Fresh Water in the Florida Keys

Most watermakers I've seen have been on cruising sailboats, including used regularly for freshwater washdowns.

Obviously the tiny ones don't have much tankage, but even if water is used very sparingly, that factor makes watermaking capabilites even more compelling.

Some of the more efficient DC powered units can be run from solar-only, and in fact are often wired as a more useful "excess/free load dump" after bank Absorb stage is reached, compared to a HWS or making ice.

The key to low maintenance is running them often.

I know I’m a minority, but

drb1025 said:

Watermakers are certainly expensive. If a boat purchase decision was subject to the same economic test, we wouldn’t be boating. Interesting where we all draw the line once we have a boat. Stabilizers? New electronics? It never ends. But I’ll be at the boat show later this month to find out what I didn’t know I needed, haha.

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I think a water maker is one of the best improvements a person can make to his or her boat. I see this after having spent 18 months in the Caribbean, and now altogether about eight months in the Bahamas on two separate occasions. I am currently in marsh Harbour at the Abaco beach resort. The water here test at 950 ppm Total dissolved solids. While some people are drinking this water and putting it in their boat, I refuse to do so. You can taste how poor the water is, and although I am sure it probably will not harm me, I enjoy sparkling clear ice and water that has no flavor.

So, by no means there’s a water maker a necessity, but, even if the previous owner had not installed one, I would’ve put out the money to buy one.

For those of you who are trying to stay away from civilization as long as possible, the water maker affords a chance to use water as you will, enemy to wash your boat. Most of you pioneers probably have solar which is more than adequate for running a 12 V water maker. My 12 volt system produces between 15 and 17 gallons an hour.

thanks everyone, I was looking for water, not watermakers.

plus, I am pretty dang good with boating within my means .....and when I have to go to the grocery store or stay in a marina for company 2X as frequently as needing water...getting water in the Keys should be easy enough and never cost a fraction of a watermaker...I just needed to know peoples favorites.

When I head to the Bahamas, I will reevaluate convenience and economics....I can see the diffetence.

Flagler hired my great grandfather to bring supplies to workers building his railroad to the Keys. He would bring his schooners to the mouth of the Miami River (the location of Fort Dallas) to pick up fresh water to fill the holds and take the water south to the the RR workers. You wouldn’t even put a foot in the Miami River today as you might plus up a goats head or other animal used for a sacrifice.

He also dug out Hurricane Harbor on Key Biscayne to hide his schooners from a hurricane.

That’s your history lesson for the day. There is a museum in Palm Beach that tells of his adventures (U. D. Hendrickson). That info and $8.00 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

So I'm in the water business and the notion of expensive reverse osmosis systems was replaced by inexpensive systems a decade or more ago. Calling it a "watermaker" doesn't improve its function or multiply its value by an order of magnitude. I get that what works quietly mounted on a basement wall falls apart in one storm on a boat, but that doesn't add an order of magnitude to the price either.



https://www.amazon.com/Aquatic-Life...&sr=8-15&keywords=reverse+osmosis+filter&th=1

I also get that a few hundred dollars buys a whole lot of free water; arguably more than one could ever use when it's plentiful.

So here's my angle. I've read over and over about boat folks yearning for a long, hot shower at the marina after several days on the hook. Might it be worth a few hundred dollars to have all the water you want to take that long, hot shower every night? Sure would to me. Or at least that's my take as an aspiring owner.

BandB said:

Justifying a watermaker by the cost of water is impossible. It's a device of convenience.

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A little like justifying the cost of fishing

Those appear designed to filter fresh water and require additional filtering even for NYC much less for raw ocean water. And 100 GPD isn't going to do it. These seem fine for aquariums, but I sure wouldn't trust one of them for drinking water in a boat. They are labeled correctly on your website as "Home Water Filtration Systems." No test data or detailed specs showing the level of filtration.

Sorry, when it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

High Wire said:

A little like justifying the cost of fishing

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Yes, we have a young friend who has only been fishing three years and her first time out was hooked since she caught a 300+ pound Marlin. She talks about loving to catch our dinner, then she smiles and says, "I love it even if they are the most expensive fish you can buy.'

Gordon J said:

A neighbor next to my slip at marsh Harbour is using a Rainman. I like the fact that it is modular and all the parts fit on the deck for easy access. What I don’t like is that it is very loud, thank generator when you’re standing next to it, and it has only a 20 µm pre-filter. My built in water maker, A Spectra, is much quieter but is a pain in the butt to work on because of its location on the boat. Having said that, I find it really does not require much work.

