Used boat presentations

markpierce said:

My purpose to boat is to escape the insanity. (No reflection on the election night.) Have no TV onboard, and only one TV at the dirt home and no reason to apologize for same..

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Mark,

Well some folks escape from insanity IS to watch TV. Not mine, but don't mind a TV on board. It has no reflection of what I need to escape insanity, nor does it have anything to do with the quality or maintenance of the boat.

My absolute best escape is windsurfing, nothing but a board and sail and life jacket (suit optional). Sometimes one needs to escape the insanity of boating.

To each his own.

Again, depends on if the boat is a day/weekend/vacation item or a full time home. Ruling a boat out because it was someone's full time domicile, and equipped accordingly, seems awfully silly to me.

Greetings,
"...because it was someone's full time domicile...seems awfully silly to me." I agree 100%. EVERY boat is a compromise either in layout or condition. As has been mentioned, you may have to up your $$ limit to find your boat.

At the $$ point you are looking at there will be far fewer vessels available in the condition you are willing to accept. Rather than getting frustrated, try to focus on what YOU can do with a messy boat with the right layout.

Seevee said:

Caption,

that kind of seller is not motivated. You want the guy that is, regardless of clean or dirty... but dirty (not horribly so), but just not cleaned up well with a motivated seller smells discount.

Also, nice smells also include:
Owners that are tired of making slip payments, or
Owners that have two boats, or
Owners that need to move to be with their mistress, or
Owners that need to sell to have the money to feed their kids.....
Or like Donna did, Owners that are dead... generally estates want to get rid of stuff and don't want to dicker.

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Then go seek out one of those "jewels".

For me, a nasty, filthy unmaintained boat is a deal killer.

And the point of the OP was commenting on how badly owners present their boats when trying to sell them. It's marketing 101, good quality photos, and lots of them make a difference in attracting potential customers. Same goes with a clean and uncluttered boat.

CaptRonn said:

Then go seek out one of those "jewels".

For me, a nasty, filthy unmaintained boat is a deal killer.

And the point of the OP was commenting on how badly owners present their boats when trying to sell them. It's marketing 101, good quality photos, and lots of them make a difference in attracting potential customers. Same goes with a clean and uncluttered boat.

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"Then go seek out one of those "jewels""

FWIW - I have been successful seeking out SeeVee's types of jewels on my last 4 boats. They all turned out to be really great boats and very good deals.
Real boats real examples....
1. Successful business man who lost interest in his open checkbook baby and had his brother in law living on it.
2. Struggling business person who left the boat on the hard 2 years under a gypsum belt on the Hudson - a wonderful boat.
3. Retired Sheriff who hardly used the boat but had his daughter living on the boat during the sales process.
4. Bought a 'toy' from a very well off Business person whos factory was in PR and home in Fla. The boat had minor damage from towing but his reps were too lazy to fix it or even clean the boat.

All great boats - all really good deals - 3 of them had multiple TV's in them as well.

After reading this thread, it is my opinion that there are those that have the ability and the want to take on a project boat, and those who ether do not have the skill set or the want to take on that project.
If you have the skill set and the want, you will be getting a boat that in the end is YOUR boat.
Otherwise IMHO it will just be a boat you own.

What is the obsession with a television? It has been mentioned in a couple of threads now by the OP.

smitty477 said:

"Then go seek out one of those "jewels""

FWIW - I have been successful seeking out SeeVee's types of jewels on my last 4 boats. They all turned out to be really great boats and very good deals.
Real boats real examples....
1. Successful business man who lost interest in his open checkbook baby and had his brother in law living on it.
2. Struggling business person who left the boat on the hard 2 years under a gypsum belt on the Hudson - a wonderful boat.
3. Retired Sheriff who hardly used the boat but had his daughter living on the boat during the sales process.
4. Bought a 'toy' from a very well off Business person whos factory was in PR and home in Fla. The boat had minor damage from towing but his reps were too lazy to fix it or even clean the boat.

All great boats - all really good deals - 3 of them had multiple TV's in them as well.

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Again, go back and read the OP of this thread, it's about presentation of a boat for sale. Simple Marketing 101.

Actually I think all of the OP’s threads have been about tv’s. Hmm, kinda ironic.

CaptRonn said:

Again, go back and read the OP of this thread, it's about presentation of a boat for sale. Simple Marketing 101.

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All four boats were dirty and were presented poorly....

smitty477 said:

All four boats were dirty and were presented poorly....

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When selling your boats, do you leave them filthy and cluttered?

CaptRonn said:

When selling your boats, do you leave them filthy and cluttered?

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No - this thread is about purchasing boats not selling boats. That is what my posts are about - purchasing boats.

