Cockpit Cover, Hall Storage and Oil Change

Hi, from an almost Troll owner.

I'm waiting for a final survey report, but I believe I am the almost owner of a 97 Troll. I'll take possession in a week or two.

In the mean time, I have a few questions that I might get a head start on.

First, the boat does not have any sort of cockpit cover. At the moment, my plan is to install a canvas cover supported by stainless rails. Its a pretty small area to cover and I'm thinking of doing it myself. I've sewn quite a bit of canvas, but all pretty simple stuff. Anyone tackled this job and if so, any suggestions would be appreciated.

Second, the boat needs an oil change, which I will do right away. Is there any standard, tried and true way of draining the oil? In routing around the area around the engine, I did not see any easy to spot drain line, so any ideas are appreciated.

and Finally, as you all know, there is that rather odd lower hall area below the step into the head area. Several of the boats I looked at had added raised flooring in that area, with storage underneath. Any suggestions? one Piece, or a couple? vented or not?

Looking forward to getting her back to my boathouse and doing a few things, but these will likely be the first..

thanks in advance

Toni

2) oil isn't drained. It gets pumped out, usually through the dipstick tube. Careful, the tube can come off. Make sure the oil is warm so it is thin enough to suck out, generally with a vacuum handpump specially made for the purpose. Remember I said the oil has to be warm? If it is cold, good effen luck getting it out of there.

1) look at different designs. I had a SS pipe support coming up from the deck. Some others are supportless, instead having a triangular shape so it is free hanging. I always wished I had something like that whenever fishing, cleaning or loading anything on the boat. Downside is it hasn't much snow-load strength.

3) how tall are you? The lower floor gives some people standing headroom when entering the v berth. If it was filled in with storage, you'd be forced to duck going into the berth. I wasn't forced to duck and could walk in (sometimes) other times, too many, I smacked my head on the top door frame. My vote is to put a lid on it. Some look very nice that way.

Greg S said:

2) oil isn't drained. It gets pumped out, usually through the dipstick tube. Careful, the tube can come off. Make sure the oil is warm so it is thin enough to suck out, generally with a vacuum handpump specially made for the purpose. Remember I said the oil has to be warm? If it is cold, good effen luck getting it out of there.

Thanks Greg. I was afraid of that.
I've got an electric pump for the chore, but it sure is nice when there is a larger hose died directly to the drain plug on the pan. Either way, I'll make it work.

1) look at different designs. I had a SS pipe support coming up from the deck. Some others are supportless, instead having a triangular shape so it is free hanging. I always wished I had something like that whenever fishing, cleaning or loading anything on the boat. Downside is it hasn't much snow-load strength.

I'm leaning towards the triangular shape. I think I can get all the hard parts from Fisheries Supply. I've got enough Sunbrella already. Haven't done anything quite as complicated, but I'll give it a shot.

3) how tall are you? The lower floor gives some people standing headroom when entering the v berth. If it was filled in with storage, you'd be forced to duck going into the berth. I wasn't forced to duck and could walk in (sometimes) other times, too many, I smacked my head on the top door frame. My vote is to put a lid on it. Some look very nice that way.

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Ha...the tallness just ain't an issue for me. I just want to get rid of that last big step down. I think I'll make the cover in two pieces, easier to lift out.

Thanks very much for the input.

toni

A cockpit cover shouldn't be hard to make, and doesn't take a lot of precision like a Bimini would.

I assume you'll use snaps to secure it around the edges and you'll need an industrial type snap pliers. The cheap kind won't do. But, with a good one you can position the snaps from the canvas to the boat, quite precisely to eliminate slack. I'd just us a pole in the center with a grommet so water will flow off.

I wish there were a better way than snaps, they are a pita and slow to put cover on.

I'm considering one now, but will have my canvas guy do it.

I have two removable boards that work well. I cover with a carpet runner for aesthetics. I do this for the kids so it's easier for them to enter the v berth, but I prefer not having them in as headroom becomes an issue and I like the look of the teak and holly flooring better than the carpet. Nice to have options. As you can see the forward board is removed and used for storage.

Seevee said:

A cockpit cover shouldn't be hard to make, and doesn't take a lot of precision like a Bimini would.

I assume you'll use snaps to secure it around the edges and you'll need an industrial type snap pliers. The cheap kind won't do. But, with a good one you can position the snaps from the canvas to the boat, quite precisely to eliminate slack. I'd just us a pole in the center with a grommet so water will flow off.

I wish there were a better way than snaps, they are a pita and slow to put cover on.

I'm considering one now, but will have my canvas guy do it.

Click to expand...

I may have confused the subject. By cockpit cover I mean a cover extending strait back from the bottom edge of the flybridge, held in place by a couple of uprights in the back, or a couple diagonals at an angle down from the fly bridge railing. Plan to leave it up all the time.
I've dealt with wet cockpits, i.e. where the rain hits the back door,
or dry ones, i.e. with a cover. Up here, the dryer the better.

jhance said:

I have two removable boards that work well. I cover with a carpet runner for aesthetics. I do this for the kids so it's easier for them to enter the v berth, but I prefer not having them in as headroom becomes an issue and I like the look of the teak and holly flooring better than the carpet. Nice to have options. As you can see the forward board is removed and used for storage.

