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Insurance. This is what it is for and a part of owning a boat. Not prepared for the full cost of owning something then don't buy it. Want to save money and not get insurance then roll the dice. Save your insurance money but put it aside for when you have to accept responsibility for the consequences of losing the bet.

With a boat it is the boat, a place to keep it, running costs, maintenance/upkeep, and... INSURANCE. Don't have money for one of those? Don't buy the boat. I'm WAY on the homeowners side on this one.

As for the "poor rich boy" comments, please. You are just jealous.

It's hard to throw blame at someone here, considering this was an act of God and no one really knew exactly what would happen.

But certainly the homeowner had no blame. And I could argue he can protect his property from harm and do whatever he wants to get rid of the boats, and have no liability. He's not improperly moving it, he's protecting his property. Now, it would be prudent to work with the guy trying to move his boat, but the other three? Heck no.

And, unlike a few posts here, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being rich. Try it, you'll like it.

Seevee said:

It's hard to throw blame at someone here, considering this was an act of God and no one really knew exactly what would happen. .

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Act of God in insurance terms maybe, but it should an expected outcome for a smart person who buys coastal property in hurricane country. Like Ski says, have a sawzall, backhoe and Bobcat event afterwards. Then move on hoping lightning doesn't strike twice in your lifetime.

Ski in NC said:

Storm debris is a fact of life. You clean it up. That these boats are rather large and have owners identified means that they might assist with removal. But if they will not or can not assist, do what it takes to clean things up.

Can't advise on any legal barriers that may exist prior to getting the sawzall and bobcat crew to work.

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But that part you can't advise on is what makes this completely different than other storm debris. It's not branches, roofs off houses. It's also an item the owner may consider of real value, not trash. One boat owner indicates he wants to retrieve his boat so you definitely can't dispose of it, a second owner lives on his so you can't and wouldn't dispose of it, a third owner refuses to communicate and he may be the scariest of all but not one you can dispose of, the fourth owner appears to have relinquished his rights to you, but even there you better be sure there is no lien on that boat.

Four boats, all appear to be the same situation, but no two really the same. One is clearly not abandoned, one is abandoned. The other two are very much to be determined still.

Send the owners a letter that their rent is $2000.00 per month. It will mount upand then you can take possession.

sunchaser said:

Act of God in insurance terms maybe, .

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As a side note, there are boat owners and even insurers perhaps claiming that. I don't know what any of your marine policies say, but ours do not have an act of God clause, not on hull damage, and not on liability. You think about it and it makes sense that if they don't have a storm exclusion then clearly they cover some acts of God. Our policies very clearly cover damage to our boats and to others that occur as a result of so-called acts of God.

The basic policies do exclude acts of war but then we have war coverage added.

The acts of God aspect is referred to far more than it's actually in place. Think about it, if you have windstorm coverage on your house then you're covered for an act of God. If you have flood coverage then for another of them. Acts of God on property are generally excluded only where specifically excluded.

I'm far closer to the homeowner's status than the boat owner.

BandB said:

The basic policies do exclude acts of war but then we have war coverage added.

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Well, you guys have me beat. I don't have any War Coverage. however, if my boat causes somebody damage during a war I am fully prepared to take responsibility. I just hope they don't launch a nuke from it. I may have to just sign over title on that one.

firstbase said:

Well, you guys have me beat. I don't have any War Coverage. however, if my boat causes somebody damage during a war I am fully prepared to take responsibility. I just hope they don't launch a nuke from it. I may have to just sign over title on that one.

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I first became aware of war coverage years ago with company planes where we had it on both the planes and cargo but also on the pilots. I carry it today because I learned that insurers have been known to stretch the definition of war as far as they could, far beyond those events we officially label as wars. That might even include the random action of one man who is from one of the many countries involved in war today.

While I feel for the property owner, I guess I don't see how it's different that any other 'act of God.'

If the neighbor's tree falls, in a storm, on your house, car, trailerable boat, then it becomes your problem. This is one of the reasons that we have insurance.

If the damage is caused by someone's negligence, then there is fault. Again, however, this is why we carry our own insurance to protect from this situation as well.

