Inside Helm: Needed or Not? & Entry Door Beside Inside Helm:. Needed or Not?

My AT, as do all others, have a port and starboard pilot house doors with a window that slides up and down. There are plenty of ATs out there with fly bridges, not mine.

North Baltic sea said:

Hi,

I think the side of the door can be partially replaced by a wireless remote-controlled bow and stern strusters, I mean you get the time to twist the rear door and can keep the boat attached to the berth, exaple single hand sail.

Maybe more invest and this system Yacht Controller - Wireless Remote Control of Your Yacht

NBs

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I had a Yacht Controller on our previous boat. It controlled the engines, thruster, and anchor windlas. I run solo a lot, so it made tieing up the boat and other tight maneuvers much easier. Using it for anchor deployment and retrieval was also a benefit.

the Yacht Controller looks expensive.

We seldom use our flybridge, much too uncomfortable when we are rolling in a beam sea. Lower helm, stbd. side door works for us.

Do you prefer blonds or brunettes? Steak or lobster?

I have upper and lower (not true pilothouse) helms. Lower has poor forward and aft visibility. I've used it a couple of times just to prove the controls work. Upper has unrestrcited 360 sight lines.

I boat in a sub-tropical climate. F/B is open with a bimini - despise oxygen tents. Deck access from F/B has steps, not a ladder. Single handing is easy.

I have no mission critical requirements.

Yep - I rock'n'roll sometimes with a beam sea. Catch some rain on the F/B with a storm.
I guess, as a former blow boater, I'm used to it. Actually, I kind of like the weather - Type II fun.

Figure out what's important to you (and significant others) that will max your use and enjoyment of the boat.

But, I would caution, forget the idea of "adding a door" or other such mods. Yeah, it can be done. Sufficient infusions of time and money can probably turn a goat into a cow. Likely, though, it's not worth it and you probably will not enjoy the end result.

Buy the boat that satisfies your needs right out of the chute - there's plenty out there.

As time goes by I find the need for both lower helm and door. The knees, shoulders and back are going south so the bridge gets used mostly when at anchor.
On a long solo run the side door is a must have. I told you things are going south.

ScottH said:

Ahoy Y'all. Still trawler shopping for something in the 40'-44' range.
Question # 1: I've been pretty sure that one feature I definitely want is an inside helm. But I've seen a bunch of boats that were gorgeous, that we would have bought in a minute, except that they had no inside helm.
Question # 2:. Of the boats we've found that had an inside helm, some had an entry door right next to the helm station. Others did not. Any thoughts about how important that side entrance is?

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Well, Scott, I think if you added up the votes, the answer is yes on both counts. Better to have both than not, essentially, and I totally endorse that also.

To my mind, the only sort of boat that one might argue only needs the upper helm, is if it is one not likely to be taken that far off shore. So no long cruises through mucky weather - day sailing mainly. Also, access up there must be quick and easy, and the boat ideally be able to go faster than most of ours on here. Why? Because those boats feel so much smoother on the semi-plane, they are not affected nearly as much by waves and wakes, as they skim over them, rather than roll with them. But even so, come getting caught out in mucky weather, and they would long for a lower helm.

The down side to this type is the folk up on the flybridge seem blissfully aware of the havoc they can often create behind them, because it all feels so smooth to them. So, unless they've travelled previously in slower boats, and been rocked violently by passing semi-planers, (full planers of smaller size not so much), they probably don't even realise what they are leaving behind them. This is not a dig at anyone, but just an observed fact, as I'm sure it is usually unintentional. We have on occasions been rocked so badly by a wake I hate to think what might have happened if we had been up top at the time. Worse still, if in transition from up to down or vice versa, and not seen it coming in time to take the evasive action we usually resort to. However, something to be remembered is in a seaway, they are coming at you all the time, not just in groups of 3-4 like wakes.

OldDan1943 said:

My AT, as do all others, have a port and starboard pilot house doors with a window that slides up and down. There are plenty of ATs out there with fly bridges, not mine.

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Hi,

With a slight change and a movable bench, you could have ... see what a surprise I have in my Fux.



NBs

Fletcher500 said:

I had a Yacht Controller on our previous boat. It controlled the engines, thruster, and anchor windlas. I run solo a lot, so it made tieing up the boat and other tight maneuvers much easier. Using it for anchor deployment and retrieval was also a benefit.

