Clean out Vacuflush Vacuum Tank

So our Vacuflush toilets have been flushing slowly and I discovered an accumulation of toilet paper in the vacuum tanks (not the holding tank) where water is accumulated for the vacuum pump to discharge into the holding tank. Does anyone have a suggestion for a chemical that will dissolve the old TP? Or another method I can use to clean out the tanks?
Yes we are using marine TP and using plenty of water. I think it is just a long accumulated mess that needs attention. Thanks

Caustic soda but be very careful

How about tilting the inlet end of the tank up, filling it with water, let it sit over night, and pump it out. Repeat as necessary.

Ted

RVs sometimes have a similar problem. There are cleaners available. So far I've not needed one so have no recommendations. But browse the RV places.
They usually have to be allowed to sit for a while, several hours or more, but have a look.

Try using Noflex Digestor for a while, it does a great job of cleaning things up and if you follow the normal dosage after it works wonders with odours .........

I experienced this awful mess not too long ago, it was related directly to TP. In particular, Angel Soft brand that we had used for a number of years without a problem, along with many RV folk who recommended it on many of the RV forums. Shortly prior to experiencing a major blockage in the one vacuum tank, we discovered that Angel Soft had changed their formulation and after doing the TP in a glass jar test, it failed almost as spectacularly as it blocked the vacuum tank. The blockage was a paste of TP and feces with much of the water content pulled out. There was no salvation other than removing the tank and flushing it with a hose with some mechanical loosening. I'm a retired Master plumber, it ranked up there with the top yuck-worthy experiences in my time in the trade.

I would VERY strongly discourage the use of caustics, sulfuric acid, or any chemical solution. It's bad enough with a paste of poop and paper, but caustics only compound the mess and additionally make it very dangerous. If it doesn't clear the blockage, then you've got a dangerous caustic stinky mess that will rain havoc on whatever it comes in contact with when it pops free. DON'T DO IT!!

Use a hose to flush it out. If you can manage to flush it into a normal (non-marine) toilet and flush the discharge, that's probably best, perhaps flush it into a 5 gal. bucket and then dump that in a water closet. It's just a messy job, no getting around it. Once the tank is cleared, you may consider treating it with muriatic acid to remove urinary salts that typically build up in the tank and can initiate blockage from those buildups.

Test your TP periodically. "Marine" just means more expensive, "Septic safe" is no better assurance, either. Take a wad of your potential TP, drop it in a clear container of water, let stand 10 min. or so, then shake it up. If the paper turns to a slurry, it passes. If it retains its sheet form, move to the next prospect. Use the brand that disintegrates most completely and quickly.

Patience! Good luck!

"I'm a retired Master plumber, it ranked up there with the top yuck-worthy experiences in my time in the trade."

As was my father , but he always said, "It washes off".

I think y'all managed to miss that the problem is NOT in his holding tank but in the VacuFlush VACUUM tank. And it's not a true clog, it's a "slurry" of water and accumulated TP (which he claims is marine/rv from WM) that's causing the toilet to flush very very slowly.

We spent some time on the phone last night and this morning I had a talk with Patrick LeClerc, CEO of Trac Ecological who makes Sew Clean Sew Clean He told me that Sew Clean will "eat" some toilet paper...prob'ly not the previously mentioned Angel Soft, but should include marine/rv and any other "quick dissolve" TP. He recommended a 4:1 dilution ratio so that the solution is stronger than the normal Sew Clean, and allow the solution stay in the system for at least 16 hours, up to 24 hours followed by a fresh water flush with plenty of water.

Waiting to find out if it works. Also have a call into Dave at Zaal (makers of No-Flex Digester).

I also recommended that he open up the vacuum pump to check for a buildup in it around the bellows 'cuz it's unlikely that NONE of the TP made it that far.

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

Results

Well here is what I did/ am doing on this slurry of TP in the accumulator tank. I disconnected pump and filled accumulator tank with a concentrated Digest It solution through the toilet and let it soak overnight. Reconnected pump and let Vacuflush cycle. Then turned off water to toilet and flushed water in bowl. Turned off pump and relieved vacuum (flushed dry toilet) and turned off vacuum pump. I then pulled the toilet input hose to the accumulator tank, turned on the vacuum and used a hose and nozzle to spray around the inside of the tank through the input hose fitting to wash out remaining residue as it was being pumped out. Put hose back together and a couple fresh water flushes after that and all is well. I am going to soak again with Digest It and hose out again to get last remaining junk out of the tank. YMMV

I'm curious, which type of Vacuflush do you have? We had the components on our boat (pump separate from vacuum tank), and the tanks discharged from the bottom, no way to accumulate anything on the bottom.

caltexflanc said:

I'm curious, which type of Vacuflush do you have? We had the components on our boat (pump separate from vacuum tank), and the tanks discharged from the bottom, no way to accumulate anything on the bottom.

