Cruise.....

Wxx3 said:

I'm a New Yorker. I LOVE New Yorkers. But most NYers who watch that know what the deal is. Be on tv, the check will be in the mail. They want a free trip out of it.

Sure the wx was rough and I'm sure pitching and rolling for those who expect a cruise ship to be a floating hotel/casino.
That's how it's sold and that's what they get 98% of the time.

I'd love to know the real roll was. You'd think someone would have downloaded the Clinometer app.

As for the 30' waves. What can i say.

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One of the videos shows a guy with an incline app, he used the top of a stair railing I believe...it showed 9 degrees list.

firstbase said:

I'm not a lawyer/legal action type and believe that in many if not most cases you-know-what happens, deal with it. I gotta say though that after watching the video I can't blame anyone on that ship who takes some sort of action. Gross negligence comes to mind and I would think that no matter how used to the sea you are that trip could easily change you. People go on a cruise for fun not to be traumatized.

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Agree. There are only 2 ways. Legal action: will stop companies from doing crazy things if punitive enough. Government action: and we all know where that ends up. The fly in the ointment is the cost & pace of the legal process which dissuades the proper use of the legal system and indirectly causes government intervention by idiots causing unintended consequences.

I think very few of us here are capable of appreciating how it was for the passengers. We're boaters. Most of them are not. Many of them would never think of going out in our boats. If they were scared, then they were scared regardless of whether we would have been. Certainly these were not situations on board that regular cruisers had ever experienced. If you know nothing about boats or cruise ships, then feeling the boat is taking on water in your mind would be frightening.

These are supposed to be cruises for pleasure and I've seen many times cruise ships sailed knowing they'd have to vary course or stop quickly, simply because that secures the revenue. Also, the reports of poor communication are what has regularly been reported on all "cruise events" from norovirus to waste system failures to engine failures or A/C problems. Then typically the compensation does nothing for the passengers toward making them whole. They compensate in ways that cost them nothing.

Really, we're all speculating. I've been on a cruise ship when it was rough enough that they stowed all the booze in latching cabinets at the bars, and the majority were seasick. Nobody I heard of demanded their money back.

Beyond that, I can't say. My only reason to pin at least some of the blame on the cruise line is that they just don't seem to prepare (except for the booze, of course!) Pools should have been drained, anything movable should have been bolted or strapped down, or stowed. There should have been a contingency plan for serving food when silverware, plates and bowls won't stay put.

I'm guessing that everyone on this forum has a routine for preparing to get underway, and a more rigorous routine for when foul weather or heavy seas are possible. Is that too much to ask of a cruise line?

Quote from the 1st Engr on a tanker I have always remembered in regards to carrying passengers verses cargo; “Oil doesn’t talk back”.

From what I hear, working on a tanker is probably an easier gig than most jobs on a cruise ship. Pretty severe work environment.

Northern Spy said:

Just another example of the wussification of the world. Well, western culture, at least.

Quite possibly the only time I would consider paying to go on a cruise ship, would be if they guaranteed adverse weather.

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I only have experience with 1 cruise line, but on our ships the officers that ran the ship had no interaction with the passengers. The Master would eat dinner with a select group and take a photo on "formal night" but that was about it.

It was like there were two totally seperate heirarchy's of employees. One dealt with all things nautical and mechanical, and the other dealt with all aspects of the passenger experience. There was very little communication or fraternizing between the groups.

The cruise line needs to keep in mind that many of their passengers may not be in the best of health or in top physical condition. An 80 or 90 year old passenger may well be terrified of events that a 30 yo might find exciting. The cruise line needs to keep passengers informed and comforted through a display of calmness and good communications. There are passengers with walkers, wheelchairs and scooters. If you allow them onboard you have a responsibility to keep them safe both physically and mentally.

After reading all posts - I watched the video. OMG... poor, poor people, such traumas! I live under the premise of you can't take he game, don't suit up! Again, such traumas!! Poor, poor people.

hmason said:

The cruise line needs to keep in mind that many of their passengers may not be in the best of health or in top physical condition. An 80 or 90 year old passenger may well be terrified of events that a 30 yo might find exciting. The cruise line needs to keep passengers informed and comforted through a display of calmness and good communications. There are passengers with walkers, wheelchairs and scooters. If you allow them onboard you have a responsibility to keep them safe both physically and mentally.

