Mandatory Life jackets

Here in South Australia, a new bylaw has just been introduced making it manadatory to wear lifejackets when boating in some circumstances.


At first I thought - "just another revenue raiser" but they actually did some research and specified when the risk was actually high. It actually makes sense and won't really affect my existing habits.



Wearing of PFD's is now mandatory:

At all times in any motorized boat under 4.8 metres. (16 feet)

In boats 4.8 - 12 metres (16-40 feet) the rule will apply to:

Children under 12 when on an open deck;

All others on an open deck at times of "heightened risk"
Heightened risk includes: at night, when singlehanded, during severe weather, when crossing a bar, when the boat is disabled, at times of restricted visibility, and when the captain says so.

It won't apply to persons in the cockpit or cabin/saloon.

The state government is also sponsoring a program to trade in any old superseded PFD for a $20 voucher toward a new certified PFD.

Do they accept inflatable pfd's?

HopCar said:

Do they accept inflatable pfd's?

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Most inflatables are accepted, but they have to meet the required standards There are different category PFD's depending on whether you're in protected, semi-protected or unprotected water. (coastal, gulf, or offshore)

Its all about how much it keeps your face out of the water, not whether or not its an inflatable.

It's too bad our governments have to dictate what's best for us. I'd bet this won't save one life. The 99% responsible boaters will act safely regardless. The 1% idiots won't operate safe nor obey the law.

Seevee said:

It's too bad our governments have to dictate what's best for us. I'd bet this won't save one life. The 99% responsible boaters will act safely regardless. The 1% idiots won't operate safe nor obey the law.

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I agreaa 100%.

Seevee said:

It's too bad our governments have to dictate what's best for us. I'd bet this won't save one life. The 99% responsible boaters will act safely regardless. The 1% idiots won't operate safe nor obey the law.

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Another way to view this is that it reduces the number of idiots who's asses we need to save at public expense. Freedom is great until it starts imposing on others, or creates a public expense that the rest of us need to fund. I don't like funding the rescue of idiots. And if only the ratio were 99% to 1%. I'd estimate it's more like 25% to 75%.

The idea is not much different from Mandatory seat belt laws. Twistedtree has a point about the cost to the rest of us when others put themselves at unnecessary risk.

twistedtree said:

Another way to view this is that it reduces the number of idiots who's asses we need to save at public expense. Freedom is great until it starts imposing on others, or creates a public expense that the rest of us need to fund. I don't like funding the rescue of idiots. And if only the ratio were 99% to 1%. I'd estimate it's more like 25% to 75%.

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Agree 100%, including having to rescue fool mountain climbers. In my view, those who undertake such activities should do so at their own risk.

Drake said:

I agreaa 100%.

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And I disagree 90%. While i I agree that it's unfortunate people don't take safety more seriously, I also know that until the 1990s I never wore seat belt. But then it became mandatory and I started wearing one, and it eventually saved my life. Was I an "idiot" before that? Probably. But a lot of idiots changed their behavior when it became mandatory. As in almost everyone I know.

BDofMSP said:

And I disagree 90%. While i I agree that it's unfortunate people don't take safety more seriously, I also know that until the 1990s I never wore seat belt. But then it became mandatory and I started wearing one, and it eventually saved my life. Was I an "idiot" before that? Probably. But a lot of idiots changed their behavior when it became mandatory. As in almost everyone I know.

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Yes, you and a lot of the rest of us were idiots. My parents refused to wear seat belts. When the laws came in, we got serious. Still in the passenger seat they wouldn't, but they did when riding with me as I wasn't about to get a ticket because of them. More than once there was from one of them, "What are you waiting on?" and the answer was "You to put your seat belt on."

I never wore a PFD before we moved to the coast and we took captain's training, both classroom and personal. Suddenly, I realized I was responsible for others and needed to establish rules for them. In doing so, I needed to also follow rules. Still don't like to wear them, but our compliance is much along the lines of the Australian law referenced here.