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Attached is a diagram (if I did it correctly)

caltexflanc said:

I'm curious, which type of Vacuflush do you have? We had the components on our boat (pump separate from vacuum tank), and the tanks discharged from the bottom, no way to accumulate anything on the bottom.

Click to expand...

Too little water with too much TP can clog the discharge port in the vacuum tank, causing TP to pile up in the tank. So can flushing something that shouldn't have been flushed. I remember removing a fist sized stuffed teddy bear from a vacuum tank...flushed by the owner's grandchild.

Fortunately, though, the vacuum switch assembly on your vacuum tank is a 3" threaded cap at one end that can be easily removed to clean out the tank. UNfortunately (as you'll see in the photo Tom provided), that's not true of the vacuum tank in his vacuum generator.

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

Yeah, that's a different set up from ours. So that tube outlined on the left goes down near the bottom of the tank?
We had the advantage of having lots of space, and everything could travel down hill from one component to the next. And we're big believers in the "use some water" club. So many people think these are like airplane toilets, press the button and release.

Sum Escape,
It sounds like you are well on your way to cleaning up the problem.
Two years ago, I had a few days with nothing better to do, so I disconnected the two hose connections and removed the entire vacuum generator (actually three of them) from the boat. With bleach, gloves, goggles, a coat hanger and garden hose, I cleaned out the generator(s). They usually take 42-46 pump cycles each time we flush them so we count every few weeks to make sure they are running fine.
Taking the generator out of the boat, also makes changing the duck bills much easier.
Good luck.

You had two days with nothing better to do than CLEAN OUT YOUR HOLDING TANK???!!!

Dude................really?

Toadhall,
No, I cleaned the vacuum generators. The holding tank gets pumped out about every 4-5 weeks.
There is always a list of projects to be done on the boat. In the next few weeks, likely scrub and paint the engine room, maybe paint some of the bilges, and if I get bored, perhaps replace some head hoses.

Were the results from Sew Clean and No-Flex Digester ever published here? I have a vacuum tank that is near impossible to remove and II can't get to the discharge fitting to clean it out. TP plug......

Wow, aren't vacuflush systems the greatest!

catalinajack said:

Wow, aren't vacuflush systems the greatest!

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Yes... especially when the boat builders install them in such easily accessible locations for EZ maintenance!

OK, so now we have a boat with VacuFlush toilets. Completely rebuilt, new sanitation hoses, etc. $$$

But I guess it means I now need to pay attention to TP, unlike before with our electric macerating toilets.

Can folks here suggest what brands/sub-brands of TP pass the "self-dissolve" test?

And of those, are there any that are actually absorbent, don't just smear, and don't feel like sandpaper?

-Chris

The VacuFlush can handle any TP...what matters is whether you flush enough water with it to rinse it and all the bits of solid waste out of the hoses. At least 90% of VF problems are the result of using too little water.

The volume supplied by the water valve when you step on the peddle to flush isn't even close to enough to fill the hoses, so it's necessary to either add at least a quart of water to the bowl ahead of the flush--which you should always do ahead of solids and/or TP anyway--and flush a full bowl of water through it once a day.

I think I've already sent you my "VacuFlush 101" paper...if so, I suggest you read it....if not, send me a PM that includes your email address (no way to attach anything to a PM) and I'll send it to you. Same offer applies to anyone else who wants it.

--Peggie

--Peggie

Yes, I too have a new boat with a Vacuflush head, ugh. They stuck the vacuum tank where it is really tough to get to. I would like to rip it all out and replace it with a Marine Elegance but running the new discharge hose will be almost impossible. The old hose is 1.5” and I could go with 1” hose for the ME head. The exterior of the new hose is 1.375”. I wonder if it would be possible to use the old hose as a chase for the new hose. Using a lot of cable lube what do you think, is it possible to pull the new hose through with only 1/8” clearance? I am thinking about getting a plumber with a camera to check the old hose for blockages first.

Depends on how many sharp corners you had to go around, but I'd think it would be possible. Very helpful to have someone push the new hose as you pull the old one. If the old hose is 1.5", wouldn't it be nearly 2" OD? Also if you use the Raritan hose, it is very flexible and would be easier to pull.

On the VF vacuum tank - I ran plenty of water through mine, including flushing it with many gallons of cleaners and fresh. When I finally removed the thing, it had - amazing - stuff in it. Some of it fossilized, some looking as fresh as the day it was born. This was after the winter layover, which involved many gallons of flushing and antifreeze. The only way to clean these tanks is to remove them, remove all the fittings, and get inside with a pressure washer.