In the Bahamas, or at least in marsh Harbour, I tested the water at 950 ppm total dissolved solids. With my water maker, I am producing water with 172 1 hundred80 ppm. I like the convenience of a built-in system, I push a button and it begins making water. I can read both the output volume, salinity, and filter status by merely looking at the interface mounted on the lower helm

Overall, water production is fairly simple. I am lucky the previous owner installed such a squared away system.

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Is it the Rainman watermaker itself that is loud, or are they running it with a honda generator? One of their models comes with the generator, so maybe that is where the noise is coming from?

I'm considering a Rainman in the future. Do you see any other good/bad things about it?

Thanks

BandB said:

Sorry, when it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

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They are what they are. And RO membranes are RO membranes. Seawater would definitely have a higher rejection rate than most fresh water sources, but the membranes are the same. The difference is how rugged the housing and hose connections are in marine systems vs. home "aquarium" systems.

Will 100 gallons a day really not do it? Sounds like a problem for boats with "only" a few hundred gallons of fresh water storage.

HeadedToTexas said:

They are what they are. And RO membranes are RO membranes. Seawater would definitely have a higher rejection rate than most fresh water sources, but the membranes are the same. The difference is how rugged the housing and hose connections are in marine systems vs. home "aquarium" systems.

Will 100 gallons a day really not do it? Sounds like a problem for boats with "only" a few hundred gallons of fresh water storage.

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Show some real data. Do you even know the difference between running them in salt water and fresh? Most boats only have a few hundred gallons of fresh water storage. 100 gpd rated doesn't mean you're going to get 100 gpd and do you really intend it to be run 24/7? Is that 100 gallons a day fresh water or salt water?

from the user manual.....

"The RO Buddie should only be connected to a potable municipal or well cold water supply."

I would think the maritime community would be all over these things if they worked on sea water....havent heard a peep till niw, and the narketing strategy seems to be for only aquariums right now.

I have 15 collapsible 5-gallon water jugs I transport with the dinghy to wherever the source of freshwater is ,in Key West it's the dinghy dock at the Turtle Crawl. In Marathon it's the city Mooring field dock. Sometimes it's necessary to be a pirate and use the cover of Darkness at a marina

It’s not me, it’s the Rainman

Dougcole said:

Is it the Rainman watermaker itself that is loud, or are they running it with a honda generator? One of their models comes with the generator, so maybe that is where the noise is coming from?

I'm considering a Rainman in the future. Do you see any other good/bad things about it?

Thanks

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No, my neighbors were plugged into shore power. It is the rainman that was so noisy. Comparable to say the compressor on a power washer.

I know of no ther negative... I can tell you that the water they made was about 300 ppm total dissolved solids. My unit produces about 180 ppm with a membrane of unknown age. Also mine is DC.

And mine probably costs much more than the rainman

A little off topic and not really news to some folks, but one of the keys to cruising is conserving (water, in this case). Once you leave the dock, your boat is a "closed world of its own" until you reach the next dock. You have "X" amount of fuel, "X" amount of electrical power, "X" amount of ice, "X" amount of sewage capacity and "X" amount of water. In our case, we typically run out of ice first. One can do without the ice, but not the others.

Sail boaters often go to great extremes to conserve water. They will wash their cooking and eating utensils in sea water with just a fresh water rinse. They will climb into the sea water, get out and lather up, climb into the sea water to remove the soap and then rinse their bodies with fresh water.

Some of their conservation tactics seem extreme to power boaters but learning to conserve allows us to go longer between marina stops if that's our goal.

"Most sailboats" have *far* less than 100 gallons (800lbs!), even many designed for blue water passage making.

And if you get a watermaker appropriate for your setup all such concerns just go away.

For far less than the cost of expanding your tankage and maybe affecting your trim, seakindly ride in heavy weather, or even fatally screwing up your capsize ratio.

Of course none of which applies to a big trawler regularly visiting docks.

Watermakers designed for saltwater are a completely different market segment than those intended for filtering fresh.

It would be a challenge to add all the pre-filtering required to create a system that could handle both.

If living aboard fulltime, make sure to get your trace minerals elsewhere!

I don't know a lot about watermakers but my understanding is that they need pretty clean water to start with. That's fine in the ocean but maybe not on the AICW or inland rivers and bays.

HeadedToTexas said:

So I'm in the water business and the notion of expensive reverse osmosis systems was replaced by inexpensive systems a decade or more ago. Calling it a "watermaker" doesn't improve its function or multiply its value by an order of magnitude. I get that what works quietly mounted on a basement wall falls apart in one storm on a boat, but that doesn't add an order of magnitude to the price either.

https://www.amazon.com/Aquatic-Life...&sr=8-15&keywords=reverse+osmosis+filter&th=1

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???

