Automatic Fender System
- Thread starter FlyWright
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Now that explains my boot stripe being still in need of a good scrubbing.
sarditi
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Hi Guys, I'm the developer, let me provide some replies:
1. BandB is correct: we do NOT go on the bow any more. The Automatic Fender is handling the fenders and we tie the bow from the dock. We do NOT leave the cockpit to dock any more. In boats 24 to 45' this is a HUGE advantage. Adds safety and eliminates hassle. Not relevant to all boats only to some percentage.
2. WesK is correct: we developed to support our own need. I started and sold 3 successful companies, made plenty of money, moved to live on the water and that was a great problem to solve. We have a 21' Nautique and a 31' Ciera. Hanging the fenders in the Ciera was very inconvenient.
3. TomB thought that it is a tiny tiny market and so did I. It was more to serve boaters than to make money. The assumption was that even tiny percentage is a reasonable business as we are the only manufacturer of this product with very strong patents to keep it that way....
4. But both TomB and we were wrong. We went to a neighborhood show that included some boats and 60 units got ordered. We just came back from a real boat show - a small to middle size one in San Pedro CA and have 100 more ordered (40,000$s in a weekend...). The market is not small at all.... We will be selling to small percentage of boats but not tiny tiny percentage. Small percentage is a good business for a family owned company ....
5. This is my last company and I am not trying to make big money here, just to make sure it is a sustainable business.
6. One of my previous businesses was ASIC for SmartPhones. We went to some Nokia executives trying to sell them the vision but they did not buy into emails and calendar on a phone. We all know what happened in that market. Technology always wins. It always takes time. There are always skeptics and you only need a tiny tiny percentage to get it rolling.
7. At some point we will buy boats that will have them integrated. We had to start with PDAs to create a market for SmartPhones. SmartPhones didn't happen over night.
8. Thanks to WesK and others who are wishing us luck. It is OK to be skeptical, I learn most from skeptical people. Please remember all boats raise together with tide and wish us luck
9. My name is Sam Arditi, you can google to see that I am not BS-ing.
IT IS REALLY FUN BEING PART OF THIS CONVERSATION, THANKS FlyWrite for starting it and inviting me in.
1. BandB is correct: we do NOT go on the bow any more. The Automatic Fender is handling the fenders and we tie the bow from the dock. We do NOT leave the cockpit to dock any more. In boats 24 to 45' this is a HUGE advantage. Adds safety and eliminates hassle. Not relevant to all boats only to some percentage.
2. WesK is correct: we developed to support our own need. I started and sold 3 successful companies, made plenty of money, moved to live on the water and that was a great problem to solve. We have a 21' Nautique and a 31' Ciera. Hanging the fenders in the Ciera was very inconvenient.
3. TomB thought that it is a tiny tiny market and so did I. It was more to serve boaters than to make money. The assumption was that even tiny percentage is a reasonable business as we are the only manufacturer of this product with very strong patents to keep it that way....
4. But both TomB and we were wrong. We went to a neighborhood show that included some boats and 60 units got ordered. We just came back from a real boat show - a small to middle size one in San Pedro CA and have 100 more ordered (40,000$s in a weekend...). The market is not small at all.... We will be selling to small percentage of boats but not tiny tiny percentage. Small percentage is a good business for a family owned company ....
5. This is my last company and I am not trying to make big money here, just to make sure it is a sustainable business.
6. One of my previous businesses was ASIC for SmartPhones. We went to some Nokia executives trying to sell them the vision but they did not buy into emails and calendar on a phone. We all know what happened in that market. Technology always wins. It always takes time. There are always skeptics and you only need a tiny tiny percentage to get it rolling.
7. At some point we will buy boats that will have them integrated. We had to start with PDAs to create a market for SmartPhones. SmartPhones didn't happen over night.
8. Thanks to WesK and others who are wishing us luck. It is OK to be skeptical, I learn most from skeptical people. Please remember all boats raise together with tide and wish us luck
9. My name is Sam Arditi, you can google to see that I am not BS-ing.
IT IS REALLY FUN BEING PART OF THIS CONVERSATION, THANKS FlyWrite for starting it and inviting me in.
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Sam
First, as to small part of the market. This is a trawler forum and trawlers and even trawler type boats are a very small part of the market. The biggest part in terms of total sales is the small recreational boat, the bowriders, pontoons and fishing boats. Then when it comes to dollars you can look at megayachts too.