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I believe this, I asked the bid from yatch control the importer here in my NT and it was unfortunately so expensive here, about $ +8,000 installed, it was for me too much money vs. potential benefits.

If you have extra cash, then surely the Yacht control fine device will be used in many situations and will make the single hand operation really easy.

NBs

ScottH said:

That's exactly my thinking. As a soon to be ex-sailor I always set my boats up so I could single-hand them. Knowing I could 'get it don't all by myself in a pinch always gave me great peace of mind.

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It's not impossible without a lower helm, with or without side door. There are occasional conditions where I might have to wait it out before docking at a transient marina... but usually it's easy enough. (Note, though: I have stairs from the flybridge, not a ladder.)

ScottH said:

That makes lots of sense to me. It seems to me that being up on a fly bridge in big seas might get really exciting. Not to mention if it raining and cold.

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Yeah, long end of the pendulum swing. Usually mitigated by advance weather planning.

ScottH said:

Being able to get from the helm to the anchor quickly is of major importance to me. Not to mention getting to the dock lines as fast as possible when tying up.

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As above; not usually a big deal.

ScottH said:

Been thinking about how I could install a heating​ system on a flybridge on whatever boat we buy.

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Conceptually trivial, although the details could beat you up a bit. It's not uncommon to have a reverse cycle AC/heat unit servicing the flybridge. Retrofitting could be more difficult for routing ducting and raw water cooling, but usually not impossible. Maybe easier in a model where AC/heat on the bridge was an option offered for the original build.

Or household split systems mounted on a hardtop could maybe work; several threads about those on here, most commonly cited con seems to be exposure to salt air...

-Chris

I would think the simplest way to heat the briddge would be a basic electric heater, since the only time you are up there the engine will be running, so you've got plenty of power available.

You could also just install a vented hatch in the salon roof/bridge floor.

Love the lower helm and side door on our Beneteau ST44, especially when the seas are rough. And the door makes it super easy to single hand (and also provides great ventilation on a nice day).

But of course, we are in San Francisco, with weather that practically begs for a lower helm at times.

Inside helm is nice to have even in your climate to get out of a shower and to be with others while eating. Space should not be an issue in the size boat you are looking for, either. If I saw a boat that I really liked at a good price, and it had hydraulic steering, I would consider adding a BASIC lower "helm" for those few occasions. Steering, engine/transmission controls, small compass, idiot lights if no alarms above, autopilot shutoff. Nothing more. KISS

I see a lot of vessels with a lower helm that has such poor comfort and forward visibility that they are almost useless as a helm. It's obvious the fly was where the boat was designed to be run from.

When shopping for my boat, one had pilothouse doors on both sides and one had it only on the starboard side. I desired both sides but the seller priced that boat out of reach for me and I wound up with one door. Now I realize on a boat the size of mine there would have been no benefit to doors on both sides and more air leakage would have been the result.

It is cold enough up here that only one PH door and a cored cabin are both pluses for heat retention. I am really pleased that I was able to find a PH design in a boat that I could afford, I was almost ready to settle for a NT. NT's are nice, but too much windage, too much power for the speeds that I want to run at, and premium price.

AKDoug said:

... Now I realize on a boat the size of mine there would have been no benefit to doors on both sides and more air leakage would have been the result. ...

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Air leakage? Wouldn't be any with rubber seals and securing dog latches.

Not that kind of door, it's a slider. Hung from the top on rollers in a grooved bottom rail, someday an upgrade to UHMW over the teak but it is what it is for now. It doesn't leak unless the wind is hard from the starboard side... There is a gap at the back for the latching mechanism to be able to slide the door further back.

I had exactly the same problem when I closed up the isinglass side curtains during a rainstorm coming into Beaufort, NC. We had to choose between not being able to see a darned thing, or getting soaked and cold. Wasn't a fun few hours!

markpierce said:

Air leakage? Wouldn't be any with rubber seals and securing dog latches.

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That's an awesome boat you have. Looks like the very best of both worlds.

aboatman said:

A side door becomes more important as the boat gets longer. On a small boat it only saves a few steps of going out the back. And if you have a partner to handle bow chores, it doesn't make a difference at all.

The point someone made about using the lower helm in rough seas is a good one. Rocking is a lot less severe at the lower helm than on the flybridge.

