Unknown Motorsailor

This boat showed up in the Coral Gables Waterway across from a boat I keep an eye on. It just struck me as a very pretty boat. Does anybody recognize it?

There are two masts laying on the deck. There is what looks like a builders mark consisting of two crossed flags with something written under them. The hull appears to be wood. There is damaged paint on the side. Probably hurricane damage.

I think it looks better without masts than it would with them up, but that's just me.

I don't know what it is but I know I'm luvin it .
Cheoy Lee maybe ?

Possum II might be a bit of a fixer upper but she sure has style. Early DeVries??

It looks very similar to a Philip Rhodes Motorsailer.

Looking at pictures of various Motorsailors I think the flat transom sets this one apart from most of the others. Rounded transom or a canoe stern seems more common on motorsailors.

The flat transom makes this one look more powerboat than sailboat to my eye.

The house looks like it got snached off a Pacemaker cruiser and perhaps shortened.

Hi Dave, both you and Coolbeans suggested that it looked like a Rhodes design. Tad Roberts suggested the same thing on my Facebook page. We may have a winner but I'm not sure how we'll confirm it.

Drive around and talk to the owner, he owns a trawler , he will be friendly.

I went back for another look and it was gone. If I see someone in the yard I'll ask. One neighbor said it was a replica of Pilar, but it's not even close to Pilar. Emilio Estevez has a really nice replica of Pilar that he keeps in South Florida.

Correction, Andy Garcia owns the Pilar replica.

It is a Palmer Johnson, and the owner has a connection to Andy Garcia, who owns the PILAR replica. I am afraid I have forgotten the name of the boat, but I know she is a Palmer Johnson. She was shown at Ocean Reef Vintage Weekend a few years ago.
Best,
Maldwin

Thanks Malden. I was hoping to get down to the vintage weekend this year but I understand it was canceled because of the hurricane.

HopCar said:

Looking at pictures of various Motorsailors I think the flat transom sets this one apart from most of the others. Rounded transom or a canoe stern seems more common on motorsailors.

The flat transom makes this one look more powerboat than sailboat to my eye.

Click to expand...

Hi,

You're right she's cool and beautiful, but unfortunately, the boat loses part of its intended stability when the masts are removed out.

This would be good to take into account the conserve work, possibly lighten the keel weight, but the sea architect can calculate it.

NBs

Howdy, i just saw this picture on google. She’s mine. She’s a 1954 Palmer Johnson. I’m currently well into the restoration process. She’s one hell of a vessel.

So.. I have always liked the idea of a motorsailer. There was one at my marina last summer, he was just leaving to do the Loop. As far as I can remember he didn't even have a mast. Most that I have seen don't have a mast.

Can you actually sail a motorsailer? Or is sort of a get home sail or stabilizing sail. I once heard that it is impractical to attempt to sail any vessel with a fixed prop.

pete

Hi Pete,
The Motorsailer concept is the best of all boating worlds in my opinion. Yes, they can be sailed, and yes they can motor, but they come into their own with both motor and sails running simultaneously. They are designed to be used with the engine running and engaged at all times. So, in this case (as per design) the three bladed prop is a virtue. The Sails are designed to stabilize the vessel and provide additional lift to ease fuel consumption and provide "get-home" propulsion. I love the concept, and perhaps in another lifetime, I would have one built. ?

Pete Meisinger said:

Can you actually sail a motorsailer? Or is sort of a get home sail or stabilizing sail. I once heard that it is impractical to attempt to sail any vessel with a fixed prop.

pete

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The way I always understood it, there is no "one" motorsailer, hence no one answer. In other words, let's say a powerboat is 100% motorboat, and a sailboat is (or can be if there is no engine or it is not in use) 100% sailboat. Motorsailers are not necessarily 50% of both but rather the ratio can vary.

So one motorsailer could be a 70/30 (power/sail), one could be a 50/50 or etc.

I have even sailed a twin-engined motorsailer that was nearly a normal sailboat when sailing (or at least much closer than you'd expect). Sailed great without the engine much of the time (was even a centerboarder).

Another dividing line in my mind is can a motorsailer tack through the wind under sail or does it need to wear ship or do a motor-assisted tack.

At the most extreme, I wouldn't even put a power vessel with a steadying sail in the motorsailer category.

