Additives at fill up

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Lepke said:
I'm 69 and first captained a diesel boat in the early 60s. I've never had a fuel problem. If you use high volumes of fuel, then the included additives in newly refined fuel will keep your tanks clean. But if your tanks sit, they will acquire water and organisms. Full tanks collect less unwanted water and organisms than near empty tanks. Cold climates collect less, but still collect. I use an additive every time I fuel.
I have a diesel PU that has a known injector problem with sludge buildups that cause misfiring. In solving the problem I came across Archoil 6200, a fuel modification complex. I also use AR9100 - a friction modifier. Now my injectors are beyond typical working life and operating fine. In addition, I get increased mileage, clean tanks, etc. I now use it in the boat and see better mileage, better winter starts, clean tanks, etc. If interested - archoil.com
Available on Amazon, Ebay and better fuel dealers.
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Snake oil.

Keep your tanks clean and buy fuel from reputable (and busy) stations and no additives will be needed. Period.
 
I have not tried this but, a quart of cheap gin for every 200 gallons of diesel fuel. Should sop up all the water and will give a pleasant smell when you start your engines in your slip.
Or maybe some "golden grain" alcohol .... I think that is 200 proof alcohol.
Do not drink the left over 'golden grain' unless you have a desire to lie on the ground suffering unexplained 'seasickness', waking up with one hell of a headache and hangover. Another story from my years on nuclear powered submarines in the US Navy. CHUCKLE
 
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At least Marvel Mystery Oil is appropriately named.
 
OldDan1943 said:
I have not tried this but, a quart of cheap gin for every 200 gallons of diesel fuel. Should sop up all the water and will give a pleasant smell when you start your engines in your slip.
Or maybe some "golden grain" alcohol .... I think that is 200 proof alcohol.
Do not drink the left over 'golden grain' unless you have a desire to lie on the ground suffering unexplained 'seasickness', waking up with one hell of a headache and hangover. Another story from my years on nuclear powered submarines in the US Navy. CHUCKLE
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Drink the gin and if you feel the need to polute your fuel use metho - it'll have the same result, good or bad.
 
Simi 60 said:
The increased fuel mileage claim is one that gets me.

If these miracle elixirs did actually work, wouldn't an oil company buy it and add it to their fuel?
They would instantly claim market share over their competitors who sell the less efficient product.
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Additives don't last forever. Usually much less than a year. Some only a few weeks. Diesel has to be competitive with other refiners. Only additives for short term stability are used. The additive I use costs a few cents a gallon. I get it back in mileage. But most people wouldn't buy more expensive fuel with a promise of anything. We're too use to seeing the price at the pump without any thought of what extras may be in it. Does Chevron sell the most gas because of Techron? No most people go to the cheap gas station.
 
Lepke said:
Additives don't last forever. Usually much less than a year. Some only a few weeks. Diesel has to be competitive with other refiners. Only additives for short term stability are used. The additive I use costs a few cents a gallon. I get it back in mileage. But most people wouldn't buy more expensive fuel with a promise of anything. We're too use to seeing the price at the pump without any thought of what extras may be in it. Does Chevron sell the most gas because of Techron? No most people go to the cheap gas station.
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:eek::facepalm::nonono::banghead:
 
AusCan said:
Water cannot disappear. It has to go somewhere. It may be held in suspension and get picked up in the filters but if it makes its way to the engine, that is bad news for your fuel injection pump.

A much better option is a fuel tank with a drain valve. If the drain valve is at the bottom of a small sump, that's even better.
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Even better is for the fuel line to come off from the bottom, so the constant removal of any contaminants keeps the tank clean anyway and is coped with easily by the primary filter and water trap. From which, I might add, like Brian of Insequent, who is in the same environment, I get next to nothing, even though theroetically I do all thewrong things by never having the tanks more than half full, and use the boat not that much, so it sits around for long periods. Never had a fuel issue. This really effective system, (in my view - also that of Nordhavn I might add), of having the fuel take off at the bottom of the tank, was more by accident that planning, but works so well, you wonder why they ever did it any different..? :)
 
PeterB,
Isn’t that the way most boats are plumbed?
A vertical pick-up tube down to about 3/4” from the bottom.
 
Nomad Willy said:
PeterB,
Isn’t that the way most boats are plumbed?
A vertical pick-up tube down to about 3/4” from the bottom.
Click to expand...

That will always leave crud on the bottom which, when stirred up clogs the filters.

Pickup tube from that actual bottom sucks up the crud and runs it through filters for collection - continually.

Crud trap collects crud to be drained off so it doesn't see the filters
Actual fuel pick up an inch off bottom of tank is always seeing clean fuel.
 
Pick up tubes are usually close to the tank bottom, but there is almost always a slight dead space.
When I fitted out my tanks, I installed pickup tubes about 1 cm off the bottom, as well as and outlet off the lowest corner of the tank which goes to the sight glass and drain. I can also divert this to feed the engine.

Having a sight glass feed from the lowest point will allow you to see the smallest trace of water when you check your fuel level.
 
"Actual fuel pick up an inch off bottom of tank is always seeing clean fuel."

In better built fuel tanks there is a plate with multiple holes an inch or two above the bottom.

Fuel is picked up above the plate in the hope that water and goop will not flood above the plate as the boat rocks & rolls.

A low point drain is fitted , but if a tank with sump can be fitted, it is much safer.
 
My tank bottoms slope, following the hull contour. The in tank pickups pull the tanks to within less than 2" of tank bottom. Taking into account the sloped bottom, very little tank dead space exists.
 
"Taking into account the sloped bottom, very little tank dead space exists."


How is it be drained?
 
FF said:
How is it be drained?
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At the sloped bottom of each tank there are two valves. One for the sight tubes and the other for a drain or crossover (which I never use).
 