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To a certain extent... I agree with you Howard.

Perhaps I was a bit too crass in post 40.

However, I must repeat... If you can't take the game... then don't suit up. That includes all persons at all ages and in all conditions.

Benthic2 said:

I only have experience with 1 cruise line, but on our ships the officers that ran the ship had no interaction with the passengers. The Master would eat dinner with a select group and take a photo on "formal night" but that was about it.

It was like there were two totally seperate heirarchy's of employees. One dealt with all things nautical and mechanical, and the other dealt with all aspects of the passenger experience. There was very little communication or fraternizing between the groups.

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This is true, but as a Deck or Engine officer you are still on a ship crammed with thousands of people. A walk on deck of a cargo ship after your shift, you can find some peace and quiet. Not so on a cruise ship. Just different animals and both have + and -.

The crew may also have under estimated the effect the weather would have on such a new, large ship. 1,063 feet and 147,000 tons is A LOT of ship.

I suspect that the staff made announcements and people didn't hear or heed them.

Oh Art, I am sure their are environments in which you have no experience that would scare you #$%less while more experienced people laughed their a$$ off at you. Little harsh on those cruisers aren't you?

firstbase said:

Oh Art, I am sure their are environments in which you have no experience that would scare you #$%less while more experienced people laughed their a$$ off at you. Little harsh on those cruisers aren't you?

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See my post 41. I already backed off - somewhat. Still... I you [or I] can't take the game then don't suit up!

Benthic2 said:

I suspect that the staff made announcements and people didn't hear or heed them.

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History says there were few if any announcements and the ones there were really didn't provide the needed information. Now, this time could have been different.

Art said:

See my post 41. I already backed off - somewhat. Still... I you [or I] can't take the game then don't suit up!

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Art,
I have been on many cruises. I've cruised the Caribbean, Bahamas, Panama Canal, Alaska and more. The folks I meet on cruises know squat about ships, boats or the sea. They are there for a cool vacation. They've watched the tv commercials and read the brochures. They see all the smiling faces and ripple free waters.They ARE suited up for the game as it has been presented to them.

You will never see a cruise ad showing rough seas, howling winds and water sloshing out of a swimming pool, glasses and dishes flying around the cabin and passengers, turning green. The cruise line owes the passengers communications and reassurance.

hmason said:

Art,
I have been on many cruises. I've cruised the Caribbean, Bahamas, Panama Canal, Alaska and more. The folks I meet on cruises know squat about ships, boats or the sea. They are there for a cool vacation. They've watched the tv commercials and read the brochures. They see all the smiling faces and ripple free waters.They ARE suited up for the game as it has been presented to them.

You will never see a cruise ad showing rough seas, howling winds and water sloshing out of a swimming pool, glasses and dishes flying around the cabin and passengers, turning green. The cruise line owes the passengers communications and reassurance.

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Very simply the passengers didn't buy in to what they got. You can say they should have known, but the cruise lines don't want them to. They don't announce they're about to leave port but it could be an extremely rough trip as there is a potential storm.

hmason said:

Art,
I have been on many cruises. I've cruised the Caribbean, Bahamas, Panama Canal, Alaska and more. The folks I meet on cruises know squat about ships, boats or the sea. They are there for a cool vacation. They've watched the tv commercials and read the brochures. They see all the smiling faces and ripple free waters.They ARE suited up for the game as it has been presented to them.

You will never see a cruise ad showing rough seas, howling winds and water sloshing out of a swimming pool, glasses and dishes flying around the cabin and passengers, turning green. The cruise line owes the passengers communications and reassurance.

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firstbase said:

I'm not a lawyer/legal action type and believe that in many if not most cases you-know-what happens, deal with it. I gotta say though that after watching the video I can't blame anyone on that ship who takes some sort of action. Gross negligence comes to mind and I would think that no matter how used to the sea you are that trip could easily change you. People go on a cruise for fun not to be traumatized.