For myself I figured I'd probably just choose a trawler and then carry a sailing dinghy. But then again I was watching a video of a Nordhavn motorsailer on its way from Florida to Panama and while it was trundling along, heeled and under sail it brought back a visceral desire to sail an ocean again. Probably didn't hurt that while I had sweated away sailing in the tropics (ugh), they were cool as cucumbers in the air-conditioned pilothouse

PS: Virginia Reel is a beautiful boat

Here we are motor-sailing along. Mostly motoring, just the jib up because not much wind. It’s nice to be able to go into the pilot house and turn on the AC when it gets too hot.
https://youtu.be/j5Slw7Mr8c8

Crossing to the Bahamas with the sails up, engine in gear idling. I say we are going 6kt but looks slower than that!
https://youtu.be/N4ioIsClZUU

My motorsailer

The mast was snapped and the rigging torn loose during hurricane Irma, I’ve only motored her this far but she cruises nicely at 8kts and I’ve pushed her as far as 14. I had to demast the boat to get her in the waterway. Once all hull repairs are completed ( a slow and meticulous process due to my inexperience) the boat will be moved and she will sail again. The previous captain said you could hardly get a single knot out of her without the engines in gear.
Mast stands 25’ off the deck

Captaindeets When I took the picture she was across the canal from the Chris Craft Speedy Lee that belongs to a friend of mine. Last time I checked it looked like you had moved her a few houses up the canal and across to the east side. She is a beauty and I know all of us here on Trawler Forum would love to see some more pictures. When this crazy period is over, I’d love to get a tour.

I love our Cheoy Lee 46 LRC. But if someone wanted to give me a Cheoy Lee 52 motorsailer, I would not turn it down!

My last boat was a 52' Rhodes motorsailer. With her 85-Hp Perkins, she could motor
at hull speed and under sail only could easily exceed hull speed with a decent wind.
That boat had a steel hull, a 16' beam and displaced 30T.
It's really more about the designer's ability in making a boat that can do both well.

Motorsailers / Len





https://www.facebook.com/groups/motorsailers/?ref=bookmarks


http://www.xente.mundo-r.com/motors...oE0KCTrCyn6p0VhmddSXe76L9K47VzTG8dIyVRRXlFpKA

Today with modern construction a motor sailor can be a 90/90.

The 100% sail hull only has to pay for the weight of the engine & installation some fuel and perhaps the drag of the prop. Most "pure " sail boats 30-50ft would have some sort of tiny engine anyway.

As a power boat the hull is certainly optimized for under hull speed operation, the drag of the keel and far larger rudder , and the air drag of the mast & rigging should only cost 10% or so.

The biggest hassle for a 90/90 is the sail hull interior can not match the volume of a bloat boat , 2 /or 3 stories tall with an oxygen tent on top.

As few want a world cruiser the choice for most is easy, Until the motor sailor is BIG!

Pete Meisinger said:

So.. I have always liked the idea of a motorsailer. There was one at my marina last summer, he was just leaving to do the Loop. As far as I can remember he didn't even have a mast. Most that I have seen don't have a mast.

Can you actually sail a motorsailer? Or is sort of a get home sail or stabilizing sail. I once heard that it is impractical to attempt to sail any vessel with a fixed prop.

pete

Click to expand...

As someone wlse has opined, there is a lot of variability, because the line between motorsailer and "auxiliary sailboat" is never defined.

I have on two occasions chartered a Finnish-built Nauticat 44 ketch, which the builder and charter company refer to as a motorsailer. Because of the relatively high freeboard and the generous pilothouse, it tended to make a fair amount of leeway going to windward. Otherwise, an excellent sailer in all respects.

Quite capable of hull speed under power or sail.

If i ever acquire the resources to trade up, this would be my first choice.

Captaindeets said:

Howdy, i just saw this picture on google. She’s mine. She’s a 1954 Palmer Johnson. I’m currently well into the restoration process. She’s one hell of a vessel.

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Welcome to the forum!

Sailing a proper motorsailer

Does a motorsailer sail?
This question has come up at various time in this thread, the answer is yes or it should .
Check out this you tube ‘sailing Bora bora’ a classic 1974 Victory 40 design by be de stadt that recently did a complete circuit of the North Atlantic under sail and motor .
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTtSXrAkjrB_0_f27bkcU0oXmmQ9PPYal
Lovely couple , lovely story, lovely boat, enjoy
Cheers Warren
Here she is sailing in the trade winds at about 7 knts!

Edit: Ha I just saw that I posted a similar response back in April! I'll leave this up anyway.

Our last boat was a 52' 30 ton motorsailer designed by Phil Rhodes.
She sailed like a sailboat until maybe 45 degrees from the wind.
The 16' beam made it hard to beat any closer than that.
Her hull speed was 8 knots and she could manage that in 15 or so knots of wind aft.

That photo of a double headsail with furled main reminds me of how I spent
most of the 17 days it took to get to Hawaii from King Harbor in 1981!

KnotYet said:

Edit: Ha I just saw that I posted a similar response back in April! I'll leave this up anyway.

Our last boat was a 52' 30 ton motorsailer designed by Phil Rhodes.
She sailed like a sailboat until maybe 45 degrees from the wind.
The 16' beam made it hard to beat any closer than that.
Her hull speed was 8 knots and she could manage that in 15 or so knots of wind aft.

That photo of a double headsail with furled main reminds me of how I spent
most of the 17 days it took to get to Hawaii from King Harbor in 1981!

Click to expand...

Your 17 day Hawaii trip sounds like quite the adventure! I sometimes dream of long voyages like that, but then I snap out of it and realize I don’t really want to do that. I’ve motorsailed to the Bahamas a few times, and that’s enough for me currently.