Pretty or functional?

As I hone my ideas for the future it looks like I will sell my 36 foot C&C sailboat for the trawler. Tough choice as I love that boat.


BUT, I want a trawler that will cross an ocean, and a vessel that a charterer will think is beautiful. I need tanks of 1,000+ but like those lovely fantail boats.

So, a Nordhavn 62 would be great, but I have a ceiling of $300,000. So, Fantail 50 with smaller tanks, or a Seaton 50 in steel with big tanks but less aesthetics? Or maybe a diesel duck 50? All priced around the same but very different boats.

Thoughts?

Welcome to the trawler world, it's a great place to be!
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I've seen and been aboard the Seaton and I have to say the overall utility and "salty-ness" of the Seaton was beautiful to me.
Also, you say you need tanks of 1000+, but i'd suggest that range and fuel efficiency can vary on these kind of boats so you might not want to limit yourself with this specific parameter. it might be better to calculate the range of xxxx nmi you desire, then let this dictate how large the tanks are based on the efficiency of the boats you're looking at.
Enjoy the hunt and there's lots of smart people on here that will likely chime in

There are 3 Hyatt 50 fan tails on YW right now 250k to 265k . Not sure about ocean crossings though .

Z
To meet your budget the only blue water trawler that comes to mind is a Buehler Diesel Duck. Have you checked them out?

I ran puker boats when I was young, but found I didn't have the personality. My current boat was a PNW charter boat for about 30 years. Licensed for 50 day and 12 overnight + crew. All the prior owners either went broke or poured money into a loosing business. When I bought the boat, there was a $20,000 dock bill pending and a ton of maintenance to do. Make sure you know the business. To be successful you need repeat business. I don't believe there are many people willing to pay to cross an ocean in a small yacht. For lubbers it's boring or scary and not really fun. Especially if they're seasick, too.
Most yachts aren't finished for heavy traffic. Light weight carpet, tile, door hardware that fails with heavy use and wood paneling and trim is hard to clean and usually means refinishing or redoing. 50' is a little small for ocean crossing. Fishing boats do it, but they're built for the job, to survive in the ocean and not built at a price to be competitive in a yacht market. I can make Hawaii from the West Coast, but either have to travel at 7-8 knots or carry fuel bladders and I tank 2000 gallons. It's 10 days at normal speed or 2 weeks at economic speed. Sometimes the ocean is very nasty. Often without much warning.

If I was going to cross oceans and had $300K for a boat (a bit on the light side BTW) I would buy a

Hatteras 48 LRC
Or a Krogen 42
Or a Willard 40 pilothouse

Or look for a deal on a N46

I happen to know of a nice Hatteras 48 LRC for sale by a old friend in the California Delta right now with an asking price of $165K I think

At 1390 gallons of fuel, and slowing to 6 or 7 knots I’m guessing you can get a 2600NM + range out of the boat. Much further than necessary to circumnavigate.

2savage said:

BUT, I want a trawler that will cross an ocean, and a vessel that a charterer will think is beautiful. I need tanks of 1,000+ but like those lovely fantail boats.

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An unusual combination. So, what ocean do you intend to cross and where do you hope to have it up for charter?

Cheoy Lee have been building beautiful ocean going boats for a long time, well before Norhavn or Krogen ever thought of such a thing. There are some lovely 50'-65' round stern trawlers, both single an twin screw, out there.

There are 2 Nordhavn 40's in FL on Yachtworld that are very close to $300k. What's another $50k among friends????

Get your budget up a tad and go with the proven ocean crossing brand (Nordhavn) and a network that will stand behind their boats (even older brokerage ones).

Richard Bost on Dauntless (a KK 42) has been over and back on the Atlantic side.
And beyond. He'd be a good person to talk with privately and you can read his blog.

www.dauntlessatsea.com

South of Heaven said:

There are 2 Nordhavn 40's in FL on Yachtworld that are very close to $300k. What's another $50k among friends????

Get your budget up a tad and go with the proven ocean crossing brand (Nordhavn) and a network that will stand behind their boats (even older brokerage ones).

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He's not yet indicated what oceans but he mentioned Nordhavn 62 which I think could be a good choice for crossing oceans. I would not consider a Nordhavn 40 to be so, in spite of all those who will say it has done this and that. Examined more closely the 40 just isn't enough boat, in my opinion, and apparently not in the OP's.

2savage said:

As I hone my ideas for the future it looks like I will sell my 36 foot C&C sailboat for the trawler. Tough choice as I love that boat.


BUT, I want a trawler that will cross an ocean, and a vessel that a charterer will think is beautiful. I need tanks of 1,000+ but like those lovely fantail boats.

So, a Nordhavn 62 would be great, but I have a ceiling of $300,000. So, Fantail 50 with smaller tanks, or a Seaton 50 in steel with big tanks but less aesthetics? Or maybe a diesel duck 50? All priced around the same but very different boats.

Thoughts?

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Yep to your thoughts question.....

Why are you thinking trawler versus sail if long distance voyaging is a must?

