New Outboard motor - what brand?

ranger42c said:

FWIW, they seem to get mixed reviews, across the 'net...

-Chris

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You're right Chris - I did a lot of reading before I bought, and saw those mixed reviews. Took the plunge anyway, and glad I did - a happy customer. And although the top speed is not fast, they sure shoot off the start line quick!

ranger42c said:

I had no luck with Sta-Bil (either formulation) nor any other aftermarket product, when we were trying to keep our 2-stroke outboard running with E10. The only solution I eventually gravitated toward was strict recycling old gas and refilling with new after 3 weeks of non-use.

Ditto with the gas leaf-blower at home. Nothing seemed to work. Although a 32V electric replacement shines pretty well these days.

-Chris

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I found the key for working well is to put it in the tank and let it run for a while to totally circulate through the entire system.

Seafoam with some techron additive and I'm using super with no problems. Used reguler last year to see if a change and yes there was. My pickup screen in my tank kept having a flakey gel clog it up. Back to super this year no problems at all.

smitty477 said:

The early Crestliners that could reach 40 mph were running 75 Hp engines and the smaller ones equipped with 40 hp were said to 'reach 30 mph".


Here is one of many links for those that might have interest....
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=14&ved=0ahUKEwj09oy6qfPWAhUHZCYKHdrCDSAQFghhMA0&url=http%3A%2F%2Fretrocrestliner.com%2F1962%2520crestliner%2520catalog.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3sdPQPzwDq6Y-FCHlIXRgF

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You're such Nay Sayers! All without having been aboard nor experienced or even seen a certain boat and engine perform! You can read plenty of different stats from manufacturers and owners and from that say as you like. However, I and my wife and some friends know what our little 14'8" Crestliner with 50 Johnson can and does do.

Visit http://retrocrestliner.com/1962%20crestliner%20catalog.pdf

THEN - - > Scroll down about 60% of the way. Read about a boat extremely similar to ours, i.e. Crestliner's Mustang "14" Deluxe. Text says: "... reaches 20 mph in six seconds with three aboard and 25 hp range motor... will top 30 mph with 40 hp motor [seemingly with 3 aboard].

Then - - > You [without any personal first hand knowledge of a boat's performance] tell me that with 50 hp and just me aboard our little Crestliner runabout that it will not do 39 mph... on a GPS readout at slack tide!!!!!

Please: Don't you have something better to do than to spend time contradicting what is GPS recorded fact???

gaston said:

This new Tohatsu LPG 4 stroke could well be worth consideration ??Tohatsu 5hp Propane LPG

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It`s heavy at around 28kg, my 2 stroke Tohatsu 6hp is around 18kg. You might check the negative comments on Lehr LPG/propane outboards too. I`m happy with my petrol/gasoline Tohatsu.

BruceK said:

It`s heavy at around 28kg, my 2 stroke Tohatsu 6hp is around 18kg. You might check the negative comments on Lehr LPG/propane outboards too. I`m happy with my petrol/gasoline Tohatsu.

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The Lehr LPG/propane outboard are cheap Chinese copy rubbish same as the ones BCF sell here in Australia

David Rive said:

You're right Chris - I did a lot of reading before I bought, and saw those mixed reviews. Took the plunge anyway, and glad I did - a happy customer. And although the top speed is not fast, they sure shoot off the start line quick!

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And even the the rep thing, I've been keeping those in the back of my mind for a canoe project, one day. Along with Minn Kota. More for auxiliary help upstream, versus main propulsion. Battery weight and recharging become an issue with the Minn Kota... probably less of an issue withe the Torqeedo.

IntervaleII said:

I found the key for working well is to put it in the tank and let it run for a while to totally circulate through the entire system.

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Sure. Did that. No particular joy...

Our situation made more complicated by our infrequent use... I'd even use our dinghy more often at our home marina, except we're blocked in at the slip, no way to launch directly (i.e., without moving the mother boat first, launching, moving the mother boat back). In any case, I'd expect more frequent use would have made much more of a difference to whether the various additives worked or not...

