARINE" as part of the marketing scheme..

But, then again we use 100's of tubes per year so to average "Joe boater", maybe that does not matter.. .


Tony

Click to expand...

Tony, I looked at their website, and don't see any indication that their products are to be used in the saltwater environment. (Which doesn't mean that they won't work well, just that they don't claim that they do.) Is your experience with their products in saltwater, or fresh? I can see it making a huge difference. Thanks.

Brain,

Like many products, not every market is gone after by the manufacturer. You could take the product, repackage and put "marine" all over it, do a few tests and triple the $$..It's that easy.. That does not make it any better, only way more expensive.. 3M 5200 is a great product, but the cost is beyond crazy, and in actual use, offers nothing better than than many other 1/4 or less priced polyurethanes.

My testing of various moisture cured polyurethanes and hybrid silicone's (GE Ultraglaze 4000 for one) over the past 25+ yrs and proved that to me beyond any doubt... Maybe 95% of the work we preform and methods we use to accomplish what we do has never been "certified" for marine use..ABYC has there place , but there is way more to a product than that. It's all about long term field testing in my book, but also realizing that there is always room for improvement..


Tony