markpierce
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It's difficult enough to organize more than one boat to make an overnight cruise.
Washington to Mexico Caravan
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
It's difficult enough to organize more than one boat to make an overnight cruise.
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dirtdoc1
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I'm not organizing anything. If someone wants to tag along or jump in at different points that's great. If we get to know each other over the radios and decide to stop and check out a town for a while and get to know each other, great. Otherwise it's going to be take it as it comes. Kind of the way I've always done things. It drives many people nuts but seams to work for me. But, that's why I'm hiring a captain. To keep my stupid ass out of trouble.
As far as it being a slog and beating you up. I grew up on the San Francisco bay. I know it's not the ocean but there have been times on my 25' Skipjack that I didn't think I was going to make it to the harbor. The chop can get brutal here. San Pablo bay same thing. If it turns out to be a brutal slog then I may stay down in Mexico for a while. At least it's warm down there. The boat will have stabilizers so that should help.
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We in SW BC are hoping for a warm weekend in early August.
The PNW should get one then too.
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dirtdoc1
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Are you serious or pulling my leg? You must be teasing me. When I was in Washington in September it was T-shirt weather all week long. I fell in love with Washington until it snowed on Friday. Now I know why a lot of older folks move to warmer climates. I'm old.
I apologize for simply disregarding the PNW based on the temperature. I can tell how proud the locals are of the PNW and I can see why. I also understand why so many people are strongly suggesting that I stick around to cruise the PNW. I bought two books on cruising the PNW. Amazing scenery and beautiful anchorages. I'm starting to rethink the timing of my trip.
I should also mention that when I was in Washington I was surprised at how friendly and welcoming the locals were. Californians - not so much. I was born in San Francisco in 1956 and lived in the bay area all of my life. It has really changed. The road rage is down right scary. It's just too crowded. That's another reason that I'm fleeing to the sea.
The amazing thing about the San Francisco bay area besides the climate is that within an hour you can be walking the marsh lands or boating on the bay or be walking in the redwoods in the mountains with waterfalls or be on the coast. Add a few more hours and you can be skiing in Tahoe or hiking in Yosemite. Camping, riding dirt-bikes or 4 wheel driving or hunting in the Sierra's. I forgot to mention boating or duck hunting in the delta. Thousands of miles of sloughs to get lost in. There are people who have lived in the delta for 20-30 years and haven't boated all of the sloughs. I kept a campsite and tent in the redwoods all through high school. Nobody ever found it or bothered it. They are still logging the redwoods but it's selective logging which is good for the forest. There is enough land that has been purchased by the land conservancy that the redwoods and bay will always be left alone. But we need public transit infrastructure something terrible. Sorry I got a little bit off subject.
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Tunajoe
Senior Member
Dirt doc
When you make the trek down south, try and stop over in Ventura and I'll buy you a beer.
My good friend is also a Bay Area transplant from Belmont. He and his wife are live aboard on there Helmsman 38 across the harbor from me and are also planning on motoring down south in the future.
Looking forward to following your adventures.
When you make the trek down south, try and stop over in Ventura and I'll buy you a beer.
My good friend is also a Bay Area transplant from Belmont. He and his wife are live aboard on there Helmsman 38 across the harbor from me and are also planning on motoring down south in the future.
Looking forward to following your adventures.
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dirtdoc1
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Tunajoe,
I'm not going to turn down that offer! I'm stoping in Santa Barbara to visit my daughter, 30 more miles and I'm there.
Cheers
Scary
Guru
Leaving in May makes no sense. Enjoy the Pacific North West in the summer and head south in October when conditions are best. You can probably cruise south in less than two weeks in October if your hell bent in getting to Southern Ca. There is a reason there are so many boats in Washington and BC, it's probably the best cruising grounds in the US. I personally don't like the restraints of traveling with other boats.
Alaskan Sea-Duction
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Hey Doc, have fun and keep us posted and share lots of pics. I have done the trip from SF to the Columbia River Bar and from the bar to Puget Sound.
Down the coast North of SF Crescent City is the only marina that is not influenced by a river, hence no bar to cross. Good place for fuel. Have fun!!!
Down the coast North of SF Crescent City is the only marina that is not influenced by a river, hence no bar to cross. Good place for fuel. Have fun!!!
JustBob
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I grew up in the Bay Area too (born one year after you) and cut my boating teeth in the Bay as well. I'm sure you know the saying "if you can sail here, you can sail anywhere!" And there is some truth to that. But the Bay simply does not get swells - other than those that come in under the Gate. It gets a lot of chop from all the wind. And it is cold and miserable. Good prep!
Being out in the Pacific with big swells for days on end is really another matter entirely. There's no "getting in the lee of Angel Island."