What is so interesting is that we have two 3 year olds who occasionally boat with us. My wife helped them find "designer" PFD's, Perhaps not designer in the truest sense, but colorful and both girls love them. Their favorite is Dora. Mention boat and they're quickly to their room to get them and put them on. Last time they knew they were going out on the boat, they were dressed including the PFD's at 7:00 AM as breakfast in our home was being prepared. I thought of them as awful when I was a kid, but they think of them as wonderful because they love boating and the PFD means they're about to go boating.

Most young people have grown up now always wearing seat belts. It's their norm. Now, we do need to make proper use of PFD's a norm and if government intervention is what it takes, them I'm all for it.

Yeah; "dumb" can be just one side of the equation. You might be smart, but a collision can be caused by the "dumb", and the smart ones might need a jacket on, right now.

With the advent of inflatable life jackets, it's not such a hardship to wear them. When I started boating all I had were canvas covered kapok filled jackets. They were bulky and uncomfortable. Today bass fishermen seem to be the best about wearing life jackets. Do tournament rules require it?

HopCar said:

Do tournament rules require it?

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Yes, anytime the main engine or engines are running, so they really just do it all the time. Been a lot of bass fishermen flipped out of boats over the years.

Here's a few stats from the USCG 2016 Boating Accident Report*


Where cause of death was known, 80% of fatal boating accident victims drowned. Of
those drowning victims with reported life jacket usage, 83% were not wearing a life
jacket.

Eight out of every ten boaters who drowned were using vessels less than 21 feet in
length.

Only 13% percent of deaths occurred on
vessels where the operator had received a nationally-approved boating safety
education certificate.


* Full report available here:
https://www.uscgboating.org/library/accident-statistics/Recreational-Boating-Statistics-2016.pdf

BandB said:

Yes, you and a lot of the rest of us were idiots. My parents refused to wear seat belts....Most young people have grown up now always wearing seat belts. It's their norm. Now, we do need to make proper use of PFD's a norm and if government intervention is what it takes, them I'm all for it.

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Beautifully articulated.

It's about changing the culture of an activity. Seat belts are now part of our culture (in the US of A, anyway). Bike helmets, too. Slowly, ever so slowly, the new cell phone use while driving laws are taking hold. Before too long, this will be part of our culture.

I do somewhat resent being made to follow rules that I don't value, but part of the process of culture change is changing people's values. You young whippersnappers don't know what a monumental pain in the ass it was when auto manufacturers first started putting seat belt warning chimes into cars. Worse were the passive belt systems where the shoulder belt was attached to the door. People spent a lot of time trying to bypass these safety systems before the culture simply changed.

The end result of all this culture change? Millions and millions of lives saved, millions and millions of injuries made much less severe, and billions of healthcare dollars saved. In civilized societies we accept the restriction of certain personal liberties for the good of the whole.

But changes sure are hard!

What are the proper uses of PFDs?

Wear them all the time?

What about ferries and cruise ships?

And dont tell me how safe those vessels are.....statistically difficult to show my boat is any more dangerous or less so. Plus many passengers on those two modes cant swim or have lousy survival skills.

Start mandating PFDs beyond what it is now and you are starting to really get into government intrusion. I can live with the current regs and maybe a few more PFD regs....but all the time regs would make me fight to have that apply to every vessel big or small. Nothing like swimming in a cruise ship pool with a PFD on. Speaking of which, I will vote for banning swimming too.

I can think of many things that can make all of our lives safer that hardly anyone here would put up with.

I wonder, without the rule, would we be better off if the really stupid people left the gene pool? It seems that in the long run we're dumbing down humanity with all our safety rules. Not counting our supposed freedom.

Lepke said:

I wonder, without the rule, would we be better off if the really stupid people left the gene pool? It seems that in the long run we're dumbing down humanity with all our safety rules. Not counting our supposed freedom.

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I noted during a visit to China years ago that most buildings had open electrical panels, transformers and other hazards that weren't safeguarded like we're used to.