Saltwater in, potable water out?

-Chris

aboatman said:

fine in the ocean but maybe not on the AICW or inland rivers and bays.

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Yes most people are sensible enough to avoid making water near coasts with large man-swarms.

Fun fact: cold waters are much more biologically active than in the tropics.

ranger42c said:

???

Saltwater in, potable water out?

-Chris

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That is the definition of a proper watermaker.

That one is for filtering tap water (should be already potable) for fish in your aquarium.

I bet the 100-gallons means tank size, not production per hour.

And IMO not even worth researching further.

Rich at Cruise RO will help you build your own from parts, but a proper unit won't save you any money for the **many** hours just the research, sourcing parts etc will take you.

Just the consumable membranes cost many hundreds, and a good pump suitable for marine use, both effective and efficient, costs ballpark a grand.

Then a good motor, lots of food-grade fittings and pipe...

And as I said, freshwater is a lot more involved if you need that as well.

There are very low gph manual systems, but a good automatic one is $3K+

Craigslist watermaker

So anybody have an opinion on this add on craigslist for a watermaker

Brand new in box complete marine watermaker $1495.00 !! See video for details.

www.SeaWaterPro.com

Interesting. Part of me thinks you get what you pay for? The pump(s) maybe a weak link. They is also no high over pressure safety valve that I saw and I don’t like trusting check valves where a couple of 2 way or 3 way bay valves would work. I like to talk to someone who has run one for a year first.

Yes I would only go with a maker thoroughly vetted and recommended by the cruising forums.

I bring up Rich@CruiseRO specifically because so many members I trust in multiple forums

have literally been raving about the guy and his products (fridge/gennies also) as long as I've been hanging out

A key point is you don't want to be locked into anyone vendor's proprietary consumables, especially the membrane$.

Rich's systems are designed to be serviceable

long after he's dead and most of these companies are out of business

in remote third-world conditions, mostly with stuff you can find at generic hardware suppliers.

And yes the efficiency and longevity of the pumps are the most critical factors.

there are some nice how tos on the net on building up your own system.

every bit as good as the package deals but often much less or a little less but upgraded.

you get the pieces and parts you want and can locate them for ease on your boat versus whats given to you.

If any are well-known to be good, links would be great.

google...dont have them handy

BandB said:

Show some real data. Do you even know the difference between running them in salt water and fresh? Most boats only have a few hundred gallons of fresh water storage. 100 gpd rated doesn't mean you're going to get 100 gpd and do you really intend it to be run 24/7? Is that 100 gallons a day fresh water or salt water?

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While I may be a trawler noob, I've been in the water treatment business for going on 40 years. Thanks for asking. While some appliances seem to have a lot of crossover between home and marine applications, I don't see much in the RO industry. Given the replies thus far, I suspect few if any have looked into it. RO manufacturers have and probably realize they can charge ten times more if they call it a "watermaker," beef up the fittings and mount it on a stainless back plate.

And no, I don't find much data. I do know that I've used RO in well water applications with salt intrusion where the TDS was approaching 10,000 ppm. Brackish in terms of seawater, but in the same order of magnitude. Permeate flow and rejection rate would certainly be lower, but the real problem may be creating the pressure needed to produce any permeate at all.

Reducing the number of things hanging off one's engine seems to be a rule of thumb, but adding another belt driven water pump could provide the pressure. Making water while under way would mean time is on your side. Seems like a missed opportunity.

HeadedToTexas said:

While I may be a trawler noob, I've been in the water treatment business for going on 40 years. Thanks for asking. While some appliances seem to have a lot of crossover between home and marine applications, I don't see much in the RO industry. Given the replies thus far, I suspect few if any have looked into it.

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Or actually read the manual seeing that the product you're pushing is inappropriate for our use. What is your role in all this? Are you a salesman or owner or what? You didn't disclose the affiliation from what I could tell. Here you are pushing an aquarium and home faucet system to supply a trawler in the ocean.

Steady, B. I have no affiliation with any manufacturer and I am not pushing products; are you? I did a quick search on Amazon for a generic prefab RO unit as an example from that market segment of the RO industry. I am simply a guy who hopes to one day buy a boat. I am also a guy who likes to take a shower every night. And I'm a guy who has showered in enough campground showers to know I'd rather shower in my own than in a public one.

I have read here on many threads that among the benefits cruisers look forward to during marina stays are long hot showers. An expensive watermaker doesn't seem economically practical for coastal cruising (Florida being the subject here), but a system priced more in line with the application may be worth the effort, at least to me. Simple as that.