Your product targets boats in a specific size range and of a specific style. Your Bayliner Ciera is a perfect poster child for the product as it has horrible deck access with the helm substantially aft of where it is on most similar boats. Wake and ski boats up to a certain year are but now most of them are bowriders. Small Sea Ray Sundancers would fit in your target audience. Virtually no boats owned by persons here would really fit into that audience. Now we do own a boat with no deck access in a 44' Riva but we can reach over the windscreen and put the fender on.
Ultimately your product is a small part of a small segment, but it's still a good potential market for a small business. Nothing wrong with that. We are owners of small businesses. Every retail store doesn't have to have the volume of Macy's or Walmart.
We recently had discussions here regarding fenders for pilings. I would see your product as one in a similar market in that it's something a small minority of boats needs, but it's also unique. As to your patent, there are plenty of other ways one could design a product to accomplish the goals in a different way if they committed a large enough design team to it. However, no one is going to do that and review patent issues unless you reach a huge and unlikely volume and even then you'd be the first. More likely is you build your business and no one else tries and it's a one provider market.
One thing I didn't ask was does it have a memory so you can reset the same way over and over.
I am not a potential buyer for your product but then I'm not a buyer for a Nordhavn either so who cares. What I do think you need to do is explore other worlds of boating. Your video reflected an easy world of fender application. Your comment on small fenders reflected your mindset on that world. I still think most of your sales potential is inland. However, you do need to test and familiarize yourself with how your product works with 9 and 10' tides, how it would do in a hurricane,, how it behaves at a very exposed transient dock.
The best products are when someone sees a need and develops a solution. Sometimes we do laugh and dismiss but then I saw them do that on Shark Tank on Scrub Daddy and on Squatty Potty, both of which became huge successes. So, I wish you the best of luck.
First, as to small part of the market. This is a trawler forum and trawlers and even trawler type boats are a very small part of the market. The biggest part in terms of total sales is the small recreational boat, the bowriders, pontoons and fishing boats. Then when it comes to dollars you can look at megayachts too.
Your product targets boats in a specific size range and of a specific style. Your Bayliner Ciera is a perfect poster child for the product as it has horrible deck access with the helm substantially aft of where it is on most similar boats. Wake and ski boats up to a certain year are but now most of them are bowriders. Small Sea Ray Sundancers would fit in your target audience. Virtually no boats owned by persons here would really fit into that audience. Now we do own a boat with no deck access in a 44' Riva but we can reach over the windscreen and put the fender on.
Ultimately your product is a small part of a small segment, but it's still a good potential market for a small business. Nothing wrong with that. We are owners of small businesses. Every retail store doesn't have to have the volume of Macy's or Walmart.
We recently had discussions here regarding fenders for pilings. I would see your product as one in a similar market in that it's something a small minority of boats needs, but it's also unique. As to your patent, there are plenty of other ways one could design a product to accomplish the goals in a different way if they committed a large enough design team to it. However, no one is going to do that and review patent issues unless you reach a huge and unlikely volume and even then you'd be the first. More likely is you build your business and no one else tries and it's a one provider market.
One thing I didn't ask was does it have a memory so you can reset the same way over and over.
I am not a potential buyer for your product but then I'm not a buyer for a Nordhavn either so who cares. What I do think you need to do is explore other worlds of boating. Your video reflected an easy world of fender application. Your comment on small fenders reflected your mindset on that world. I still think most of your sales potential is inland. However, you do need to test and familiarize yourself with how your product works with 9 and 10' tides, how it would do in a hurricane,, how it behaves at a very exposed transient dock.
The best products are when someone sees a need and develops a solution. Sometimes we do laugh and dismiss but then I saw them do that on Shark Tank on Scrub Daddy and on Squatty Potty, both of which became huge successes. So, I wish you the best of luck.
sarditi
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Yes, the application has memory. We tested the product in very difficult environments - it is very durable. We even tested it under water... Tested in high winds and very big tides. I also jumped wakes with the Ciera to the point I was stopped on safety concerns, I drove the Ciera like what you see wave runners do.... very durable. When designing we prioritized quality over cost, this is the reason it is not so cheap. You will not see us in Shark Tank as we are done developing and don't need any significant additional funding, you will see us on boats, I am sure of that !!! At some point you will see it on Trawlers as well but I agree that this is not where it will start to ramp.