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Perfect, thanks. Just what I was contemplating. Glad to hear it works out. AS I mentioned, headroom is no issue for me. Since all I have is carpet, it will be easy to make look pretty seemless.

thanks again.

Just a quick update. The survey on my almost gone boat was completed today and all is relatively good, so that takes care of half the battle. After fumbling around a bit, the survey on the impending Troll is set for the 16th. All good with that.

I also followed up some on my idea of a cockpit cover. Man, I've been out of the canvas buying business for too long; the prices I'm seeing are knocking me over. 4k plus.
So, may go back to my original thought and build it myself. Its winter, so what else is there to do? Assuming all goes as planned, I'll get the boat down to my boathouse in Tacoma and do some figuring and planning. We'll see.

ctjstr, for the cockpit cover you might try Churchill Brothers in Everett. They made a lot of canvas pieces for the Camanos. Our flybridge cover and window covers were made by them. They might already have a pattern for it.

I spent about $2K on a Sailrite 111 with the upgraded motor, stand and a bunch of various binders and lots of Tenara thread about 6 years ago. I needed a storage cover made of Sunbrella that the canvas guy wanted about $2400 to make. It cost me about $600 in materials to make it. Since then I have made a full enclosure for 2 of my boats and a sundeck enclosure along with about 50 small projects. Best boating investment I have ever made (about the only boating investment I have actually made money on).

porman said:

ctjstr, for the cockpit cover you might try Churchill Brothers in Everett. They made a lot of canvas pieces for the Camanos. Our flybridge cover and window covers were made by them. They might already have a pattern for it.

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Churchill Bros did the canvas on my boat... nice work.

Over 10 years ago when we bought our Willard I was planing to put a cockpit cover over the aft cockpit but it Hasn't made it to the top of the to do list yet.

The Cocpit cover is one more room on the boat. Also practical to dry clothes rain with air, moisture does not enter the interior.

With cold air, the cocpit is warm if somewhat sunny, and if I'm a pretty day I can roll them up in 5-10 minutes and it's open. My old boat and the current NT cover are worth the investment

NBs

thanks all for the suggestions. Since I'm just getting into the sewing thing, I may give it a try, but odds are I'll end up calling Churchill bros. time will tell.
toni

OP: Good luck with your pending sale and purchase. I just went through all of that in July. Make sure you have most of the major issues fixed by the seller. You're looking at a 20 year old boat and there's bound to be some issues. Hopefully they are all minor. They probably will be! Camanos are awesome.

Im looking at a cockpit cover and fly bridge enclosure next spring. Big bucks! But I agree with you about the wet cockpit. Kinda a bummer bringing wet feet into the salon.

South of Heaven said:

OP: Good luck with your pending sale and purchase. I just went through all of that in July. Make sure you have most of the major issues fixed by the seller. You're looking at a 20 year old boat and there's bound to be some issues. Hopefully they are all minor. They probably will be! Camanos are awesome.

Im looking at a cockpit cover and fly bridge enclosure next spring. Big bucks! But I agree with you about the wet cockpit. Kinda a bummer bringing wet feet into the salon.

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I'll let you know how my cover project works out,

On an even better note, I received the check for my boat today. I still owe the purchaser one new prop which I'll pick up and deliver Wednesday, but other than that, its done.

Now just waiting for the survey and oil analysis on the new boat, which is currently named "Meannder" Its been a northwest boat all its life, far as I can tell, so chances are someone here may know of it. Still debating on whether to keep or change the name. Its an odd spelling of the term and I've yet to figure if it has a special meaning for the seller. THe boat has less than 800 hours on it and shows that way. Its fun planning a new boat. YOu have all these great ideas, half of which go by the wayside. But still a fun process.

Just to clarify, by "cockpit cover", you're talking about a single cover (not an "enclosure") over the rear portion between the transom and the saloon or cabin, right?

I had replacement canvas made for mine (not the frame) for $650. They just copied the original which by now had patches on the patches. Mine laces onto the frame, it doesn't use snaps. There is also a zipper for the center tube.

The frame, of course would cost more but it wouldn't be difficult with the equipment to bend the tubing.

I suggest looking at other Camanos or at least getting photos and then getting quotes from a few canvas shops.

aboatman said:

Just to clarify, by "cockpit cover", you're talking about a single cover (not an "enclosure") over the rear portion between the transom and the saloon or cabin, right?

that's correct.

I had replacement canvas made for mine (not the frame) for $650. They just copied the original which by now had patches on the patches. Mine laces onto the frame, it doesn't use snaps. There is also a zipper for the center tube.

My plan, such as it is, is to fasten the cover with snaps where it attaches to the back of the cabin. i"m thinking a zipper for the access to the flybridge.

The frame, of course would cost more but it wouldn't be difficult with the equipment to bend the tubing.