I guess they figure that if you're stupid enough to stick your hand in there, then they don't want you reproducing.

On the other hand, if you slowly step off the curb in China to cross a busy 8-lane road, the traffic flow will simply divide to allow you to cross.

Sort of the opposite of what we're accustomed to seeing. Individual responsibility but communal social concern. I found it refreshingly civilized.

But we don't have a communalistic culture in the US, so anything that cuts a lot of unnecessary costs is almost always a good thing.

Here is a summary of the requirements in NSW state Australia:

"The most common situations when a lifejacket must be worn on a recreational or hire and drive vessel are:

• on vessels under 4.8m at night, in open or alpine waters, and when boating alone
• by children under 12 years of age at all times in a vessel under 4.8m, and in an open area of a vessel 4.8m to 8m while underway
• on any vessel crossing a coastal bar
• on canoes and kayaks on all waters
• on sailboards and kiteboarding (when more than 400 metres from shore on open waters, when crossing a coastal bar or at night)
• by anyone being towed, such as waterskiing and wake boarding
• on personal watercraft, including tow-in surfer
• When directed by a master of a vessel."

Generally it makes sense. Though the first one, when boating alone, doesn`t if the additional person whose presence negates the requirement can`t swim.

I see the requirements as a minimum. Eg,my partner usually wears one while docking.
As to seat belts, I had a car with seat belts, an imported Renault, before seat belts were mandated. I think they are a great idea. They go hand in hand with laminated windscreens. Unrestrained you may be thrown forward,your head will punch a hole in the windscreen,your shoulders prevent further progress, the windscreen will cut your throat.

G'day, Bruce!

Sorry...I always wanted to say that to an Aussie named Bruce! Yes, I'm a Monty Python geek!

I agree that they're sensible rules. And as for the non-swimming boating companion, at least he or she might be able to throw a flotation device and perhaps bring the boat to a stop.

Bruce -
It sounds as if SA is fairly similar to NSW now. I'm just wondering what is considered an "open area" or "open deck" on a vessel. That seems somewhat open for debate.

Do lifelines and/or a stainless tube bow rail make it ok without a PFD?

BruceK said:

I see the requirements as a minimum. Eg,my partner usually wears one while docking.
As to seat belts, I had a car with seat belts, an imported Renault, before seat belts were mandated. I think they are a great idea. They go hand in hand with laminated windscreens. Unrestrained you may be thrown forward,your head will punch a hole in the windscreen,your shoulders prevent further progress, the windscreen will cut your throat.

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I recall the first person I knew with air bags. Her father bought her a Chrysler Lebaron. She liked it but the airbags never really registered with her. One afternoon she was run into by a drunk driver. The car was totaled. She walked away with minimal injuries. Everyone was amazed. Just like the commercials they were running. She immediately replaced it with another Lebaron and said she'd never own another car without airbags. The photo and story made the paper and television and definitely made a huge impression on a lot of people.

You look overall at the safety of cars today vs even when I was young and even more striking for those of you who are older. All government induced with a combination of requirements and published ratings.

Sabre602 said:

G'day, Bruce!

Sorry...I always wanted to say that to an Aussie named Bruce! Yes, I'm a Monty Python geek! .

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Thanks! Most "Bruces" are of "a certain age", maybe we MP fans are too. The name has Scottish origins and was not nearly as common as MP seemed to think.We could call you Bruce too....to avoid confusion.
For some reason the philosophers drinking song has come to mind: "Old Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle,...Socrates himself was permanently pissed". And now I`m thinking of the philosophers game show, with Karl Marx and others competing for a 3 piece lounge suite.
It needs to stop. Sorry. Back to PFDs.

psneeld said:

What about..... cruise ships?

And dont tell me how safe those vessels are.....statistically difficult to show my boat is any more dangerous or less so.

.

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really !?!?!