Thanks for your wishes, highly appreciated, Sam
At some point you will see it on Trawlers as well but I agree that this is not where it will start to ramp. Thanks for your wishes, highly appreciated, Sam
Why would a trawler need it? Makes no sense to me.
DHeckrotte
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Still, sorta' an intriguing invention. Given that lots of us are in tidal waters and in slips defined by pilings, and lots of us are transients, this sort of vertical fixed-location fender seems less than flexible enough for convenience.
Now, the person who invents an inflatable, horizontal fender that deploys all along the side of the vessel from within a built-in cover... Or airbags for bow and stern... No! Wait! I just invented 'em.
Now, the person who invents an inflatable, horizontal fender that deploys all along the side of the vessel from within a built-in cover... Or airbags for bow and stern... No! Wait! I just invented 'em.
OP
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You're very welcome! I've enjoyed it, too. It's great to get the developer's perspective in these discussions of new products.
I think many forget about folks with mobility issues, including those that lose balance or strength after the boat is purchased. If it allows a couple to extend their boating years or allows the skipper to more easily and safely single-hand the vessel, then it's worth the $$.
sarditi
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Hi BandB,
You can obviously see FlyWright's reply to your question. FlyWriht is very correct and that was our original thought but surprisingly we have significantly more younger customers buying them and I am guessing that the reasons are: 1. convenience - they can afford it so why not. 2. everyone can party w/o a concern of going on the bow after some wine.
People like partying on boats and having the fenders automated everyone except the captain can party w/o worrying about getting on the bow after few glasses of wine ....
Regards, Sam
You can obviously see FlyWright's reply to your question. FlyWriht is very correct and that was our original thought but surprisingly we have significantly more younger customers buying them and I am guessing that the reasons are: 1. convenience - they can afford it so why not. 2. everyone can party w/o a concern of going on the bow after some wine.
People like partying on boats and having the fenders automated everyone except the captain can party w/o worrying about getting on the bow after few glasses of wine ....
Regards, Sam
firstbase
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I bet Sam will work something out with you on that. Maybe the same deal you got when you bought the can of spray on hair?
There were 15.6 million boats registered in the US alone in 2016. Slice it and dice it anyway you want to get down to the number boats on which this could be used and it is a large number of boats. Also factor in boats that, in and of themselves, are not likely candidates but are owned by people who ARE likely candidates and the number goes up even more. No matter how you look at it, it is a big number and certainly enough to keep a small business going. I guess it's like the old censorship idea...don't like it then turn the channel. Don't like the automatic fender deployment product...don't buy it. I wouldn't laugh at those who do have a desire or need for it though.
Go Sam, go Sam, go Sam....
There were 15.6 million boats registered in the US alone in 2016. Slice it and dice it anyway you want to get down to the number boats on which this could be used and it is a large number of boats. Also factor in boats that, in and of themselves, are not likely candidates but are owned by people who ARE likely candidates and the number goes up even more. No matter how you look at it, it is a big number and certainly enough to keep a small business going. I guess it's like the old censorship idea...don't like it then turn the channel. Don't like the automatic fender deployment product...don't buy it. I wouldn't laugh at those who do have a desire or need for it though.
Go Sam, go Sam, go Sam....
OldDan1943
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Sam, a serious suggestion.
We are on the edge of developing an autonomous car. We now have cars that will warn us when we get too close to objects, parallel park for us, drifting across lands and brake for us too. so let us look forward to a boat that will avoid collusion, running aground and will automatically dock. Your fender deployment system will fit right in with this package.
Let's expand that too, if I am in Charleston, my boat is in Ft Lauderdale, I can summon my boat. It will respond with an approximate arrival time. We can be standing on the dock when it arrives. Well not in my life time but, maybe in the future, just like Popular Mechanics predicted we would have a flying car in out garage too. It took us over 50 years to develop a flying car and it is still in its infancy.
We are on the edge of developing an autonomous car. We now have cars that will warn us when we get too close to objects, parallel park for us, drifting across lands and brake for us too. so let us look forward to a boat that will avoid collusion, running aground and will automatically dock. Your fender deployment system will fit right in with this package.
Let's expand that too, if I am in Charleston, my boat is in Ft Lauderdale, I can summon my boat. It will respond with an approximate arrival time. We can be standing on the dock when it arrives. Well not in my life time but, maybe in the future, just like Popular Mechanics predicted we would have a flying car in out garage too. It took us over 50 years to develop a flying car and it is still in its infancy.