-Chris

gaston said:

The Lehr LPG/propane outboard are cheap Chinese copy rubbish same as the ones BCF sell here in Australia

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Reminds me, there are some outfits out there that will deliver a Yamaha portable generator converted to run on propane... and I've seen instructions for doing the same kind of conversion with Honda generators. Wouldn't surprise me if there's a way to convert many small gas outboards to propane...

-Chris

Art said:

You're such Nay Sayers! All without having been aboard nor experienced or even seen a certain boat and engine perform! You can read plenty of different stats from manufacturers and owners and from that say as you like. However, I and my wife and some friends know what our little 14'8" Crestliner with 50 Johnson can and does do.

Visit http://retrocrestliner.com/1962%20crestliner%20catalog.pdf

THEN - - > Scroll down about 60% of the way. Read about a boat extremely similar to ours, i.e. Crestliner's Mustang "14" Deluxe. Text says: "... reaches 20 mph in six seconds with three aboard and 25 hp range motor... will top 30 mph with 40 hp motor [seemingly with 3 aboard].

Then - - > You [without any personal first hand knowledge of a boat's performance] tell me that with 50 hp and just me aboard our little Crestliner runabout that it will not do 39 mph... on a GPS readout at slack tide!!!!!

Please: Don't you have something better to do than to spend time contradicting what is GPS recorded fact???

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Hello Art,
You would really like my Chevy Crew 5.3 pickup - -
I have some pretty accurate readings with this new to me truck.
I get right at 29 per gallon when its just me in the truck.
When towing my #5,000 boat/trailer on the open road I get right at 23 per gallon.
Once when I was alone I opened it up on the highway and reached 168 but it was a bit 'loose' and scary with it being a truck so I backed it down quickly.
I can assure you that those figures are pretty accurate and reproducible....

Every disagreement doesn't have to be an argument to the death, IMO. When some people disagree with others why do they feel the need to attack with guns blazing?

I have a friend who believes the moon landing was faked. I disagree, but I don't attack and ridicule him like my life depends on it. What does that help? My friend is not in a position to hurt anyone with his opinions, so I don't see why I should try to expose them as false.

Now, when an elected official or some kind is "leader" is spewing erroneous facts that can really hurt others it's a different story. They need to be debunked vigorously.

Maybe I'm just asking why we can't be nicer than we are.

smitty477 said:

Hello Art,
You would really like my Chevy Crew 5.3 pickup - -
I have some pretty accurate readings with this new to me truck.
I get right at 29 per gallon when its just me in the truck.
When towing my #5,000 boat/trailer on the open road I get right at 23 per gallon.
Once when I was alone I opened it up on the highway and reached 168 but it was a bit 'loose' and scary with it being a truck so I backed it down quickly.
I can assure you that those figures are pretty accurate and reproducible....

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Hi smitty

After you read my post #94 [hopefully, and especially, the scroll down portion on Crestliner link mentioned and quoted]... which basically proves capability of our little Crestliner to reach the GPS readings I've stated... You are so funny with this post of yours that I simply cannot stop laughing.

cardude01 said:

Every disagreement doesn't have to be an argument to the death, IMO. When some people disagree with others why do they feel the need to attack with guns blazing?

I have a friend who believes the moon landing was faked. I disagree, but I don't attack and ridicule him like my life depends on it. What does that help? My friend is not in a position to hurt anyone with his opinions, so I don't see why I should try to expose them as false.

Now, when an elected official or some kind is "leader" is spewing erroneous facts that can really hurt others it's a different story. They need to be debunked vigorously.

Maybe I'm just asking why we can't be nicer than we are.

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Dude,
It's back to the old ford chevy crap. Or "my dad can beat up your dad".

But it's a very prevalent thing here on TF. How many times have you seen a thread titled "What's the best radar". As though if you bought anything but brand A you would perrish on a rockpile. There's lots of products .. good products. You can buy what you want and not crash and burn.