As PR was mentioned early is thread, the situation on the ground is still a royal mess. Most of the islanders (about 80%) still do not have power. A greater immediate health concern is potable water. The official published number is that 75% have water, but that is grossly over-inflated, as this is access to water, not actually having water at their houses. Access means that you can drive your car (if you have one or it still runs) and bring home the water you need. Makes it hard enough to get water from drinking, cooking, and flushing the toilet. Makes it really hard to have enough water to bathe or wash clothes (and remember the storm was more than 5 weeks ago!) Really hard to do if you are elderly or disabled.

In Aguadilla, on the northwest corner of the island where my in-laws live, there is NO electricity, NO running water, and spotty cell-phone service (kudos to AT&T for setting up some mobile cell towers) on the island.

I believe that the situation in the USVI's is equally as bad.

This being on an island thing is hard. One can't just hop into their car or truck and take supplies or drive loved one's home. State-side it is difficult to even send supplies. There currently is no way to send something like a generator unless you have your own plane. Shipment by USPS is also far from normal. The shipping of packages (even priority) takes a minimum of 21 days, if the packages even get there as many are being lost of pilfered.

My wife and I are going down next week for a couple of days to check-up on my in-laws in person. Both are in the mid 80s (he is a Korean war vet). While from a property standpoint they were fortunate there was no major damage (concrete house with concrete roof), we are concerned about their health. We have purchased (2) one-way tickets to bring them state-side for a while (kudos also to Jet Blue who capped all ticket prices from the day after the storm until November 15th!)

Jim

JLD

We applaud your involvement and that of others with Puerto Rico. We've tried to be active as well and met some challenges but hoping for a little progress. Our efforts have been helped at least by the fact the Aguadilla airport is open and usable.

In many ways the conditions in Puerto Rico are only worsening. There are many times more lives lost as a result of Maria than any numbers reported as only those that can be directly attributed to the storm and certified are being counted. There are many times more of people with medical needs who weren't receiving their treatment and have died or persons experiencing medical events but no help available, of persons dying from weeks of stress and exposure. The funeral homes can certainly tell you how much their work has increased.

We hope just to bring a few jobs back there but every day we see more and more signs that various companies have no intention of resuming production. Sadly with the Jones act and some predatory pricing, we can move materials in and out as cheaply by air as we can by water right now. With changes in US tax laws as they pertain to Puerto Rico, the benefits that led to Pharmaceutical and Apparel manufacturing are gone. Apparel is mostly gone already and now 70% of remaining manufacturing was Pharmaceutical. They never would build there under current tax laws and energy and freight costs and I wonder how many will remain.

My past experience in Puerto Rico was on the west side with Aguadilla, Rincon, Mayaguez, Lajas, Aguada. I have never done manufacturing in any location, US or foreign, with better or more dedicated workers than Puerto Rico.

There are 21 states with fewer residents than Puerto Rico. Would any of them have been left to suffer the same?

Apart from other aspects of this discussion, it should be noted that many (most?) architects are just working stiffs who do not make so much money to be categorized as millionaires.
I am not one, but I do l know two, one of whom owns a 44ft (sail) boat.

BandB said:

I first became aware of war coverage years ago with company planes where we had it on both the planes and cargo but also on the pilots. I carry it today because I learned that insurers have been known to stretch the definition of war as far as they could, far beyond those events we officially label as wars. That might even include the random action of one man who is from one of the many countries involved in war today.

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I had an Act of War exclusion. I made sure the broker added the word 'declared' to the policy. A declared act of war is a very rare and unusual event on this side of the hemisphere and is clear enough that I know I won't go blundering in to one.

McGillicuddy said:

I had an Act of War exclusion. I made sure the broker added the word 'declared' to the policy. A declared act of war is a very rare and unusual event on this side of the hemisphere and is clear enough that I know I won't go blundering in to one.

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We actually got war coverage and it wasn't expensive. Our only exclusions are specifically named areas which would typically include known war zones and areas of high piracy. The list periodically changes and those exclusions can be removed in a rider for a price. A high one.

Seems odd beating up on a "rich" guy. I own a small business and work hard. If I make money why am I a bad guy. Expecting the "rich" to bail out people that don't take responsibility is ridiculous. So tired of the "give me" mentality of many.

Sorry officer, those damn kids started a bon fire.