Bent Rudder

I have an accepted offer in on a 2006 34T, but haven't finalized the deal yet.
The rudder is bent about 3/4 inch to starboard.
It looks like the rudder was hard over when a previous skipper backed the boat into something other than water.
We sea trialled the boat and it didn't appear to affect steering; the boat turns easily lock to lock, no binding.
When looking below, there were lots of spider cracks in the prop tunnel near the lower flange, and it appears there has been a bit of water intrusion through one of the four flange bolts (not sure if flange is the correct term here).

My questions are:
1) Should a rudder bent by 3/4 inch be a concern. Can I run that way indefinitely, or will the rudder shaft need to be straightened? Is that an expensive proposition, over-and-above haul-out costs.

2) Should I be concerned about the integrity of the fiberglass under where the gelcoat has the spider cracks? How can I be sure the fiberglass is ok? The surveyor basically just said keep an eye on it.

Any thoughts/ideas greatly appreciated!

I’ve had a prop and shaft shop straighten rudder posts that were far more than 3/4” off true.

Does it need to be done though, if not appearing to interfere with steering?

My question is what the hell did it hit what are the prop shafts and props like ?

The prop and shaft appear to be ok. Based on the bend, my guess would be the boat lightly "bumped" something going backwards and the rudder was the only casualty. I'm just guessing, because I don't have access to the previous owners.

If the shaft is bent it may not doing the gland any favors. Fix it next haulout?

I would contact a prop shop. The better ones can straighten shafts and should have no problem straightening a bent rudder. I'm guessing they will give you an estimate over the phone.

Should you do it? I would. In the process, I would pull the rudder through hull bearing tube. Check the tube, fiberglass surrounding it, and mounting hardware. Reassemble everything and make sure there are no leaks.

Why should you do it? If for no other reason, peace of mind.

One final thought. Most insurance companies will require a copy of the survey before insuring the boat. Depending on how the survey reads, they may require you to rectify the problem within 30 days of purchase or worse. You may want to show the survey to perspective insurers before closing on the boat. If you are having trouble with getting insurance because of it, that may be a point for either having the owner do it or negotiating an adjustment to the price.

Ted

I would have damage repaired as a condition of sale. Owner can't bark too much because any buyer will require the same thing.

Sailor of Fortune said:

I would have damage repaired as a condition of sale. Owner can't bark too much because any buyer will require the same thing.

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+1. Any peripheral damage should be fixed by owner as well. Don't let the brokers minimize this just so they can close the deal.

My first though is, "run away'.The shaft runs true? Any visible damage to the prop? Cutlass bearing shot?

Second thought, get a yard to check the shaft for 'true' and runout.
Check the shoe. Is it bent? What about the condition of the rudder bearings?

Get a second survey (different surveyor) concentrating on the damage.
Get an estimate for the repair, schedule a time , deduct the cost from the price, get it fixed and realize, this damage history should follow the boat.
I suspect, the broker knows what happened and reluctant to tell you. That should tell you something about the broker.

As I told the selling broker more than once, 'there will always be another boat.'
You aren't 'married' to that boat yet.

If there is no rudder post leak and no binding, it certainly would not be a critical issue, IMO. Certainly could wait until scheduled haulout.
The spider cracks in gelcoat are likely stress induced; one just one side? Not familiar with "prop tunnel" other than hulls with twins.

Have your seller fix the boat and some knowledgeable person certify that the 'spider cracks' are a non-issue. You may one day wish to sell that boat.

The damage can be fixed but why should it be you?

DHeckrotte said:

Have your seller fix the boat and some knowledgeable person certify that the 'spider cracks' are a non-issue. You may one day wish to sell that boat.

The damage can be fixed but why should it be you?

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Great idea.... provided it is done by a knowledgeable yard and craftsmen.

Often 'items' are part of 'conditions to be completed prior to the sale'

I'd be more concerned with the fiberglass damage than the bent rudder stock. The rudder can be bent back. If the fiberglass & gelcoat is damaged, plus there was evidence of leaks, I would investigate the whole area a little closer.

If the boat is priced right I wouldn’t worry about a rudder that is off by 3/4”. However the next buyer is going to make “You” fix it before he buys it. If you are going to end up fixing it you should do it now so you can enjoy it while you use the boat. If you can make the current owner fix it, even better.