"For me, a nasty, filthy unmaintained boat is a deal killer."

FWIW - you would have missed out on all four of my last boats purchased with this 'rule' in place.

smitty477 said:

No - this thread is about purchasing boats not selling boats. That is what my posts are about - purchasing boats.

"For me, a nasty, filthy unmaintained boat is a deal killer."

FWIW - you would have missed out on all four of my last boats purchased with this 'rule' in place.

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So you like crappy boats when you buy....good for you.

As far as my rules are concerned, they apply for me, and I'm good with that.

CaptRonn said:

So you like crappy boats when you buy....good for you.

As far as my rules are concerned, they apply for me, and I'm good with that.

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Please read the posts - they are not crappy boats they are great boats that have been neglected for short periods of time. Low hours with great engines and a bit of dirt with maybe a few things needed top be actually fixed. On each one the hours were very low and the mains and genset as well as things like A/C and most 'costly' items were barely used.
Great boats and very good deals -
1 38 Bayliner
2 45 Bayliner
3 24 Nautica RIBCAT
4 47 Bayliner

These are not the only boats I have owned just the last four that were above 20'.
After many seasons of 'fun' use they were sold and were perfectly clean and maintained at that time. At that point they would clearly fit into your search list criteria.

Yes to me Presentation = superficial appearance

Definitely a red flag that due diligence on the actually important stuff needs to be a bit more thorough

But a great opportunity to get a bargain if that all checks out, lower competition since so many potential prospects like the OP judge by the skin deep

A "TV", that is a screen to display off a HTPC, is so easy to install complete nothing burger. Broadcast reception is of zero interest to me.

We all have a different method assessing boat value.

Things that don't add value in my eyes, but others may like them

- Fluffy matching cushions and pillows
- "it comes complete with dishes and cutlery"
- TV screens of any type
- security systems

We all have our own reasons for owning a boat. Find one and make it yours.

AusCan said:

We all have a different method assessing boat value.

Things that don't add value in my eyes, but others may like them

- Fluffy matching cushions and pillows
- "it comes complete with dishes and cutlery"
- TV screens of any type
- security systems

We all have our own reasons for owning a boat. Find one and make it yours.

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I think there are two issues here;
1) What items/features in a boat would cause you to be willing to pay more for the boat,
2) What items/features in a boat would simply make you more interested in that particular boat.

As my wife went through the buying process relatively recently, we approached it this way;

1. What can we afford?
2. What type of boat (Pilothouse, sedan, displacement vs SD, fly-bridge or no, walk around decks or not etc...?
3. What specific model of boat? ie which specific boat do we think meets the first criterion the best?
4. Are there examples of that model, at that price, in our region, that appeal to us?

It is at #4 where things like amenities, condition, features help us choose between boats. Give us two identical boats but one is dirty and the other is clean, we would choose the clean one (assuming purchase price was equal). That doesn't mean I would write off a boat that was dirty. An electric crane was on our boat. That wasn't a "must have" but it helped us pick this boat others. It had a poor choice of anchor, that didn't mean we would walk from the boat.

Our boat was owned by a wealthy seller. He was able to afford to have the boat regularly washed, so it happened to looked nice. The owner also had Parkinson's disease. If he didn't have the money, the boat would have been very dirty since he wouldn't have been able to clean it himself.

For sure, a well presented boat is going to get the attention of all who look through her, while a poorly presented boat is simply forgettable. If I was the seller, I would be trying to get the interest of the potential purchaser by whatever means reasonable.
As a purchaser, however, I look for all of the things that are high on my own list of necessaries, and can ignore stuff that might turn away the crowds, but is really of little value to me.
In the purchase of Retreat, the first time I saw her, she had been sitting outdoors, unloved, for at least two years. The varnish had not been touched, the deck coverings had been neglected, the boat smelled badly of cigarette smoke, but otherwise was clean, with a very well maintained ER. In the same time, I looked at another similarly priced boat that was clean, stink free, with Bristol condition varnish, but lacked some of the amenities and size that I wanted.
Because I was able to clean and varnish, I knew the issues that sent away most of the prospective customers were easy to overcome, I made a low offer which was accepted, and am convinced that I got very good value for my money by doing so.
Someone else who is frequently here on TF, who prized the showing appearance higher than I, bought the other one and he too is still happy that he did.

dhays said:

...Our boat was owned by a wealthy seller. He was able to afford to have the boat regularly washed, so it happened to looked nice. The owner also had Parkinson's disease. If he didn't have the money, the boat would have been very dirty since he wouldn't have been able to clean it himself.