I've seen several sources for all the metal parts and connections. I'll try and get the bulk of them at Fisheries, but as seems always true in this type of project, there are another half dozen trips to a supplier for stuff you forget, or need to change.


I suggest looking at other Camanos or at least getting photos and then getting quotes from a few canvas shops.

Click to expand...

I did get a price from Churchill and it was 4,500 just for the cover. I about fell over. Its what has prompted me to try this on my own.
I can always call them to fix my mess, for a few extra bucks I'm sure.

thanks again

toni

Mine was added 13 years ago before I owned the boat. Custom aluminum frame with stitched on cover. It's great. Just replaced the cover for <$400 and expect it will last another 12-13 years...
Check out Hardtotop as they make some modular hardtops that could be installed with a simple stainless frame...

ctjstr said:

I did get a price from Churchill and it was 4,500 just for the cover. I about fell over. Its what has prompted me to try this on my own.
I can always call them to fix my mess, for a few extra bucks I'm sure.

thanks again

toni

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That price seems way high for just a cockpit cover. I'll bet it's because they are so busy. I was in there yesterday getting some cans for a patch job I'm doing and they said they are booked out until May.

Heron said:

Mine was added 13 years ago before I owned the boat. Custom aluminum frame with stitched on cover. It's great. Just replaced the cover for <$400 and expect it will last another 12-13 years...
Check out Hardtotop as they make some modular hardtops that could be installed with a simple stainless frame...

Click to expand...

Wow..thanks. That looks like it might just do the trick. Just dropped hardtotop an email.

toni

They did say they were very busy, but I agree, that price seemed pretty high.

CT: Have you looked at all the different cockpit covers from the Camano's on YachtWorld? I have and noticed there are several different types.

Some are more bimini tube like and have no aft supports at all. Others are also bimini tube like but DO have a small tube supports.

Some are more heavy duty and have very beefy frames with a stamoid type top.

Then I've seen a true hard top with big angled supports which was pretty impressive.

SO many styles and types! I'm not sure what I wanna get. It's a big decision because I also wanna enclose the upper helm and do the flybridge privacy canvas around the perimeter.

In order of importance I wanna work on the flybridge first. A dry cockpit would be nice but a dry and protected bridge is better IMO!!

South of Heaven said:

CT: Have you looked at all the different cockpit covers from the Camano's on YachtWorld? I have and noticed there are several different types.

Some are more bimini tube like and have no aft supports at all. Others are also bimini tube like but DO have a small tube supports.

Some are more heavy duty and have very beefy frames with a stamoid type top.

Then I've seen a true hard top with big angled supports which was pretty impressive.

SO many styles and types! I'm not sure what I wanna get. It's a big decision because I also wanna enclose the upper helm and do the flybridge privacy canvas around the perimeter.

In order of importance I wanna work on the flybridge first. A dry cockpit would be nice but a dry and protected bridge is better IMO!!

Click to expand...

Just be prepared for the extra windage with a flybridge and/or cockpit enclosure. It's going to be a lot different docking in winds with the added canvas versus without. I have cockpit and flybridge enclosures and the boat moves around a lot when docking in winds. I love my canvas, and overall the benefits far exceed the downsides of additional windage, but just be prepared. I can deal with a little extra movement when docking to gain the benefit of basically two extra "rooms" on the boat. One thing I do when docking in winds is open all canvas windows/doors to let the wind pass through.

since i'm only looking at the cockpit cover, i'd be surprised if the wind will make any significant difference. But you never know. In my experience, the biggest asset when docking into the wind.... is someone who knows how to handle lines well. I'm sure lots of folks have had the same experience, toss a line to someone on the dock...who ends up now having a clue where to set it...how how to listen to direction. Such is boating.

toni

ctjstr said:

since i'm only looking at the cockpit cover, i'd be surprised if the wind will make any significant difference. But you never know. In my experience, the biggest asset when docking into the wind.... is someone who knows how to handle lines well. I'm sure lots of folks have had the same experience, toss a line to someone on the dock...who ends up now having a clue where to set it...how how to listen to direction. Such is boating.

toni

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You won't notice a difference with just a cockpit cover. I was talking about enclosures with vertical pieces that add to windage.

jhance said:

You won't notice a difference with just a cockpit cover. I was talking about enclosures with vertical pieces that add to windage.

Click to expand...

got that..just messin with ya

With Meannder safely tucked into her boathouse, time to get to work. small delay while i recover from yesterdays surgery to fix a torn bicep tendon but....

Decided to go with the 'hardtotop" product. Should have the measurements done and photos done within a couple weeks. Just curious if any other Troll owners have used them and might have suggestions. My plan will be to go side to side full width, and perhaps extend the back 6" or so.
toni

Looking forward to seeing the results

I haven't made up my mind yet but I am also looking to mount a pair of solar panels on top for extended anchoring. Maybe a net underneath for life preserver storage and a fishing pole holder...

i really go back and forth on the solar panels. i think i'll use it for this summer and then decide. i've used each of my boats a little different from the last, so i'll wait to see how much time i spend on the anchor. as for fishing, I do my best fishing at Safeway, so not too worried about storing the gear.

toni