I know your particular boat is safe because you have a ton of training and experience....but if you compare the average mid size trawler/cabin cruiser with a cruise ship, its not even close. Cruise ships run 24/7/365 with thousands of passengers....I can't even venture to guess but the passenger miles travelled is in the Billions.....and deaths are exceedingly rare. Even with a major disaster like the Costa Concordia, less than 3 dozen people died. Over 700 recreational boaters died in 2016 alone.

I'm not saying that you are unsafe or reckless...but privately owned boats controlled by average citizens, are no where near as safe as a cruise ship.

AusCan said:

Bruce -
It sounds as if SA is fairly similar to NSW now. I'm just wondering what is considered an "open area" or "open deck" on a vessel. That seems somewhat open for debate.
Do lifelines and/or a stainless tube bow rail make it ok without a PFD?

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It is similar, which is good, safety should not change at State boundaries.I could not find a definition of "open". The rules seem to be part of a table, which uses the word "open". I doubt fencing would change anything, my guess is it means "not in an enclosed cabin" or something like that, somewhere you cannot end up in the water. You could easily get washed over rails or lifelines, especially in a well heeled boat.

I always wear a PFD when single-handed or in the dinghy, and when the situation is scary (which hasn't happened yet because of tall/strong railings and operating in the pilothouse).

Sabre602 said:

On the other hand, if you slowly step off the curb in China to cross a busy 8-lane road, the traffic flow will simply divide to allow you to cross.

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From Wiki...

"Under the Road Traffic Safety*Law*of the People's Republic of*China, when accidents occur between pedestrians or non-motorised vehicles and motor vehicles, except for the case where the pedestrian or the non-motorised vehicle deliberately causes the incident, the motorist must always bear responsibility."

Not sure I'd call that communal social concern.

That's why you see people jumping out in front of slow moving cars in China on dashcam videos. Payday!

I'm not sure I believe that everyone has an inherent understanding of the dangers of electricity either. I'm OK with NEMA boxes.

As far as lifejackets go, rules are good, as they provide a standard and an expectation to follow.

Heavy handed enforcement of the rule I am not fond of. Using the enforcement of the rule as a revenue stream is even worse.

If boaters had actual license, the ability to take an opportunity to teach and inform, and let off with a warning makes sense. Further infractions could be met with fines.

27 years ago, I was riding along with police reservist friend of mine in Poulsbo, WA. He pulled a guy over for not having a car seat for his toddler daughter. Second time that week. His excuse was he couldn't afford one. He pulled out his wallet (and some of my money too) and gave him $100. Told him to go buy one and pay him back if and when he got the cash. Or you can get a ticket.

The guy did buy one, and paid him back within the week, and was friendly (and law abiding) to him for years after. I think all four of us involved learned something that day.

I know there are free loaner life jackets at some of the local boat launches now.

I guess if we as a society made it easier for people to understand and do the right thing, maybe more would.

I think it goes back to educating and licencing boaters.

I try to drive my car as safe as possible and wear my seat belt, am careful going down the stairs at my house, and I pay attention to other cars while walking through a parking lot or crossing the street. Life has inherent risks. Not saying wearing a PFD is a bad idea, but it's the other stuff that is much more likely to get us in the long run.

BruceK said:

It is similar, which is good, safety should not change at State boundaries.I could not find a definition of "open". The rules seem to be part of a table, which uses the word "open". I doubt fencing would change anything, my guess is it means "not in an enclosed cabin" or something like that, somewhere you cannot end up in the water. You could easily get washed over rails or lifelines, especially in a well heeled boat.

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Yes, I expect that the bow would be considered an open area on almost any boat.

I expect the cockpit would not be considered "open", although I have been hit by a breaking wave in the cockpit. It had enough force to knock me overboard had I not had a firm grip on a handrail.

It's tough to legislate to cover every possibility. There have been many times when I don't feel a PFD is enough protection. I use a harness and lanyard to ensure I am at an acceptable level of safety. There has been one or two occasions when even that is not enough to go on deck.

On a motorboat, gratefulness is not having to go on deck to
reef/take-down sails when weather gets serious.