Economical trawlers like mine are usually passed by sailboats under sail, so dont think long range trawlers are much faster if that is remotely an issue.

I find your budget to be adequate for older trawlers that can do the job, but to upgrade them to ocean going standards will chew up much of the rest unless you are creative and do all/most of the work yourself.

Doubtful your budget will also include "charter pretty" and oceanworthy.

A quick thought would be, what about a big sailing cat?

Yes it can be done....but my experience says oceangoing only to the point of extended coastal cruising. Which can mean most of the western hemisphere if you start here.

But true ocean voyaging takes a stout soul and risk management that most wont undertake. Adventureres will, but that is what gets so many into trouble.

Another wayward thought is like Lepke suggested..... take a commercial vessel and remake or a one off trawler that someone built/had built but is having trouble selling so it is going for a song for what it is. Either can be an expensive search and upgrade situation.

In summary, give up aestetics if serious about crossing the ocean unless "Herreshoff simple" is pretty enough for your business model..... but in reality pulling it all together is more longshot than probable without serious budget consideration. Or....it may happen over a period of time...not just a turn key solution.

BandB said:

He's not yet indicated what oceans but he mentioned Nordhavn 62 which I think could be a good choice for crossing oceans. I would not consider a Nordhavn 40 to be so, in spite of all those who will say it has done this and that. Examined more closely the 40 just isn't enough boat, in my opinion, and apparently not in the OP's.

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What is it specifically about the Nordhavn 40 vs let’s say their 46 that is not much bigger and has dozens of documented ocean crossings?

We plan to do some long term cruising on an N40 and although it may be uncomfortable at times didn’t consider crossing an ocean out of the question. The company did it in 2002 in a basically stock 40 footer - sure a publicity stunt of sorts - but seemed to prove the boat is capable.

That said, I can’t find any documentation of people crossing an ocean in one outside of supported rallies and such.

terrapin_sd said:

What is it specifically about the Nordhavn 40 vs let’s say their 46 that is not much bigger and has dozens of documented ocean crossings?

We plan to do some long term cruising on an N40 and although it may be uncomfortable at times didn’t consider crossing an ocean out of the question. The company did it in 2002 in a basically stock 40 footer - sure a publicity stunt of sorts - but seemed to prove the boat is capable.

That said, I can’t find any documentation of people crossing an ocean in one outside of supported rallies and such.

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I personally consider it too small and you indicate may be "uncomfortable at times", I'd anticipate it could be miserable at times. I've known a lot of people struggle with crossing in 46's. Go back and read Nordhavn's biggest promo ever, the 2004 Atlantic Rally. Read some of the logs of the trip published on non Nordhavn sites. Now the owner of the only 40 on the trip termed it "a blast." I just think you really benefit from a little extra length on such an undertaking. I also would do it in a KK42 before a Nordhavn 40, although I wouldn't do that either.

It's one thing to do it with professionals manning all areas from helm to engineer and even professional medics along. It's another to do it as most do.

Understand the lead boat in the rally and one that had the best and easiest time was not a Nordhavn, but a 90' Monk-McQueen.

In the 2017 passage, the smallest boat was a Nordhavn 52.

As to 46 or 47, I find them smaller than I'd choose too, but as far as not being much bigger, I'd note this. The 46 is about 20% bigger than a 40. The 47 is much larger than the 46 in displacement and volume. A few feet in length, some beam, some depth, some weight, all add up quickly in that size range.

The OP said, Nordhavn 62 and otherwise mentioned 50'+ boats. I think he's on target there with preferences.

I don't consider "making it there" to be a successful crossing. Obviously "unsuccessful" if you don't make it. However, I consider successful to be enjoying the trip and wanting to do it again sometime.

terrapin_sd said:

We plan to do some long term cruising on an N40 and although it may be uncomfortable at times didn’t consider crossing an ocean out of the question. .

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One needs to define crossing an ocean. Do you mean trans-atlantic or trans-pacific or a short ocean passage. If you go to Bermuda, you've technically done an ocean crossing perhaps, but I don't consider it crossing an ocean until you arrive in Portugal or Ireland or elsewhere in Europe.

BandB said:

One needs to define crossing an ocean. Do you mean trans-atlantic or trans-pacific or a short ocean passage. If you go to Bermuda, you've technically done an ocean crossing perhaps, but I don't consider it crossing an ocean until you arrive in Portugal or Ireland or elsewhere in Europe.

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After going north to Alaska from where we live in SF bay and then down the west coast of North America we’ve been considering either going through the canal and over to the Caribbean and eventually across to the med via Bermuda and the Azores. A more recent idea would be Mexico to the marquesas. That leg would likely require some deck fuel for an adequate safety margin but to me it doesn’t seem like too much for the boat. We have active fin stabilizers and paravanes. Not in any hurry but we hope to see as much of the world as possible.

terrapin_sd said:

After going north to Alaska from where we live in SF bay and then down the west coast of North America we’ve been considering either going through the canal and over to the Caribbean and eventually across to the med via Bermuda and the Azores. A more recent idea would be Mexico to the marquesas. That leg would likely require some deck fuel for an adequate safety margin but to me it doesn’t seem like too much for the boat. We have active fin stabilizers and paravanes. Not in any hurry but we hope to see as much of the world as possible.