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Not a lawyer? Do you play one on TV?

A certain obliviousness over takes people when they get on the ship. I have had people complain that they missed their meal because no one told them, that they didn't go ashore because they didn't realize we had docked, and I swear to God, I have had people ask "what time is the midnight buffet ?" People skip the mandatory life boat drill and ask why there are life jackets in their cabin. The ship's staff does have an obligation to keep people informed, but people also have to put some effort into it as well. People turn off the PA system in their room, skip the informational talks, don't look at the "cruise news" that gets slid under their door and then complain that no one told them anything.

I will admit that I am biased in this discussion, but a lot of my bias is based on first hand experience. I would be willing to bet that there were anounements about the weather, and access to open decks was restricted. All sorts of activities would have been cancelled ( which would have been announced ), and that there was an information desk staffed 24/7 that could have told them anything they needed.

I place these two video in good humor... as I believe there were no causalities on the video with customer complains that began this thread. If there were I apologize for my attempt at a bit of humor! And, I wish all well!!

Fletcher500 said:

This is true, but as a Deck or Engine officer you are still on a ship crammed with thousands of people. A walk on deck of a cargo ship after your shift, you can find some peace and quiet. Not so on a cruise ship. Just different animals and both have + and -.

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Found lots of peace and quiet on cruise ships, especially while in port. Usually, the ship is my destination. ... Most of my book reading occurs on cruise ships.

South of Heaven said:

Not a lawyer? Do you play one on TV?

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Ha! No...but I did take the LSAT back in the day....does that count for anything???

firstbase said:

Ha! No...but I did take the LSAT back in the day....does that count for anything???

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Wifey B: He took the LSAT but he didn't get to first base. Sorry

We book the stern because we want to feel the roll and vibration from the props. Best sleep I get. Been on enough (20) cruises to know weather can change and get rough. Love to pass Hatteras when there’s a nice rough chop. Have video in 60mph wind with a nice list and 15+ footers. Not our worst seas, but the ride was great.

People forget they’re in the ocean. Weather and waves are there too.

BandB said:

Wifey B: He took the LSAT but he didn't get to first base. Sorry

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Oh man....weak sauce on that one My career got me involved in a couple of legal areas which I enjoyed so I considered law school. Considered it enough to study for and take the LSAT but ended up passing on school and going another route. For the record Little Miss Wifey, I did pretty well on the LSAT. Interesting test, not based on ANY knowledge whatsoever just logic and comprehension. Wasn't going to Harvard but good enough to get in the more reasonable schools. Was actually pretty proud of that as it is a $%^& of a test.

firstbase said:

Oh man....weak sauce on that one My career got me involved in a couple of legal areas which I enjoyed so I considered law school. Considered it enough to study for and take the LSAT but ended up passing on school and going another route. For the record Little Miss Wifey, I did pretty well on the LSAT. Interesting test, not based on ANY knowledge whatsoever just logic and comprehension. Wasn't going to Harvard but good enough to get in the more reasonable schools. Was actually pretty proud of that as it is a $%^& of a test.

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Wifey B: I was just using your name/id here to laugh. I'm sure you did well. I went to school with people taking the LSAT and dealing with so many unknowns school by school, state my state. My required tests were much less difficult, I believe. (GRE)

Actually the tough one for me was taking the SAT six years after I dropped out of high school. Now the easiest and fastest for me was MAT.

Having an inside cabin, mid-ship and on a lower deck minimizes the perception of rough weather.

BandB said:

Wifey B: I was just using your name/id here to laugh. I'm sure you did well. I went to school with people taking the LSAT and dealing with so many unknowns school by school, state my state. My required tests were much less difficult, I believe. (GRE)

Actually the tough one for me was taking the SAT six years after I dropped out of high school. Now the easiest and fastest for me was MAT.

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Well I may have done ok on the test but I have decided, after the fact, that I would have made a really lousy lawyer. As for you taking the SAT 6 years after High School? I can't imagine. Don't think I would like to give that a try. You have done very well and seem to be a happy soul so the road you took ends up being a wise one. Funny how that works..