Perhaps it's some form of insecurity. You'd think at our age one wouldn't need protection from that but as you say Dude why argue about what product is best when it's likely that even if one knew what's best another product would be better suited to your own needs.

In some ways we never grow up and I guess this is one one of them.

I am old. Had internal combustion engines since 10 years old. Lawnmower. Number one aggravation are carbs. Get a Suzuki with fuel injection and comes with a 6 year warranty or a Yamaha if u spen a lot of time in the Bahamas since the dealer network for Suzuki is weak there. I am noticing the commercial boys seem to be sporting new Suzuki’s of late

Art said:

Hi smitty

After you read my post #94 [hopefully, and especially, the scroll down portion on Crestliner link mentioned and quoted]... which basically proves capability of our little Crestliner to reach the GPS readings I've stated... You are so funny with this post of yours that I simply cannot stop laughing.

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Art - if you read post 94 and lay those figures out on any typical speed / fuel / hp graph you will see that 21 mpg and 39 mph are not within a realm of possibility.
But if you look into the statistics on my current Chevy crew cab the answers may lie within those accurate numbers - yes the answer may be there.
Or conversely find any boat made that is similar to your older Crestliner that has a set of specifications that can come close to the ones you think are accurate.
You have made mention that you are very familiar with these older outboards - what is the gear ratio and prop specs on your current 50 hp?

cardude01 said:

Every disagreement doesn't have to be an argument to the death, IMO. When some people disagree with others why do they feel the need to attack with guns blazing?

I have a friend who believes the moon landing was faked. I disagree, but I don't attack and ridicule him like my life depends on it. What does that help? My friend is not in a position to hurt anyone with his opinions, so I don't see why I should try to expose them as false.

Now, when an elected official or some kind is "leader" is spewing erroneous facts that can really hurt others it's a different story. They need to be debunked vigorously.

Maybe I'm just asking why we can't be nicer than we are.

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Cardude- I agree with you. This section is titled 'power systems" and this post is about choosing an outboard motor and what the tradeoffs are when making those choices. As people read these posts they will eventually make choices on an outboard and outfit their dinghy/support boat based upon some of these inputs. Those inputs will then become part of their expenses, planning and expectations for those boats in the future. If someone really believes that they will be getting near 21 mpg they could have problems with their expectations of the boat or even get into trouble not knowing the real numbers. Posting links to the various engine manufacturer bulletins on the actual fuel use per mile and the actual speeds expected will hopefully lead to a better results when folks search for a new dinghy/ support boat/ outboard.
I do hope that if you search for a engine or engines boat combination that you can use the links to make a best choice for you and your boating experience.

Nomad Willy said:

Dude,
It's back to the old ford chevy crap. Or "my dad can beat up your dad".

But it's a very prevalent thing here on TF. How many times have you seen a thread titled "What's the best radar". As though if you bought anything but brand A you would perrish on a rockpile. There's lots of products .. good products. You can buy what you want and not crash and burn.

Perhaps it's some form of insecurity. You'd think at our age one wouldn't need protection from that but as you say Dude why argue about what product is best when it's likely that even if one knew what's best another product would be better suited to your own needs.

In some ways we never grow up and I guess this is one one of them.

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FF - it is actually nothing about Ford vs Chevy at all. It is an accurate set of specs that most folks would view as impossible with their knowledge of general trucks , mileage and speeds on land.
But the surprising thing is that these figures are very accurate as they are reported here.
The problem is that is this case the units of measure are not in Miles or Nautical miles but in Kilometers. So flipping my GPS and the trucks built in mileage computer over to KPH has given us much different numbers that are now much more believable.
I remember the first time on my trawler when I looked down and saw the kph speed reading but did not realize the units had been changed.

