Liability Insurance..How Much $

What should I expect to pay for the minimum liabilty policy for my 1981 42' Formosa trawler? I need to take it into a boat yard for engine work...

First, you need to know how much insurance you need or want. Then, you might as well call your agent and ask him/her.

Liability insurance won't be cheaper for an older boat.

Liability is usually not too bad as a stand alone requirement.

But different yards require different amounts and not sure if they may need some additional coverages too.

Best to call the yards you might go to and ask.

Seens like $500,000 is the new norm from $250.000 and I believe some are requesting even more.

Read the fine print and ask! Named storms seems to be the typical exclusion recently.

The problem with liability insurance is you don’t know what you will be parked next to. We have a situation here we’re an old boat with the required $300,000 liability insurance was parked next to a new $2,000,000 boat. The old boat caught fire and burned the new boat. Insurance company is now going after old boat owners assets including their home.

Check with Boat us, just paid $95.00 for our 73 MT 34'

what_barnacles said:

Read the fine print and ask! Named storms seems to be the typical exclusion recently.

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From a liability policy?

tiltrider1 said:

The problem with liability insurance is you don’t know what you will be parked next to. We have a situation here we’re an old boat with the required $300,000 liability insurance was parked next to a new $2,000,000 boat. The old boat caught fire and burned the new boat. Insurance company is now going after old boat owners assets including their home.

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It is precisly that reason that I carry 2M in liability insurance on the boat and another 1M in a personal umbrella policy.

A lottle off topic, but auto insurance is worse. Carry the minimum, I think 300K and get into a fatal or serious injury at fault accident.

I can bet that if you damage or kill a high wage earner that their spouse will try to sue for their anticipated lifetime earnings, if you have assets that make the suit worthwhile.

ksanders said:

I can bet that if you damage or kill a high wage earner that their spouse will try to sue for their anticipated lifetime earnings, if you have assets that make the suit worthwhile.

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Yep, like a boat, for example.

tiltrider1 said:

The problem with liability insurance is you don’t know what you will be parked next to. We have a situation here we’re an old boat with the required $300,000 liability insurance was parked next to a new $2,000,000 boat. The old boat caught fire and burned the new boat. Insurance company is now going after old boat owners assets including their home.

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And that demonstrates the wisdom in having liability insurance. Old boat, new boat, cheap boat or expensive boat. You could have a $1,000 jon boat and face a $2,000,000 liability claim. You could lose your home, your car and your retirement. You, your wife and your children could be living in a refrigerator box under a bridge.

In many cases, you can buy an umbrella policy that takes over above the limits of your boat, auto and home liability insurance. It's not expensive and provides peace of mind.

Often umbrella insurance is tough to get if a liveaboard and no other insurance except a car....and some of us dont even have one of those (by choice).

Even then limited ceilings may not be enough to protect you from all lawsuits.

So at some point you are exposed...just a matter of how much more you are willing to complicate your life. And even then you might not be able to get insurance to cover in excess of a million which seems attainable these days by most.

psneeld said:

Often umbrella insurance is tough to get if a liveaboard and no other insurance except a car....and some of us dont even have one of those (by choice).

Even then limited ceilings may not be enough to protect you from all lawsuits.

So at some point you are exposed...just a matter of how much more you are willing to complicate your life. And even then you might not be able to get insurance to cover in excess of a million which seems attainable these days by most.

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Perhaps I should have explained an "umbrella policy" (also known as "excess liability policy") better.

Suppose, like most boat owners, you have a home, one or more vehicles and a boat. Suppose, based on your situation, you determine that one million dollars in liability insurance is appropriate. Rather than paying for one million dollars coverage on each of these, you can save premium costs by insuring each for $300K and buying an umbrella policy to cover the additional $700K. In effect, you are insured for one million dollars on each risk but you only pay for $300K plus the umbrella premium.

You could also do this if you just had vehicles and a home or a boat and vehicles.

If you have only a boat (or only a car or only a home), you would just insure that risk for one million dollars. An umbrella policy wouldn't be applicable in this case.

Of course, your insurance agent is in a position to help you determine what is best in your particular case.

My last experience with an umbrella policy, used to have one, I could not get the coverage I wanted and to switch out all the singular policies was a PIA.

Anyway, my real point is you never know what the upper number you might need really is, its just a guess.

Many people risk manage their exposure carefully and opt for lower insurance than try to hit a moving target.

Marinas and Yacht Clubs on the Canadian side of the Great lakes will not even rent you a slip or allow you to have your vessel in a slip without 2 million CDN liability insurance.
Reciprocals arriving at our club must sign a declaration to this effect and our reciprocal list of 71 clubs all have the same policy. One very prominent club, Royal xxx Yacht Club, was just discovered to have a 1 million requirement and their bridge has been informed to upgrade or lose reciprocal privilege.
Some Loopers need to keep this in mind if they intend to take advantage of free nights on their voyage.