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Single handing my Cal 39 down the ICW, there were more than one occasion when it was a Very long run from the helm up to the bow to drop the hook in strong wind and currents. I always prepared the anchor for the drop ahead of time, but I had to run back to the helm and reposition the boat more than once because it drifted off station before I could get up front and met the anchor go. And that was a direct run from the stern to the bow. If you add the distance out through an aft cabin door, around and down a couple of steps, and then finally up to the bow, it could get interesting. It doesn't sound like much, but when seconds count that can add a significant amount of time.

markpierce said:

Air leakage? Wouldn't be any with rubber seals and securing dog latches.

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There's a huge difference between a $200,000+ passagemaker and a $50,000 coastal cruiser. If I had to shell out $200K to enter this game, I and many like me would still be sitting on the shoreline looking at boats longingly. Instead, we're out on the water enjoying them...air leaks and all.

FlyWright said:

There's a huge difference between a $200,000+ passagemaker and a $50,000 coastal cruiser. If I had to shell out $200K to enter this game, I and many like me would still be sitting on the shoreline looking at boats longingly. Instead, we're out on the water enjoying them...air leaks and all.

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Absolutely right Al, and in our part of the world a bit of air leak is good, even in what passes as winter her. Freshens the air, and we never get condensation. I call it nature's aircon. However I sure do love that pilot side door for many other reasons. Just leaning half in and half out as one passes some interesting scenery, and for sussing out a good possy in an anchorage makes it worthwhile, let alone the extra air flow it allows to vent hot air out of the closed up boat, especially when you first open her up. Oh, and for easy single-handing, docking, anchoring, getting a great look behind to see if there's a damn semi-planer about to guzzump you...anything I left out..?

Peter B said:

and for sussing out a good possy in an anchorage

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Wifey B:

I'll add my vote for a flybridge and a lower helm with sliding door access to a decent sidedeck. Ours is a Europa sedan with galley up, a nice back porch but no second cabin nor head. It's what we decided we wanted and what we were lucky enough to find (the double cabin layout is much more common). We'd been aboard DC boats, did not want all the stairs but did want the direct easy connection from galley to salon and back porch.

We prefer driving from the lower helm while we're in the slip or tight quarters. Visibility is fine for me but the seating is tight/terrible; the driving position is worse for the admiral since her legs do not extend to the sole when she's seated. Access to the deck is great when docking; we both have our duties and we're on hand for each other. Access to the deck is important when single handing.

We prefer driving from the flybridge once we're out in open waters. The lack of complete engine instrumentation on the FBis a queer and original feature, not to be tolerated for long. Actually, the lack of the ability to know about something dreadful happening in the ER is true from both the lower helm and the flybridge and not to be tolerated for long, either.

BandB said:

Wifey B:

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For sussing out a good possy

or in other words

For having a look about to find a location in which to drop the anchoring device (which may or may not be a rocna or one of the lesser brands)

Another way to put it would be that he was having a butchers hook to find a grouse spot

Brisyboy said:

For sussing out a good possy

or in other words

For having a look about to find a location in which to drop the anchoring device (which may or may not be a rocna or one of the lesser brands)

Another way to put it would be that he was having a butchers hook to find a grouse spot

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Wifey B: Can you translate "possy" for me please?

position

FlyWright said:

position

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Wifey B: Now, I get it.....Australian drop endings and add new shorter one. I wasn't thinking of the Australian language.

Well, except...the Australian Dictionary I use shows it as Pozzy with z not s. No wonder I was confused.

BandB said:

Originally Posted by Peter B
and for sussing out a good possy in an anchorage
Wifey B:

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BandB said:

Wifey B: Can you translate "possy" for me please?

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Wifey B, I'm disappointed inyuh. What happened the much vaunted female inchooishun we hear so much about, eh..?

PS. Thanks for translatin' guys...

PPS. Possy is the Kiwi spelling. Pozzy is the Oz way, for obvious reasons.

Possy/Pozzy is spoken rather than written. Never thought about writing it, but I`d go with "possy". Even in Ozzy. Eh bro?
D Trump would not like either, but hey presto, change a letter, that`s just perfect.

FlyWright said:

There's a huge difference between a $200,000+ passagemaker and a $50,000 coastal cruiser. If I had to shell out $200K to enter this game, I and many like me would still be sitting on the shoreline looking at boats longingly. Instead, we're out on the water enjoying them...air leaks and all.

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You can get one with sealed doors for USD $57,000 if you don't mind a long cruise home.

https://marineauctions.nextlot.com/public/sales/80676/lots/17273556