Tom.B
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For the record, I certainly wasn't wishing you ill will, Sam. I hope you do well with whatever dream you have for the product. We just aren't your target market (yet). Bess finds great joy in managing the lines and fenders on Skinny Dippin' and she has very good agility and access (now). Good luck!
Good luck!
ben2go
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Back to the fender deployment issue for a minute. A few well-placed blocks and cleats with long lines and one can reach out and drop the fenders from the side windows, cockpit, or hatch. Of course, it's all dependent on the tie off cleat placement.
Sam's boat is really one without good options. A unique design.
sarditi
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Hi Ben2Go,
I saw a comment that you are building your own boat. If this is really the case I will offer you 2 Automatic Fender brains to be integrated into your hull for free. We have plenty of orders for the Automatic Fender but we did not start working with boat manufacturers yet. Having a demo will be great for us. Your benefit will be that you can build a very unique boat.... I am going to do same with my boat very soon.
Hi BandB,
Our boat design is not so unique, most mid size cruisers have same design. It is not bad design it is a design that optimizes cabin space vs the convenient path to the bow. If I am buying a 30 to 40' express cruiser which is the size and shape we like and it is about 13' wide I rather have my cabin 13' wide or as close as possible to 13'. Having a convenient bow access as in many of your boats takes away from the cabin space. When it is a 50' boat that's fine but if you really like the 30 to 40' express cruisers it is better to have the largest possible cabin even if bow access is not so comfortable. We take the boat to Pittsburg for breakfast Friday morning (25 miles away), then cruise to Angel Island for a long bike ride (about 25 mile further away) then Sausalito for dinner and spend the night and the weekend in Pier 39 - San Francisco. To be able to do that we need a boat that cruises at 27 to 35 mph w/o burning much fuel. I understand the advantages of the Trawlers but the mid size cruisers have advantages as well. We do the above cruise or Napa Valley cruise quite often. So we don't have convenient bow access but we have other advantages with our boat.
Regards, Sam
I saw a comment that you are building your own boat. If this is really the case I will offer you 2 Automatic Fender brains to be integrated into your hull for free. We have plenty of orders for the Automatic Fender but we did not start working with boat manufacturers yet. Having a demo will be great for us. Your benefit will be that you can build a very unique boat.... I am going to do same with my boat very soon.
Hi BandB,
Our boat design is not so unique, most mid size cruisers have same design. It is not bad design it is a design that optimizes cabin space vs the convenient path to the bow. If I am buying a 30 to 40' express cruiser which is the size and shape we like and it is about 13' wide I rather have my cabin 13' wide or as close as possible to 13'. Having a convenient bow access as in many of your boats takes away from the cabin space. When it is a 50' boat that's fine but if you really like the 30 to 40' express cruisers it is better to have the largest possible cabin even if bow access is not so comfortable. We take the boat to Pittsburg for breakfast Friday morning (25 miles away), then cruise to Angel Island for a long bike ride (about 25 mile further away) then Sausalito for dinner and spend the night and the weekend in Pier 39 - San Francisco. To be able to do that we need a boat that cruises at 27 to 35 mph w/o burning much fuel. I understand the advantages of the Trawlers but the mid size cruisers have advantages as well. We do the above cruise or Napa Valley cruise quite often. So we don't have convenient bow access but we have other advantages with our boat.
Regards, Sam
I didn't say it was bad and I stick to the unique. I don't know of another express cruiser in it's range that has the windshield and helm so far aft. Sea Ray doesn't. Similar design but the location is important to increasing the need for the fender aide. Yes, it does all the things you'd want in a boat of it's type and probably better than most, but it has it's uniqueness as well. It's those little small differences that make it more attractive to some and less so to others. I like unique boats.
dhays
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I agree. Not for me, but I can see the utility for others.
BTW, I think some of the more snide remarks are a bit rude to our new member. It doesn’t reflect well on the TF community.
firstbase
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Agreed!
OldDan1943
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Correct, total non-encouraging to him.
I suspect all great inventors got the same "encouragement"....
Henry Ford.... so what good is your car? It has a limited market.
The Wright Bros. ... A flying machine? Are you nuts? If man were meant to fly...
And we should not forget the guy who invented the sextant. Where would we be if it weren't for him. LOL
So many great inventor and inventions were thought to be a waste of time.