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Look for good beyond poor presentation. Is it a good boat others overlooked failing to see the boat under the mess, or a mess through and through? Stunning presentation may be no more than the clever superficial detailing of a poor vessel for sale.

mramoo said:

After reading this thread, it is my opinion that there are those that have the ability and the want to take on a project boat, and those who ether do not have the skill set or the want to take on that project.
If you have the skill set and the want, you will be getting a boat that in the end is YOUR boat.
Otherwise IMHO it will just be a boat you own.

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Moo,

First, EVERY BOAT is a project to some degree. Any new boat will require something and later on, something else and it never ends.

The real value boats are creampuffs under a layer of dirt because the guy just didn't clean and, and good washing and throwing out the junk is not hard.

It it's a REAL project, like MAJOR time in refurbishing, and stuff that needs replacement, rebuilding, repairs..... that's a different circumstance and fine for some folks. Not for me.

My goal is the figure out what it would cost me to write a check to the folks that would bring the boat up to my specs and add that to the purchase price and then make a decision to buy. Sometimes it works and sometimes not. My labor is not free.

CaptRonn said:

Then go seek out one of those "jewels".

For me, a nasty, filthy unmaintained boat is a deal killer.

And the point of the OP was commenting on how badly owners present their boats when trying to sell them. It's marketing 101, good quality photos, and lots of them make a difference in attracting potential customers. Same goes with a clean and uncluttered boat.

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Every boat, car, plane or house that I buy is one of those "jewels". Different numbers, but the cost of what I buy is the purchase price, plus what it costs for the fix or rehab, without my labor. I've done a number of such deals and can't thing of a bad one. Just some better than others.

Moby Nick said:

My son just recently bought the 28' Yawl I owned for 18 years before switching to the Albin-25 ten years ago. Son bought her cheap at Rockport, TX due to damage in Harvey and we towed he back to Milwaukee. The Hurricane damage is not serious and fairly easily repairable, however, it appears that NONE of the three owners subsequent to me ever did much maintenance. The boat is just plain grungy throughout. We were lucky that the original trailer put under the boat in 1987 was able to make the trip, because it is now headed for a junk yard. That trailer had been entirely road-worthy when I sold her to a buyer in Louisiana facing a 1000-mile trip home from Illinois ten years ago.

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I love hearing about a family boat returning to the family. A very good friend recently purchased the family boat he grew up learning to sail. It's a beautiful passage making vessel that he renamed "Full Circle". Great name, IMO.

markpierce said:

My purpose to boat is to escape the insanity. (No reflection on the election night.) Have no TV onboard, and only one TV at the dirt home and no reason to apologize for same..

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I certainly never meant for anyone to apologize for having a different perspective. Also, I was not replying to you, I was replying to geoleo who said, "TV is a disease and you have it. Sorry"

Well, here’s my rant, a couple of questions, and big lessons learned.

Is an owner required to disclose known issues?
How much should a broker know/learn about a boat he’s marketing?

We inquired about a boat through our buyers broker. We had a list of questions about the boat that she submitted to the selling broker. The owner had only owned the boat about two years. He’s selling supposedly due to health reasons. They provided a copy of the survey they had done when they bought the boat. No red flag from that. The boat has Detroit Diesels and we learned that in the last year one of the engines had to be completely rebuilt. They provided a detailed receipt for the work. Nothing was said about the other engine. The ad listed cruising speed and max speed and silly us, we thought if they included the information it was because they knew it to be accurate. We made the 3.5 hr trip to go and look at the boat. The exterior of the boat was immaculate. The engine room was clean and well organized. There were a few interior issues we had concerns about and we asked the broker about them and he didn’t know but wrote down a list of questions to ask the owner. He got back with us and we were satisfied with the answers. We put in an offer on the boat and it was accepted. We then had the survey, mechanical survey, haul out, and sea trial. The survey was mostly ok. A few small things that we could have negotiated about. But the mechanic found some things of concern with the engine that had not been rebuilt. Something prompted him to call the mechanic who had done the rebuild on the other engine and he learned in speaking to him that he had recommended at the time that the second engine be rebuilt also. We also learned that the owner had intended to do just that once he got to Florida (they were going to be doing the loop). Only they never made it to Florida due to health issues. In the haul out, we learned that there was a decent area of delamination. During the sea trial, the boat did not perform anywhere near what was advertised. When hubby asked the owner about the performance, he said he had no idea that it wouldn’t run as it should have because he never ran it like that. He basically ran it only at trawler speeds. The whole thing was a huge disappointment. The oil analysis came back bad as we suspected it was going to. It was estimated that the boat needed about $50-60k of work to get the engines in good shape and still no guarantee that it would perform as WE expected it to. We walked away from the boat.
My beef is that we spent and lost $3k to learn what the owner did know or should have known and should have disclosed. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad we learned what we learned and were able to walk away, but it still makes me mad. I guess I’m more honest than that and my conscious wouldn’t allow me to do that. Hubby on the other hand gives the owner a little more benefit of the doubt. He thinks he just didn’t know any better. He met the man and I didn’t so I suppose that’s fair.

