Additives at fill up

Simi 60 said:

But where do you stop?
Plenty of miracle cures for perceived problems being sold for boat, car, home and body with little to no actual evidence to support their purchase.

A bit like religion.

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Like those bug magnet things.

And more on the additive point, you have no idea what has been added upstream and how your additive will react to these chemicals.

For me Biobore is a must but I also use Stabill.

And I try to keep my tanks 1/2 to 3/4 full.

porman said:

Be very careful with that. A friend replaced his fuel cap o-ring with one he bought at a local hardware store. Several months later his engine was dying while running. We found a lot of water in his filter. When checking the fuel filler we found the o-ring swollen and cracked. Apparently it wasn't for use with petroleum products.

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Good catch. One would assume but............Will have to run a test.

porman said:

Be very careful with that. A friend replaced his fuel cap o-ring with one he bought at a local hardware store. Several months later his engine was dying while running. We found a lot of water in his filter. When checking the fuel filler we found the o-ring swollen and cracked. Apparently it wasn't for use with petroleum products.

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Make sure they are nitrile, buna-n or viton, never neoprene with diesel.

AusCan said:

Make sure they are nitrile, buna-n or viton, never neoprene with diesel.

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I've never thought about what we use on the deck fills. I've always gone to the auto supply or hardware store and bought the size I needed. Now you guys have me thinking about it.

But a question, since they aren't in contact with any fuel per say, does it really matter? I'm just looking to keep stuff out of the tanks not the fuel getting out. Just asking.

Larry M said:

I've never thought about what we use on the deck fills. I've always gone to the auto supply or hardware store and bought the size I needed. Now you guys have me thinking about it.

But a question, since they aren't in contact with any fuel per say, does it really matter? I'm just looking to keep stuff out of the tanks not the fuel getting out. Just asking.

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They still are in contact with the hydrocarbon fumes, as well as the odd splash of diesel while filling. Diesel will cause neoprene to swell significantly and then it may be large of diameter to seal properly.

porman said:

Be very careful with that. A friend replaced his fuel cap o-ring with one he bought at a local hardware store. Several months later his engine was dying while running. We found a lot of water in his filter. When checking the fuel filler we found the o-ring swollen and cracked. Apparently it wasn't for use with petroleum products.

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Yup, that is why I asked "where".

When you guys say deck fill are they actually in the deck?

Delivered a boat once and had to refuel on passage and it had actual deck fillers.
Stupid spot for them because the decks were continually awash with salt water while it was happening.

Ours are in the cabin sides about 3 ft above deck.

Simi 60 said:

When you guys say deck fill are they actually in the deck?

Delivered a boat once and had to refuel on passage and it had actual deck fillers.
Stupid spot for them because the decks were continually awash with salt water while it was happening.

Ours are in the cabin sides about 3 ft above deck.

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No, mine are up about 3 ft but in a smooth deck. In the Miami area, we suffered for about 3 day of Irma. That was a lot of rain.

Mine are in the cockpit. There is a possibility of beer or wine getting in the fuel.

OldDan1943 said:

No, mine are up about 3 ft but in a smooth deck.

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Yeah, so in the deck.
Refueling in some slop will see water in the tanks
Degraded Orings will see water in the tanks

I am an advocate for using quite of a bit of my fuel before refilling the tank, rather than topping off every trip. Because my flow rate is so low, I want to hold off until about 2/3 of the tank has been used. For the winter I use additives and fill the tank all the way up.

I never have water in my filter bowl at the end of the season, and use additives every other tank of fuel (100 gallons normally). The temperatures here are pretty stable for the boating season, and as much as I hear about condensation I have never seen the issue with this boat.

The quality of fuel degrades over time, so freshening the tank by burning it off makes sense to me. When I bought it, I pumped the entire tank off (gave it to the boatyard for a drip heater in the shop) and filled with fresh fuel. There was over 100 gallons of fuel in the 150 gallon tank, and only 46 hours on the 13 year old vessel. I didn't trust it for the trip up, heading a foreseeable problem off before it became a problem...

I run in rough water often and my filter bowl stayed clean after the trip up. On the trip up all kinds of gunk ripped loose inside the tank and wound up in the bowl. At one GPH max flow it didn't become an issue, but it was obvious the old fuel had allowed things to grow in the tank.

With any tank that has dead space below the pickup tubes that never gets changed over completely, there is a high probability that water and general crap will accumulate over time. This is especially true with 30 year old boats that do not spend time in rough water to shake them up.

You can deal with the “heavy ends” by adding chemicals to make some of it lighter and mixes with the clean diesel.

You can install a fuel polishing system.

You can drain off the heavy ends manually if your tank is set up for this.

You can run your fuel supply from the bottom of the tank. It’s probably best if done only occasionally starting from a clean tank.

Or you can run your boat in rough water to shake things up on a regular basis. (Again start with a clean tank)

I do the latter 3 things to keep mine clean.

Practical Sailors Report.
https://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/37_32/features/Diesel-Additives_11083-1.html

A good article. Thanks!

Yes indeed, a good article stating unequivocally that Startron Diesel additive is the best organic antidote for water in tanks. The best antidote is keep the salt water out!

I'm 69 and first captained a diesel boat in the early 60s. I've never had a fuel problem. If you use high volumes of fuel, then the included additives in newly refined fuel will keep your tanks clean. But if your tanks sit, they will acquire water and organisms. Full tanks collect less unwanted water and organisms than near empty tanks. Cold climates collect less, but still collect. I use an additive every time I fuel.
I have a diesel PU that has a known injector problem with sludge buildups that cause misfiring. In solving the problem I came across Archoil 6200, a fuel modification complex. I also use AR9100 - a friction modifier. Now my injectors are beyond typical working life and operating fine. In addition, I get increased mileage, clean tanks, etc. I now use it in the boat and see better mileage, better winter starts, clean tanks, etc. If interested - archoil.com
Available on Amazon, Ebay and better fuel dealers.