The cost difference between 300K and 2 million coverage is peanuts.

Umbrella policies covering a boat become difficult to obtain in some US states if the boat is going to leave the United States and Canada. Both in Indiana and Illinois I found it difficult to find an insurance company that would cover Bay Pelican on a liability policy once Bay Pelican was in the Caribbean.

A second problem for those who venture outside of their home countries is to make sure that the policy covers you for incidents outside of your home country and will defend you outside of your home country. I am aware of policies which claim to protect you world wide but the protection is there only if you are sued for a determination of liability in your home country. Thus under such a policy if a US citizen is involved in a collision in Mexico and is sued in Mexico the policy will not cover.

I have Geico. For 1973 36 trawler I pay $149 a year. It is simple and painless. I do live aboard.

Wow! What a deal! I heard it goes up dramatically over 40'.. Maybe time to downsize

Bigfish said:

Wow! What a deal! I heard it goes up dramatically over 40'.. Maybe time to downsize

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I think it goes up dramatically depending on whet levels and types of coverage you have.

My yacht policy on my sportfish was half with navigation limits of only the Chesapeake and Delaware Bays. The minute I wanted Atlantic Ocean, it doubkes or I had to carry a rider when there.

That makes sense. When I bought my trawler in 2013 I had full coverage for the boat at $50k plus I was covered in the bahamas. Total was $2600/year but that's a little steep for my current financial situation..

However, had I known what Irma had in store for me...

Florida sounds like it is hurting you on thar $2600. Live north of Jax until after hurricane season and you could easily knock almost a grand off that.

Hmmm

tiltrider1 said:

The problem with liability insurance is you don’t know what you will be parked next to. We have a situation here we’re an old boat with the required $300,000 liability insurance was parked next to a new $2,000,000 boat. The old boat caught fire and burned the new boat. Insurance company is now going after old boat owners assets including their home.

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Yikes! We have one boat in our marina that the owner paid $7,000,000 for. I know the boats next to him don't have that much liability insurance (I don't either.).

From experience if the old boat owner had had more than the required $300,000 insurance, say a $1,000,000 umbrella, the damaged boat owner's insurance company would have accepted the full insurance amount and not have gone after the old boat owner's personal assets. The old boat owner did save himself perhaps $150 in premiums by not having an umbrella policy.

Bay Pelican said:

From experience if the old boat owner had had more than the required $300,000 insurance, say a $1,000,000 umbrella, the damaged boat owner's insurance company would have accepted the full insurance amount and not have gone after the old boat owner's personal assets. The old boat owner did save himself perhaps $150 in premiums by not having an umbrella policy.

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That's fine if your boat just burns one boat down. The last marina fire in one of our local marinas resulted in one boat catching fire and burning three other boats. Imagine the fire spreading to five or ten boats. The truth is, that probably no one on this board is insured enough for worst case scenarios and boating mishaps.

What's the highest liability coverage anyone here has? We're all kind of crossing our fingers and hoping. Some are just hoping harder than others.

Group 9

It would be rare for an individual to have enough insurance to cover the worst case. Covering the claim is not as important as providing enough coverage so that the insurance company (ies) covering the other boat(s) damage feel that it is not in their best interest to chase the personal assets. Two factors come into play. An immediate offer of $1,300,000 (or $2,300,000) without huge legal fees is better than attempting to collect possibly an additional $500,000 from private assets but paying legal as you go along. Second as strange as it may seem there is a business reason for an insurance company not to bankrupt the individual who bought the $1,000,000 or $2,000,000 umbrella. Just not good publicity nor does it generally play well with juries.

Bay Pelican said:

Second as strange as it may seem there is a business reason for an insurance company not to bankrupt the individual who bought the $1,000,000 or $2,000,000 umbrella. Just not good publicity nor does it generally play well with juries.

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That may well be your experience, but my observations of insurance companies after Katrina is that their common view is that bad publicity goes away a lot quicker than a bad bottom line does.

Fuel spills can get very expensive very quickly.

psneeld said:

My last experience with an umbrella policy, used to have one, I could not get the coverage I wanted and to switch out all the singular policies was a PIA.

Anyway, my real point is you never know what the upper number you might need really is, its just a guess.

Many people risk manage their exposure carefully and opt for lower insurance than try to hit a moving target.

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You shouldn't have had to switch out any policies. It just lays on top of them, whatever they are.

You are correct that you never know the upper limit you need.

One way to look at that is not in terms of what someone might sue for. They might sue for $100 million. However, what do you think they would settle for. Most who sue for $5 million would settle for $1 million and those who sue for $10-15 million would settle for $5 million. Even those who sue for $100 million would be happy to settle for $10 million now without further litigation.

Loss of life or earning capacity or pain and suffering are the big items with no clear definition of their value.

Check carefully the fine print in an umbrella policy, many won’t insure a boat with HP over a certain limit.