Now we have a contract on another boat of the same make and model but 4 yrs newer. We expect this one to go better than the other one. This boat initially wasn’t on our radar because it was listed for a price well outside of our budget. When the other deal fell through, we went back to looking and this one popped up on our search now in our budget. We had our broker inquire about it and we learned that it was now owned by a broker who had taken it in on trade. The previous owner had it priced way too high and when it didn’t sell, he decided to just trade it in. We knew this time to ask specifically about the boats performance. The broker provided us with a spreadsheet of performance data that he himself collected during a sea trial. This boat has Volvo D-12’s instead of the Detroit’s. In order to value it for trade, he had a survey done and had his mechanics go through the engines top to bottom. He gave us a copy of the oil analysis. He was up front about the condition of the boat. He told us it will need a bottom job soon and that the hull needs to be buffed and waxed. He told us all the things he was doing. Hubby flew to Florida to see the boat. The exterior isn’t in quite as good of condition as the other boat was, but it’s not in bad condition. Hubby described it like this....if the other boats exterior condition was a 9, then this one is a 7. We have surveys, haul out, and sea trial next Friday.

Anyhow, that’s my rant and where we are now. Hopefully next Friday, we’ll be setting a closing date for our new boat! Keeping my fingers crossed.

Good Luck Star!!

Good luck with this one. As a general rule, I tend to ascribe to things to ignorance rather than malice. The broker needs to disclose anything they know about the boat, and the owner should disclose anything they are aware of.

I just sold my sailboat Dec 31st, 2017. It had been on the market for a 1 1/2 years. Great boat, bad market. I made sure that my broker knew everything that I knew about the boat. In the 1 1/2 years it was on the market, it developed other problems (ie the radar quit working for some reason) and we made sure that every potential buyer was made aware of that. I just assume that other sellers will be as forthcoming as I am.

Again, good luck with this next boat. I hope all goes well. My only advice, for the little it is worth, is to not stress over the last failed purchase. Look ahead. Boating is stupid expensive, even the buying of a boat. It does little good to worry about money spent on failed purchases.

If performance to stated specs is important put that requirement in your offer.

dhays said:

Good luck with this one. As a general rule, I tend to ascribe to things to ignorance rather than malice. The broker needs to disclose anything they know about the boat, and the owner should disclose anything they are aware of.

I just sold my sailboat Dec 31st, 2017. It had been on the market for a 1 1/2 years. Great boat, bad market. I made sure that my broker knew everything that I knew about the boat. In the 1 1/2 years it was on the market, it developed other problems (ie the radar quit working for some reason) and we made sure that every potential buyer was made aware of that. I just assume that other sellers will be as forthcoming as I am.

Again, good luck with this next boat. I hope all goes well. My only advice, for the little it is worth, is to not stress over the last failed purchase. Look ahead. Boating is stupid expensive, even the buying of a boat. It does little good to worry about money spent on failed purchases.

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I just gotta ask:

If boating is "... "stupid"expensive... Why does it "smart" so dang much when boat dollar$ go flying out!!?? LOL

English words have funny ways for expression.

Thanks guys and dhays you’re absolutely right. We’re looking forward and not back but reading through this thread just made me want to get that off my chest.
It’s gone. Lol

Now if something goes wrong with this one and it falls through, I’m going to cry. Lol

Boats can take a long time to sell. Add to that, more often than not its health or lifestyle changes that trigger a sale. There was likely some maintenance outstanding at the time of listing. A big ticket item in the offing might just have been the trigger event. And during the selling period that can grow significantly. What to do? Ask the owner, via the broker for a list of maintenance items, have your surveyor focus on that.

Presentation is usually easily fixed for a small money so I am not that concerned about it. But there can be big lumps of change in systems that need attention, and not just engines/gears. Some specific questions about this, with replies from the owner and not the broker, might help weed out the project boats.

There is no "duty of disclosure" I know of, in a legal sense,at least. But if an owner or broker presents a "pig`s ear" as a "silk purse" he deserves his butt kicked, and likely burns the chance of a renegotiation. But that won`t reimburse the poor buyer for the expenses and disappointment in finding out the truth.
In fairness, it is possible for an owner to honestly not know something. I`ve heard said the better boats are those that get sold a few times, because they get surveyed, and (hopefully) get fixed.
Star, I hope attempt 2 comes out better. "All that glisters is not gold"