Simi 60 said:
Quiet day and this 14+ page thread has entertainment value from post 1


ArCHOIL 6200 WOW
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3356100/ArCHOIL_6200_WOW!#Post3356100

Starts to get more informative around page 6

Add: read all that and a larger thread on a cummins forum and found no actual evidence that pouring several hundred dollars worth of miracle elixir into my tank will have an actual benefit.

I'll pour several hundred dollars worth of diesel in instead, at least I know I'll get a return on that.
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You'd have a different opinion if you owned an early model Chevy Duramax pickup truck.
 
Then explain why those of us who dont use additives in our pleasure and comnercial vessels rarely if evey have problems?

Or is that only true for early Duramax trucks?
 
"Then explain why those of us who dont use additives in our pleasure and comnercial vessels rarely if evey have problems?"

If the turnover is rapid the changing levels of fuel do not allow the bug filled fuel water interface to stay long enough to coat the tank walls with dead bugs and bug poop.
 
psneeld said:
Then explain why those of us who dont use additives in our pleasure and comnercial vessels rarely if evey have problems?

Or is that only true for early Duramax trucks?
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On the nuclear powered sub, we had an emergency diesel. We would run it periodically and put it under a load.... for exercise. Neither I nor the Chief MM know we never took on fuel and doubt if the other crew took on fuel. I do not know if there were additives in the initial fill up but, there was plenty of fuel left onboard when it was decommissioned. Best guess, the fuel was at least 10 years old. I cannot remember any special filters nor separators associated with the diesel engine. I do know, my memory is fading or failing when it comes to the sub. I was an MM1 SS) and the Chief was a master chief MM.

Merry Christmas.
 
Sure, additives for long term storage, extreme conditions or questionable fuel....

But that explains why normal boaters and commercial operators, using their fuel on a fairly regular basis, that dont use additives generally dont have issues in my and it seems like plenty of other's experience.

Using an additive and not having problems is not really proof the additive works. you might not like the vast majority of boaters around you.
 
psneeld said:
But that explains why normal boaters and commercial operators, using their fuel on a fairly regular basis, that dont use additives generally dont have issues in my and it seems like plenty of other's experience.
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Think the simple answers are fuel turnover and suspended particulate removed by the filter. My charter boat typically consumes 40 to 80% of the fuel in the tank each trip. With 70 to 100 trips per year, that's a lot of fuel turnover. While my pickup is in a small sump keeping the bottom of the tank clean, the agitation from running in seas would mix stuff up in most tanks. The one time I got a fill up of fuel with a load of crud in it, the racor had sucked it all up and was plugged in only 2 trips.

The other factor that seems to have made a difference is that most fuel docks now have filters on their stations just before the fill hose. Think that has eliminated most of the crud risk. Don't known if they also trap water.

Ted
 
Never used anything other than diesel in my 4-200 gallon black steel tanks. Boat is 1976 model and we bought it new.

After seeing tests that showed no appreciable difference between keeping tanks full verses half full, I did change my keep full policy to 1/2 tank at the end of boating season and refill in the Spring. Just to turn over the fuel a little more often. Tanks are still clean and it's been 5 years now.
 
Nomad Willy said:
PeterB,
Isn’t that the way most boats are plumbed?
A vertical pick-up tube down to about 3/4” from the bottom.
Click to expand...

Sorry, bit late coming back in on this. Eric, you missed my point. My tanks actually have the fuel line coming from the bottom. There is no pick-up tube down from the top. So anything the forms that could build up as crud or water is being continually drained away and dealt with by the primary filter - which last years, by the way. So, no crud has time to build up on the bottom of the tanks. I gather Nordhavn use a similar set-up - backed up again by a day tank with a sump drain as well, I think.
 
Nomad Willy said:
PeterB,
Isn’t that the way most boats are plumbed?
A vertical pick-up tube down to about 3/4” from the bottom.
Click to expand...

Mine have a pickup tube from the bottom side of the tank, approx 1/4 inch above the bottom edge. Here's a shot from inside the tank in the middle of a recent tank repair. This is the aft port corner of the stbd tank.
 

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I think this thread is done.
Those that use additives never have problems
Those that DON'T use additives never have problems........but they do have extra dollars for more diesel.
 
I do believe, I will over dose my fuel with a additive to remove the condensate. Opinions?
 
If you hava a condensate problem, or any other problem...

Sure, use a problem specific additive.

If you dont have a problem with condensate, then dont.

Do you know you have a condensate problem? A little water in a Racor isnt evidence of just condensate, it could have been water in the fuel delivered, or got in through the vemt or filler line. Is it all year or occasional? Etc...etc....
 
psneeld said:
If you hava a condensate problem, or any other problem...

Sure, use a problem specific additive.

If you dont have a problem with condensate, then dont.

Do you know you have a condensate problem? A little water in a Racor isnt evidence of just condensate, it could have been water in the fuel delivered, or got in through the vemt or filler line. Is it all year or occasional? Etc...etc....
Click to expand...

It all started when I would get a water in fuel alarm when starting. It would clear in a couple of seconds. When I check the Racor, the bowl was white with the emulsion of fuel and water. I had the filter bowl removed, cleaned and new o'rings installed. New filter too.
The fuel is about 2 years old.
I am going to over dose the fuel will BioBorMD, about twice recommended amount. BioBor MD is the only additive that states it will take care of the water.
 
Simi 60 said:
We use about 50% of our tank each year.
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I'm like you Simi. Tanks full when we bought at end of March, now at about 1/2. If I was like the guys using it up every day/week/month I would be less concerned although you aren't concerned either. With my low fuel use it wouldn't be very expensive to throw in some biocide at fill up and I guess I will do so. I haven't read one post about it hurting anything.
 
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