Hang in there and remember, the pioneers are the ones with the arrows in the backs.
angus99
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This is true. I retract my snarky post, Sam. It was meant in fun, but I see you're serious and wish you well.
ben2go
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I am about four years out from starting the build.
firstbase
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Yours was the funny one and I bet even Sam laughed at it. I don't know about everyone else but I am a lil' bit jealous. Not because this is the perfect product or anything but I sit around DAILY trying to think of the $3.00 item that 15.6M US boaters need. Although this is not a $3.00 item, Sam is WAY closer than I am. Creep.
sarditi
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Hi all,
Thanks for your wishes and the jokes were OK !!!
We scheduled a Trawler install yesterday, it is for February as we have prior orders we need to fulfill first. The order was made during the San Pedro show in LA, young family. Assuming there is a way to upload pictures to this site I will do it as soon as we install. Trawler vs cruiser vs sailboat is not a question we ask, if we have a Trawler install before Feb I will upload pictures.
Cheers, Sam
Thanks for your wishes and the jokes were OK !!!
We scheduled a Trawler install yesterday, it is for February as we have prior orders we need to fulfill first. The order was made during the San Pedro show in LA, young family. Assuming there is a way to upload pictures to this site I will do it as soon as we install. Trawler vs cruiser vs sailboat is not a question we ask, if we have a Trawler install before Feb I will upload pictures.
Cheers, Sam
It would be nice to see the photos and ideally a video of it being used. Also, to know why they bought it. I'm sure it's one of the reasons you expressed earlier. Are they putting them forward only or all of their fenders?
sarditi
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Hi BandB,
They ordered 4 Automatic Fenders. 95% of our sales are 4. We don't believe Automatic Fenders should be used in the stern, stern access is normally very easy. We recommend using them only where you have a railing.
Thanks, Sam
They ordered 4 Automatic Fenders. 95% of our sales are 4. We don't believe Automatic Fenders should be used in the stern, stern access is normally very easy. We recommend using them only where you have a railing.
Thanks, Sam
So many are purchasing for alternate reasons, not because their cleats are difficult to get to. That's interesting. Some feel a need for them in the bow area and then decide if that makes sense, let's go all the way, or further at least. Did you expect 95% would order 4 or think originally more would order 2?
markpierce
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With a wide, 360-degree deck and good handrails, don't see the utility for me.
sarditi
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Hi BandB,
I've done some market analysis before investing in this project: about 30% of small fishing boats in our area have 2 pole anchors. Total cost of 2600 to $4000s and all they save you is the effort of throwing a small fishing boat anchor. Most cruisers come with SureShade now, starting price is $2700. How much effort is to fold the shade? how often do you do it?
When we are cruising I don't want to bother my wife with the fenders and I am willing to pay $799s for that. I am not surprised that I am not the only one. Do I have to have them? definitely not. Do I want them, definitely yes. My neighbor installed them, you should have seen his wife's surprise/reaction.... My yearly expenses (fuel and maintenance) on the cruiser make the $799s small. To your question: not surprised.
I'm also not surprised from the push back in this forum. It takes time for people to appreciate new innovation and it's OK. It took years and years for SmartPhones to get accepted and people laughed at us for years. Next time you think about surprising your wife with a nice present think beyond jewelry... You most probably buy her stuff she will enjoy, not necessarily stuff she needs anyway. A friend of ours bought them for his father as a birthday present....
Thanks, Sam
I've done some market analysis before investing in this project: about 30% of small fishing boats in our area have 2 pole anchors. Total cost of 2600 to $4000s and all they save you is the effort of throwing a small fishing boat anchor. Most cruisers come with SureShade now, starting price is $2700. How much effort is to fold the shade? how often do you do it?
When we are cruising I don't want to bother my wife with the fenders and I am willing to pay $799s for that. I am not surprised that I am not the only one. Do I have to have them? definitely not. Do I want them, definitely yes. My neighbor installed them, you should have seen his wife's surprise/reaction.... My yearly expenses (fuel and maintenance) on the cruiser make the $799s small. To your question: not surprised.
I'm also not surprised from the push back in this forum. It takes time for people to appreciate new innovation and it's OK. It took years and years for SmartPhones to get accepted and people laughed at us for years. Next time you think about surprising your wife with a nice present think beyond jewelry... You most probably buy her stuff she will enjoy, not necessarily stuff she needs anyway. A friend of ours bought them for his father as a birthday present....
Thanks, Sam
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OldDan1943
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