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Be sure your stabilizers are well serviced prior to the trip. That was the leading failure on the 2004 crossing.

My thought is, if you have to limit the boat cost to $300K, you may not be able to afford a lot of ocean crossings. Unlike a sailboat, you have to burn fuel for every mile you travel. And there are other expenses like oil and filters.

Some people ship (on a ship) their boats across the ocean if the want to boat in far away places. They say it's cheaper and puts less wear and tear on the boat.

My point is, before you plunk down that $300K on a boat, make sure you can afford to run it. Figure in the maintenance and slip costs as well. And taxes.

How about a converted ex-Navy patrol boat with a 2000 nmi range and likely room for much larger fuel tanks?

YP655

Hamrow said:

How about a converted ex-Navy patrol boat with a 2000 nmi range and likely room for much larger fuel tanks?

YP655

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Wifey B: I'm not going to set off across an ocean in a 60 year old wooden boat.

BandB said:

Wifey B: I'm not going to set off across an ocean in a 60 year old wooden boat.

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Yeah, no problem. You should take a bunch of bags of concrete mix to tidy up the big hull leaks as they happen.

And 4 x of 1958 motors might get it interesting in the ER too.

Hamrow said:

How about a converted ex-Navy patrol boat with a 2000 nmi range and likely room for much larger fuel tanks?



YP655

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Love that boat. But price I think is too high and accommodations are, shall we say, spartan. Wouldn't be a hot charter boat I don't think.

BandB said:

Wifey B: I'm not going to set off across an ocean in a 60 year old wooden boat.

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Maybe this one then. It has a West System epoxy coating on the hull. I have been all over it and it is structurally near perfect. The owner wants to take it from North Carolina to the islands next month and I volunteered to crew with him.

McGillicuddy said:

Maybe this one then. It has a West System epoxy coating on the hull. I have been all over it and it is structurally near perfect. The owner wants to take it from North Carolina to the islands next month and I volunteered to crew with him.

View attachment 69740

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Wifey B: I'll wait to hear from you after the trip.

http://www.boats.com/power-boats/1986-cheoy-lee-66-long-range-cruiser-5765119/#.WfODOZE8KhB

This might be exactly what the op is looking for. I believe price will be negotiable to be within his range.

BandB said:

Wifey B: I'll wait to hear from you after the trip.

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Yeah, well it's mission is to become a floating accommodation unit for housing recovery efforts. So for me it's worth while.

The boat just completed a 10 day trip from St. Petersburg FL to Wilmington without a single hitch. It was originally built as an offshore head boat but has been in private use for a while. Friend of mine bought it and has gone through everything. Its a good sea boat.

McGillicuddy said:

Yeah, well it's mission is to become a floating accommodation unit for housing recovery efforts. So for me it's worth while.

The boat just completed a 10 day trip from St. Petersburg FL to Wilmington without a single hitch. It was originally built as an offshore head boat but has been in private use for a while. Friend of mine bought it and has gone through everything. Its a good sea boat.

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Wifey B: That is very worth while. So, good sea boat but being taken off the sea and kept docked?

Hope it's very successful as recovery housing.

I think the plan is to keep it at anchor and move it to needed areas as found necessary. When finished with hurricane duty my friend wants to put it in charter as a fishing or dive boat. Can sleep 10.

BandB said:

An unusual combination. So, what ocean do you intend to cross and where do you hope to have it up for charter?

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Atlantic. I need 1,800 range (plus 10% safety) for the longer stretch to the Azores from Bermuda.

To answer someone else's question, I have no intention of hosting a paying guest on a transatlantic passage. Charters would be New England in summer, maybe carribean in winter but my family is in Europe so I may move there to cruise the Western Isles of Scotland, and other areas of Scandinavia where I have more family.


With regards to my abilities, I have completed maybe 15,000 offshore miles in my current boat with the longest passage being 1,400 miles from NYC to Key West in November. But I'm getting old (62) and don't want to be doing a headsail change on the foredeck at night in 35 knots and 15 foot seas. So, I think power is the way to go.

2savage said:

Atlantic. I need 1,800 range (plus 10% safety) for the longer stretch to the Azores from Bermuda.

To answer someone else's question, I have no intention of hosting a paying guest on a transatlantic passage. Charters would be New England in summer, maybe carribean in winter but my family is in Europe so I may move there to cruise the Western Isles of Scotland, and other areas of Scandinavia where I have more family.


With regards to my abilities, I have completed maybe 15,000 offshore miles in my current boat with the longest passage being 1,400 miles from NYC to Key West in November. But I'm getting old (62) and don't want to be doing a headsail change on the foredeck at night in 35 knots and 15 foot seas. So, I think power is the way to go.

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You do know there are sailing vessels that are all power raising, furling, lowering, stowing sails...whatever the method?

Still think you are right at the limits for what you want to do and what your budget is.