Quiet day and this 14+ page thread has entertainment value from post 1


ArCHOIL 6200 WOW
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3356100/ArCHOIL_6200_WOW!#Post3356100

Starts to get more informative around page 6

Add: read all that and a larger thread on a cummins forum and found no actual evidence that pouring several hundred dollars worth of miracle elixir into my tank will have an actual benefit.

I'll pour several hundred dollars worth of diesel in instead, at least I know I'll get a return on that.

Lepke said:

I'm 69 and first captained a diesel boat in the early 60s. I've never had a fuel problem. If you use high volumes of fuel, then the included additives in newly refined fuel will keep your tanks clean. But if your tanks sit, they will acquire water and organisms. Full tanks collect less unwanted water and organisms than near empty tanks. Cold climates collect less, but still collect. I use an additive every time I fuel.
I have a diesel PU that has a known injector problem with sludge buildups that cause misfiring. In solving the problem I came across Archoil 6200, a fuel modification complex. I also use AR9100 - a friction modifier. Now my injectors are beyond typical working life and operating fine. In addition, I get increased mileage, clean tanks, etc. I now use it in the boat and see better mileage, better winter starts, clean tanks, etc. If interested - archoil.com
Available on Amazon, Ebay and better fuel dealers.

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I understand the basics of how the friction modifiers work in improving injector performance. There are numerous products which do that very well.

But I still have not seen any clear information on how additives deal with water that accumulates in the tanks. What is the chemical process?

AusCan said:

But I still have not seen any clear information on how additives deal with water that accumulates in the tanks. What is the chemical process?

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I think one way is emulsifying the water so it gets burnt, I think there is a second way someone else will remember.
I use "Fuelmaster". Does it help? Not sure,despite the naysayers, I continue with it.

The increased fuel mileage claim is one that gets me.

If these miracle elixirs did actually work, wouldn't an oil company buy it and add it to their fuel?
They would instantly claim market share over their competitors who sell the less efficient product.

BruceK said:

I think one way is emulsifying the water so it gets burnt, I think there is a second way someone else will remember.
I use "Fuelmaster". Does it help? Not sure,despite the naysayers, I continue with it.

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If it is emulsified and burnt, that cannot be good for an injector pump. The water component in the emulsified globule is still incompressible.

“If these miracle elixirs did actually work, wouldn't an oil company buy it and add it to their fuel?
They would instantly claim market share over their competitors who sell the less efficient product.”

Bingo!!

AusCan said:

If it is emulsified and burnt, that cannot be good for an injector pump. The water component in the emulsified globule is still incompressible.

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I don`t know the tech aspects but that could be very fair comment. Mind you, I`ve been using additives in 2 boats(3 engines), and no injector pump failure. So far.
Let`s hope an additive mfr responds,(I won`t hold my breath pending). Like anchor mfrs do. On some posts (not Auscan`s under reply)the thread is starting to resemble an anchor thread.

BruceK said:

I don`t know the tech aspects but that could be very fair comment. Mind you, I`ve been using additives in 2 boats(3 engines), and no injector pump failure. So far.
Let`s hope an additive mfr responds,(I won`t hold my breath pending). Like anchor mfrs do. On some posts (not Auscan`s under reply)the thread is starting to resemble an anchor thread.

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If the emulsifying agent limited the amount of water in each globule, that would limit the increased stress on the injector pump. Perhaps.

Still - manually draining the water out of the tank makes more sense to me.

As I mentioned previously - there are numerous way to deal with this. (just like anchoring)

As Nigel Calder suggests, all fuel tanks should have a drainable sump with a valve. Mine have a screw in plug the brave can drain from, though I think Brisboy added a valve to his. No sump though.
Of course other additive properties are claimed,water removal is not the only one. If you accept,in whole or part, the mfrs claims.

I am following the lead of many of the long range and live aboard cruisers on here, including the people who run and manage heavy land based equipment. The last thread a couple weeks ago was enough for me to finally decide. BIobor yes, but no other lube additives. Anyone want to buy some Stenadyne?

Fletcher500 said:

. The last thread a couple weeks ago

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Was there any actual evidence in that one?

I don't know why actual documented evidence and data is so hard to come by.

Surely it should be as simple as two mining sites/ fishing companies etc running the same big engines and fuel source.
Site A runs "miracle elixir" infused diesel through its gear
Site B runs bog standard diesel through its gear.

Report back at 6 mth intervals with results.

Easting said:

If you go to Harbor Freight. You can purchase a box of rubber o rings (assortment of sizes) for like 8 bucks that will last you and you kids the rest of your lives Great to have around.

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With the HF kit in hand, I still had to take the old O'ring to O'Reilley's to get a proper fitting O ring.

Simi 60 said:

When you guys say deck fill are they actually in the deck?

Delivered a boat once and had to refuel on passage and it had actual deck fillers.
Stupid spot for them because the decks were continually awash with salt water while it was happening.

Ours are in the cabin sides about 3 ft above deck.

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My sailboat had a flush mount deck fill for fuel. I've seen that plenty of times. My North Pacfic has fills in the cockpit corners. They are about 18" up from the deck and are snugged up to the back bulkhead of the solon. The cockpit is covered as well. So not much water gets in there. Still, I should check the O-rings.