We can use current test reports to help choose a future engine that best fits our needs.
I have picked Yamaha as one example only since they are mentioned a lot in this thread - you can just as easily look up the performance specs on other brands such as Evinrude and Honda.
The best part is you can pick the boat that the engine is tested on and see the resultant speeds, mpg etc with a boat that approximates the ones you are contemplating buying.
For examples only here are a few RIBS that have these tests done
with the Yamaha outboards:


Zodiac 340 RIB with 25 Yamaha - 310# boat / 11.39 mpg @20 mph / 26.7 WOT
https://yamahaoutboards.com/en-us/h.../f25/pb_zna_340bayrunner_f25la_2014-08-04_inf


Zodiac 420 RIB with 40 Yamaha - 400# boat / 11.62 mpg @ 24 mph / 34.3 WOT
https://yamahaoutboards.com/en-us/h.../f40/pb_zna_420bayrunner_f40la_2010-03-18_inf


Zodiac 550 RIB with 70 Yamaha -695# boat / 8.5mpg @ 22 mph / 37 WOT
https://yamahaoutboards.com/en-us/h.../f70/pb_zna_550bayrunner_f70la_2010-07-21_inf

And here is the lightest flattest aluminum boat I could find with a quick look...
Alumacraft with 40 Yamaha - 604# boat / 11.5 mpg @18 mph / 31.7 WOT
https://yamahaoutboards.com/en-us/h...0/f40/pb_alm_escape145cs_f40la_2016-06-01_alm


I hope that these or similar outboard manufacturer engine links can help folks select the best fit outboard for their intended use and help with their expectations for a happy boating experience.

smitty477 said:

Art - if you read post 94 and lay those figures out on any typical speed / fuel / hp graph you will see that 21 mpg and 39 mph are not within a realm of possibility.
But if you look into the statistics on my current Chevy crew cab the answers may lie within those accurate numbers - yes the answer may be there.
Or conversely find any boat made that is similar to your older Crestliner that has a set of specifications that can come close to the ones you think are accurate.
You have made mention that you are very familiar with these older outboards - what is the gear ratio and prop specs on your current 50 hp?

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Smitty - No time remaining to continue this sparing match! Let's agree to disagree! You ever want to play the $!K bet I mention in a past post... Jump on it my boating friend.

Art said:

Smitty - No time remaining to continue this sparing match! Let's agree to disagree! You ever want to play the $!K bet I mention in a past post... Jump on it my boating friend.

Click to expand...

You have a product that is no longer available and therefore cannot be a part of anyone's future purchasing decision.
The folks having to decide on newer outboards and newer boats that go along with them have some pretty detailed methods to research their potential purchases.
I would say that the engine and boat bulletins will afford a great way to clearly define what the engines/boats will and will not do for their applications.
When you read and compare enough of these tests and then have a chance to own a few of the tested packages and see how close the tested data is you realize the value of these tests.

Hello Art,


In case it may come in handy and you do not have some of this information here are a few data points on your 1975 50Hp Johnson...
- 1975-2006 small gearcase ratio is 2.42:1
- engine is rated for 4500-5500 rpm
- largest diameter prop is 12.5"
- Largest pitch prop available is 17"
- Prop pitch range is 8" to 17"
- Most would guess the prop slip angle to be 8-10% best case

We have a (~2010) 15hp Nissan that came with our dinghy, then i learned all small US Nissan outboards are actually made by Tohatsu. Then Nissan got out of this market in 2014.
Tohatsu also makes small (I believe less than 20hp) outboards for Evinrude.

We haven't had any problems with this Nissan but to be honest, we've barely used it.

I just strayed into this anchor discussion. A mug's game.

If you have been paying attention, you should realize that the 2 cycle outboard game is the fastest changing technology on the boating world right now, with Evinrude way out in front. The technology wouldn't have made it to market ordinarily, but the big guys at Bombardier have managed to pull it through and we now have a viable 2 cycle technology that will survive in the present EPA climate.
Not only do they perform well and meet EPA requirements, they do so on the crappy fuel presently offered.
I don't speak of low hp 2 cycles, as I have no experience with them. In the higher hp, 300 or so, the Evinrude is producing very low emissions, high hp per gallon, good reliability, low noise.......everything you want.