The NP website shows the 45 weighs 34,000# dry. IMHO that is a very light boat for the Pacific. She who must not be underestimated.
[FYI all my Pacific ocean miles (about 6,000) are in a 70 full displacement trawler that weighs 220,000# - 110 tons.]
Still, I admire your verve and love of water and travel. I'm with the others that believe the PNW is the premier cruising ground in the USA. Yes, the wx is not FL nor Mexico, but that's why we have nice warm/dry boats.
Those recommending heading south from the PNW in September know what they are talking about. The run south at that time of year is easily the best weather/wave window. Mexico is freaking hot in the summer, it's definitely a winter playground.
I have been out in the Pacific when it is as calm as Lake Chabot. And when we had 15 foot swells 10 seconds apart and the other four people were too sick to really stand watch.
I would say:
1. Keep your plans totally flexible. We often had to spend a week in a small town (Coos Bay, Eureka, etc) to wait for decent wx in order to continue.
2. Know your options for getting out of the ocean at all times, and if in doubt, head in. Getting stuck with a closed bar in Oregon is a nightmare.
3. Learn to read and use GRIB weather data so you can really be your own weatherman. If you can feel confident about the weather ahead of you, you know how to manage #1 and #2.
And have fun! It's a great adventure.
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dirtdoc1
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dirtdoc1
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I bought the boat to cruise the coast. Are you guys telling me that I can only cruise the coast in September??
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Fletcher500
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I think the advice given from people is generally very good. That picture of the boat heeled over sums up the Pacific well. I have not done the run in a small boat, but I have clear memories of running up and down the coast (SF - LA) on a tanker many years ago, and it was worse than anything I had experienced in other parts of the world (except for the Gulf of Teahuantepec). The wind and swell north of Pt. Conception ramps up amazingly quick. I also plan on running up the coast, hopefully all the way to BC when we retire, but personally I would only do the exposed portion of the run between July and September, and with a boat saavy friend not my wife who would meet me at the end points. In any event, I think your plans to get out and travel are great. Some risk is required for the rewards, and we only get one shot at this.
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Don't let them get to you. There are many good weather openings throughout the year, just more sometimes than others. Not many here regularly cruise the coast but as long as you're prepared to duck in, spend a few days at port, and remain conscious of conditions and developing conditions it can be done.
What you're being told is that most people cruise the PNW in the summer, then in late summer/early fall go down the coast, but certainly not the only way.
The West Coast isn't as friendly for cruising the coast as the East Coast, but we enjoyed it. The other thing you're being told is that most when cruising the coast get pleasure out of the destinations along the way, not the 24/7 multi day cruises as much. You'll find what brings you pleasure and then it won't matter what makes others happy, just you and those with you. Just your idea of a caravan falls apart quickly as others do not want to do as you did.
Hopefully over the years you'll cruise up and down many times and you'll like some better than others and figure it all out.
You need to have proper respect for the coast. On the other hand, there are many here who seldom if ever venture out to the coast and don't take the kind of trip you're planning, and have a fear of it, you need to avoid. In our brief time on the west coast we learned to respect it, we learned to deal with huge swells we seldom see on the East Coast, we learned about all the bars, but we also heard exaggerations that we just found overstated. There's no stretch along the coast that if you see a system rapidly developing for tomorrow or the next day that you can't find safety today.
Fletcher500
Guru
BB, just curious, did you travel between SF and Pt. Conception between the months of Nov and April? If yes, what size boat were you on?
Traveled between Kodiak, AK and Ensenada between April and January. Various size boats from 85' up but do a lot of small boat cruising so well aware of the conditions that would impact smaller boats more. Was not on a trawler or full displacement boat. SF to LA was November, leaving SF on November 8. By the time we reached SF we were quite familiar with the differences of west coast seas and conditions. Had some days along the way that we stayed in port. SF to LA we had beautiful conditions. LA to Catalina we had nice, although not quite as pleasant on the return. LA for us was actually Marina Del Rey to be precise. My comments here are not based on the boats we were on, but a boat the size of yours or the OP's. Can be done, can be dangerous, can be easy. Precautions can be taken like anywhere.
Off the coast of Washington and BC and Alaska we did encounter seas I wouldn't recommend in your boat or the OP's and it's possible to encounter them anywhere on the coast. Also, a lot of very nice days. Just don't get tied to a schedule. You go when the going is good.
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dirtdoc1
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Alaskan Sea-Duction
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Looks like my boat crossing Dixon Entrance. We do not have stabilizers....
JustBob
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Stabilizers are just going to take the edge off that ride. They don't change the conditions. Don't think of them as magic, plus they can fail too.
I don't imagine the captain of that boat would choose to repeat that voyage.