We have been using Scott single-ply for nine-plus years in both our Vacuflush heads and have never (knock on wood!) had a TP clog past the toilet bowl discharge. We have had a couple at that point, primarily because our daughter thinks "more is better" when using TP. But those clogs are an easy fix in that I wait a couple hours and then use a coat hanger to poke the clog and it always goes away. Then I flush with plenty of water, which pushes the TP through to the holding tank.

But as I said, the Scott single-ply has never clogged the hoses, bellows, or the duck bills, so I think it's very good to use on Vacuflush systems.

Comodave said:

Yes, I too have a new boat with a Vacuflush head, ugh. They stuck the vacuum tank where it is really tough to get to. I would like to rip it all out and replace it with a Marine Elegance but running the new discharge hose will be almost impossible.

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What makes the run of a single hose from the toilet to the holding tank "almost impossible," Dave?



--Peggie

All the cabinetry and the fact that Formula tied down the discharge hose every 18”. Then it looks like it goes outboard of the starboard fuel tank. So pretty much all of it is inaccessible except for maybe the part behind the refer.

The new 1” Saniflex is 1.375 OD and with the old hose having an ID of 1.5” that would give me 1/8” gap for the new hose to slide inside the old hose. I have been playing it out in my mind and it may be the only way to get the new hose in place. It isn’t at the top of my project list, not even close, yet. But given the number of issues people have with Vacuflush heads even just the routine maintenance and the place the vacuum pump is located I will not be able to get to it to do the work. So I have been thinking about changing it out before I have to do the work.

Ok this is a topic that can get real stinky lol! As for toilet paper we use what ever we want as no paper goes in the toilet. We have been to many countries where you cant put paper in the toilet and have found out that having a small trashcan by the toilet works well. It works so well that I started doing it in our 5thwheel and it makes all the difference in the world. and if you empty the can regularly it is not smelly or gross. Now for cleaning the tank from the picture you posted i would pull the input hose off and put either a rv holding tank flusher or a pressure washer drain cleaner. I have used that this for so many different tasks of cleaning. I have a High pressure pump on our water maker that doubles as a pressure washer with salt or fresh water.

All the cabinetry and the fact that Formula tied down the discharge hose every 18”. Then it looks like it goes outboard of the starboard fuel tank. So pretty much all of it is inaccessible except for maybe the part behind the refer.


That sounds to me like the problem isn't running a new discharge line, it's in removing VF system and all the existing hoses. You seem to have it in your mind that the new discharge hose has to follow the same torturous route as the existing one without knowing whether whoever installed the VF did it the only way it could have been done or made a complete mess of it--something that happens a lot. I was in Detroit a couple of weeks ago spec'ing out the plumbing on a 41' Chris Craft that had two VF systems the owner wants to replace with MEs...one of 'em had a discharge line that actually had U turns in it, and the other one wasn't much better. Once we sorted out that mess and removed both VF systems, mapping out the hose runs for the new toilets turned out be a simple straightforward job.


So your first step should be creating a "clean slate" which from what you've said will not be any fun. But once you've done that, I'm pretty sure you'll find that plumbing the ME will be a lot easier than you think it will be.


--Peggie

The routing of the existing discharge hose is pretty straight but just behind everything. It goes straight, pretty much, aft to the vacuum tank and then across the boat to the holding tank. There really isn’t a much better ot shorter route, really no other way to run it. But I don’t want to have to tear out all the cabinets to run the new one and cut the ties on the old one off. Hopefully I can find a plumber that has a camera that we can run down the discharge hose to see if it takes any radical turns or has any blockages that would stop the new hose. I won’t even get to it this winter, too many other projects first.

HeadMistress said:

The VacuFlush can handle any TP...what matters is whether you flush enough water with it to rinse it and all the bits of solid waste out of the hoses. At least 90% of VF problems are the result of using too little water.

I think I've already sent you my "VacuFlush 101" paper...if so, I suggest you read it....i

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That's good news, Peggie, thanks! Yep, you sent 101 and I mostly memorized it... just didn't see detailed info on TP.

Moonfish said:

We have been using Scott single-ply for nine-plus years in both our Vacuflush heads and have never (knock on wood!) had a TP clog past the toilet bowl discharge.

But as I said, the Scott single-ply has never clogged the hoses, bellows, or the duck bills, so I think it's very good to use on Vacuflush systems.

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Thanks, but I have to admit I can't hardly think of any less comfortable brand of TP... so I'm hoping to avoid stuff like that...

sailormike said:

As for toilet paper we use what ever we want as no paper goes in the toilet. We have been to many countries where you cant put paper in the toilet and have found out that having a small trashcan by the toilet works well.

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Yuck!



-Chris