I would approach it with the assumption that it will need a full repair. That means haul out, drop out the rudder, straighten the shaft, repair possible other damage to the rudder (is it a glass shell, solid SS or Bronze?). I would also assume that the spider cracks will require removal of the flange, grinding back the glass to remove fractured/weak material, reglass and fare, repair to the flange itself, including possible replacement, rebedding, and reassembly of everything. That's the worst case of what this means.

With the cost of that in mind, you can then decide how you want to proceed. You could:

1) Require that the owner do the repair before you will accept the boat. This places all the risk and cost on the seller, but also may kill the deal.

2) Negotiate a price reduction, and accept the boat as-is. In this case you are assuming the risk, but if it costs less or doesn't need repair, you will be ahead - at least until the next buyer finds it and you face the situation all over again, but now as the seller rather than the buyer....

If you proceed with #2, it's your call when, if, and how extensively you actually do any repairs. There is also risk that you will get into it and find it's much worse than expected, but I tried to image worst case above. Hope I got it right or at least close....

Remember, ifs you get the current owner to contract out the work, there is the "low bid" and then there is a higher price to get the job done correctly.

Rule # 1 - The buyer controls the deal
Rule # 2 - In FL, always look for hurricane damage especially things below the water line
Rule # 3 - See Rule # 1

Thanks everyone. Given the two (accepted) price reductions the seller has already granted on the boat sale, he isn't willing to go any lower. Due to these issues, the offer is now at the point where I could put about $15K-$20K into repairs and still not be paying more than market for the boat. To be sure, I will have the whole area inspected by a qualified technician prior to purchase to ensure the work doesn't exceed that.

I've included the surveyor's pic of the rudder shaft, showing spider cracks and bolts that appear to have leaked in the past - they did not leak in the sea trial.

Seeing the color of what you call spider crack, I would get that inspected carefully.

Hi David,

You need to have the rudder post inspected more thoroughly. The upper bolts on the top mount are as much concern to me as the lower. The upper Port aft bolt is backed off about a 1/4" (far right side of photo) and the upper starboard forward bolt seems to be non-existent (if there are supposed to be 4 of them). The locking nut is backed off about a 1/2" which would effect the rudder post seal (packing gland). The "Stress cracks" are more likely what I would call "Impact Cracks" and should definitely be repaired. Go slowly on this one or be prepared to spend more money down the road.

Todd

Thats a lot of gelcoat piled up in there & that stuff is brittle. There might be some underlying damage hidden or maybe it'll just turn out to be superficial. If you're happy with everything else & prepared to move forward with the repair if it's needed, I say enjoy that new boat!

If mine, I would drill a small hole in the backing block to see if its soft wood. IOW, is that drool, wood decomp or rust.

cracks in FRP are not uniform - seems to be on the one side (explaining the rudder post bend)
Does this boat have a shoe for the rudder? I guess not.
Does it sit on the rudder at low tide?
Does not look like the force causing the cracks was from directly astern.

Solid bronze rudder, no shoe.

daviddraper said:

I've included the surveyor's pic of the rudder shaft, showing spider cracks and bolts that appear to have leaked in the past - they did not leak in the sea trial.

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Looks to me like that rudder got hit *hard*. I think those are more than just what I refer to as "spider cracks". The thru-bolts holding the rudder post housing should be parallel. Note the stbd-forward one is way out of line. That tells me the damage here is more than cosmetic.

I don't have a picture of my installation but it does NOT show this kind of damage (or any cracking in this area at all).

I'd bet you'd wind up very close to the "worst case":

twistedtree said:

I would approach it with the assumption that it will need a full repair. That means haul out, drop out the rudder, straighten the shaft, repair possible other damage to the rudder (is it a glass shell, solid SS or Bronze?). I would also assume that the spider cracks will require removal of the flange, grinding back the glass to remove fractured/weak material, reglass and fare, repair to the flange itself, including possible replacement, rebedding, and reassembly of everything. That's the worst case of what this means.

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Now I am not saying don't buy this boat, but I will point out there are a lot of 34Ts out there.

The points on the visible nuts are shiny, looks like someone has been in there already, but left the proper repair to someone down the track.

At this time, there are no 34Ts out there that fit my criteria, two of which is price and inside steering. Most of the 34Ts disappeard off the market in the past 6 months.

I will have the ruder inspected carefully prior to purchase. Thanks everyone for your observations and input. I will tread carefully on this one.

Here's a thought, take lots of pics but inside the lazarette and then, the external pics showing the damage, forward them to Kurt at AT and seek his opinion and suggestions.

I would be interested on his opinion of the inside damage. I would not call them 'spider cracks'. They look more important and possibly structural.