Fletcher500
Guru
Regarding those pics- No thank you. 20 years ago - Yahoo.
Good point on the Stab's. Also, a Seakeeper (Gyro) will do nothing for fore and aft pitching (only roll is dampened).
Can the active fins also dampen pitch?
Good point on the Stab's. Also, a Seakeeper (Gyro) will do nothing for fore and aft pitching (only roll is dampened).
Can the active fins also dampen pitch?
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dirtdoc1
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I appreciate that Brand.
It sounds a bit more sensible and realistic to me. It's not like I haven't ventured beyond the Golden Gate. I've been up north towards Mendocino to fish for salmon. I've been out a few times. But that's the farthest I've been. As you enter the Bay there is a bar called the potato patch because of the confused seas that it creates. You learn how to get around it. That's why I hired a captain for the trip. He knows the coast. He also would not do it before May, which indicates to me that he's a careful captain. He's a retired submarine chief warrant officer and he's a captain who has been up and down the coast delivering boats more times than he can remember. I think between him and I on a new stabilized NP45 with FLIR, radar, GPS and a host of other electronics and paper charts and common sense and most of all time. I think we will be just fine. I just wish we could have left last September. As soon as November comes round I'm taking her home to Redwood City. Unfortunately I have to keep her out of CA for one year. It's a tax thing that I'm sure many of you are familiar with.
Cheers!
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dirtdoc1
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Stabilizers make a huge difference and the ones that I have are Bilge Wings - passive. They don't break down. Most of the fishing boats have them and they swear by them.
JustBob
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Not to beat a dead horse clam, but it is really ALL about the weather. In the right conditions, nearly any boat can be out there.
Also, if you get into some heavy seas, be experimental. A small course change can affect the ride significantly, like 15 degrees. You can always tack like a sailboat if it makes things smoother. Ditto for speed. Once coming out of Lion's Gate in BC we were doing our standard 9.5 knots and it seemed we were going to start breaking things. Slowing to 6.5 made all the difference in the world.
Also, if you get into some heavy seas, be experimental. A small course change can affect the ride significantly, like 15 degrees. You can always tack like a sailboat if it makes things smoother. Ditto for speed. Once coming out of Lion's Gate in BC we were doing our standard 9.5 knots and it seemed we were going to start breaking things. Slowing to 6.5 made all the difference in the world.
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dirtdoc1
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The boat is going up to BC for stabilizers then down to Seattle for the show then back to Bellingham for final commissioning and survey. That should shake it out. I also want to get a supply of hoses, impellers, belts, etc. for the trip. I also ordered a 4 man life raft. I was going to get a 6 man but a captain suggested the smaller one unless I planned to cruise with more people. His explanation was that you get thrown around pretty violently and the less room the more secure. Also for body heat. I spent about $1000 on EPIRB and Ditch Bag. I bought paper charts for the entire coast because I don't trust electronics. Any other suggestions other than "don't do it"?
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dirtdoc1
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In my 25' Skipjack it took me 3 hours to get from Angel Island to the Bay Bridge once, the chop was so bad. That is typically a 15-20 minute cruise in a planing boat. I'll never forget that trip. I woke up in Angel Island cove to a nasty storm Sunday morning. My windshield wipers worked two times then died. Every time I tried to look out of the side window I would get a face full of water and wind. I had to throttle way back and just ride up the wave, which seemed to take for ever and down the wave, which went way too fast.
I used to go out on the bay during storms just for the practice. After a couple years of storm chasing on the bay I was pretty sure that my boat could take anything that the San Francisco bay could throw at her. That storm turned out to be the one that beat me.
I figured - "if I can make it to the other side of the Bay Bridge heading South the waves will calm down a bit. There were two boats on the bay that day. Mine and a huge tug that shadowed me all the way to the Bay Bridge. When I finally got to the bridge, then under it and to the South side. The waves got huge! I got to the top of the first wave then it disappeared and my boat was in the air. A blast of wind and water hit me from the side, rolling the boat on it's side in mid air! Then it came down on it's side, hit the water and started to climb the next wave. I did that three times then spotted an entrance to a marina. I ducked in to the marina and spent the night. I was wet, cold and shaking and scared. The boat didn't give up but I did.
The next day the boat wouldn't start. There was a massive electrical cord that snaked along the bilge and had a plug in the middle. There was a couple feet of slack in this cord. The boat had twisted and flexed to the point that it took up all of the slack and unplugged the cord which was the main power. I don't understand how the boat continued to run. If the motor had died I surely would have ended up on the rocks or swamped and sunk.
I used to tell people that my Skipjack could take anything the bay could throw at her. I've never said that again. About any boat or me. That day I learned a healthy respect for wind and water. When wind and water become one, things get serious.