Now back to regular programming: when I went to replace a Merc 15 2 cycle on my dinghy, the new Merc dealer didn't have anything light weight with a little more than the 15 I had before so he sent me to the Yamaha dealer to look at a 2 cycle 20. The Merc guy told me that the Yammy was the best thing on the market at that time, and would do the job I wanted it for with good reliability. I bought one and was very pleased with it until selling it and moving to a larger dinghy with a 40.

That one is a Honda. I have now owned it 7 yrs. I did need to buy a new prop, due to my own fault, digging clams with it. I put new plugs in this past summer, just because the old ones were 13 yrs old, not due to any hesitation in performance. I also changed the oil in the low end this year, again only due to age. One day soon I will do the engine oil too, for the same reason, though it looks perfectly good. At the end of every season I run it dry, by unplugging the fuel line, though I have seen discussions where guys swear that isn't necessary on EFI engines. It always starts within seconds, after being idle for over 6 months. I get a consistent 25 knots at WOT, the alternator keeps the battery up through hours of idling while I pull prawn traps. There is nothing about this outboard I would change.

Keith,
I looked for a Honda but the 25hp is still carbureted.

Hamrow said:

We have a (~2010) 15hp Nissan that came with our dinghy, then i learned all small US Nissan outboards are actually made by Tohatsu. Then Nissan got out of this market in 2014.
Tohatsu also makes small (I believe less than 20hp) outboards for Evinrude.

We haven't had any problems with this Nissan but to be honest, we've barely used it.

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I have a Nissan (Tohatsu) 9.8 and after 2 full years it is a very very good running engine - no issues whatsoever. Small Mercury engines are also made by Tohatsu.

Ken

smitty477 said:

You have a product that is no longer available and therefore cannot be a part of anyone's future purchasing decision.
The folks having to decide on newer outboards and newer boats that go along with them have some pretty detailed methods to research their potential purchases.
I would say that the engine and boat bulletins will afford a great way to clearly define what the engines/boats will and will not do for their applications.
When you read and compare enough of these tests and then have a chance to own a few of the tested packages and see how close the tested data is you realize the value of these tests.

Click to expand...

They're quite a few little runabouts of similar age, size/style and in good condition sold on Craigslist... a least in SF area that is.

smitty477 said:

Hello Art,


In case it may come in handy and you do not have some of this information here are a few data points on your 1975 50Hp Johnson...
- 1975-2006 small gearcase ratio is 2.42:1
- engine is rated for 4500-5500 rpm
- largest diameter prop is 12.5"
- Largest pitch prop available is 17"
- Prop pitch range is 8" to 17"
- Most would guess the prop slip angle to be 8-10% best case

Click to expand...

Thanks!

Hi Henry, 1st! NO Ethanol! Non.oxy fuel only! My Boat is an 11' Zodiac w oversized tubes. Motors...1st was a '97 15hp 2strk Merc. Great motor but needed a lot of maint. 2nd was a '07 15 hp 4strk Merc. Way TOO hvy, ran like a p.o.s. Now? I am running a 25 hp YAMAHA 2strk. w elec start. Bought brand new as a non.current. LOVE IT !! Will put 4 people in boat up on plane, but usually just wife and I. Did I say non.oxy fuel !!!! Nobody should buy cheap gas station fuel w ethanol to save pennies !!! Love my Yamaha, but hear the Evin E.tecs are really good also. Thanks for listening. Pelly

I installed a Suzuki DF25ATL2. I have bought and started it with 90 octane Non-Ethanol gasoline.

HenryD said:

I installed a Suzuki DF25ATL2. I have bought and started it with 90 octane Non-Ethanol gasoline.

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Sounds great, thanks for info. How do you like the Suzuki? Not too familiar w them. Guessing you like the 25hp ?

In our runabout's 50 hp. 1975 carbed Johnson I've used all levels of gasoline types... mixed or not. Just keep putting couple ounces Berrymans B-12 Chemtool in each 6 gal tank about every other fill-up. Bet it would work well for injectors too