They say that if you learn to sail on the San Francisco Bay that you can sail anywhere. I actually think that is a very stupid saying. If the San Francisco Bay can get that bad without swells. The ocean must be able to dwarf it and that scares the **** out of me.
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Scary
Guru
Bilge boards
I haven't any experience with this type of stabilizer. I do have experience with active fin stabilizers and they do an incredible job of controlling broaching. They do nothing to control pitching. Most likely the trip down the coast will be in following seas. Depending on the tracking ability of your boat it can be a very pleasant or miserable. Wind conditions can be very local and not forecast. On my last trip we had 48 knt winds off Crescent City that was not in the forecast. On a pior trip in my 4788 Bayliner we were yawing so badly the battery boxes tore loose in the Lazarett and ripped out a battery terminal smoking the radar. I also snapped a antenna mount. That's why I feel a September, October weather conditions make sense. You won't suffer the delays waiting for weather. You can do the trip around weather all year long but why make an ordeal out of it. The last time down was on my Hatteras 48LRC stabilized 66,000lb, in October we had everything from light variable to 48 knts, wind conditions can change and you can still be eight hours from safe haven. Why make it a challenge.
I haven't any experience with this type of stabilizer. I do have experience with active fin stabilizers and they do an incredible job of controlling broaching. They do nothing to control pitching. Most likely the trip down the coast will be in following seas. Depending on the tracking ability of your boat it can be a very pleasant or miserable. Wind conditions can be very local and not forecast. On my last trip we had 48 knt winds off Crescent City that was not in the forecast. On a pior trip in my 4788 Bayliner we were yawing so badly the battery boxes tore loose in the Lazarett and ripped out a battery terminal smoking the radar. I also snapped a antenna mount. That's why I feel a September, October weather conditions make sense. You won't suffer the delays waiting for weather. You can do the trip around weather all year long but why make an ordeal out of it. The last time down was on my Hatteras 48LRC stabilized 66,000lb, in October we had everything from light variable to 48 knts, wind conditions can change and you can still be eight hours from safe haven. Why make it a challenge.
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That is the smartest item mentioned on this entire thread. Ocean weather can sink / over-take any person or vessel. Never underestimate its capabilities.
Opu
Senior Member
A few random observations...
1) Some years back I helped to deliver a Catalina 38 from Dana Point to Oakland the last week in June. It was sloppy from DP to Santa Barbara, but it was a milk run from there to SF; we had light southerly winds an flat seas all the way. We then raced back to Catalina with light winds for two days, then 40 knots and 10-12 foot seas for an evening, then back to light airs.
2) SoCal has several offshore sailboat races. I raced my Catalina 27 around San Clemente Island a number of times. 50 miles out to sea going to weather, then 80 miles off wind to San Diego. Those races were on Labor Day weekend and the weather was anywhere from calm to blustery and sloppy (8-10 foot seas).
3) The Newport to Ensenada race takes place on the last weekend in April. I did 31 of those including 15 on my 27. The race is 125 miles (and 125 miles back
). I never did feel overwhelmed by either the winds or seas.
4) There are lots of places to visit between Point Conception and San Diego, but between those places are inhospitable lee shores with no anchorage. Coast Pilot 7 is your friend. There is no place to stop between San Diego and Ensenada.
Bottom line: you can get calm winds and seas or blustery winds and seas pretty much any time of year. For a “journey” it’s of paramount importance to have good weather information and use the info to make your go-no go decisions.
(He ducks, awaiting the flying tomatoes
)
1) Some years back I helped to deliver a Catalina 38 from Dana Point to Oakland the last week in June. It was sloppy from DP to Santa Barbara, but it was a milk run from there to SF; we had light southerly winds an flat seas all the way. We then raced back to Catalina with light winds for two days, then 40 knots and 10-12 foot seas for an evening, then back to light airs.
2) SoCal has several offshore sailboat races. I raced my Catalina 27 around San Clemente Island a number of times. 50 miles out to sea going to weather, then 80 miles off wind to San Diego. Those races were on Labor Day weekend and the weather was anywhere from calm to blustery and sloppy (8-10 foot seas).
3) The Newport to Ensenada race takes place on the last weekend in April. I did 31 of those including 15 on my 27. The race is 125 miles (and 125 miles back
). I never did feel overwhelmed by either the winds or seas. 4) There are lots of places to visit between Point Conception and San Diego, but between those places are inhospitable lee shores with no anchorage. Coast Pilot 7 is your friend. There is no place to stop between San Diego and Ensenada.
Bottom line: you can get calm winds and seas or blustery winds and seas pretty much any time of year. For a “journey” it’s of paramount importance to have good weather information and use the info to make your go-no go decisions.
(He ducks, awaiting the flying tomatoes
)
