Engine Zincs

Lou_tribal · Sep 20, 2017

Hello fellow TFers!
Reading another thread about zincs raised a question in my mind. As I did not want to hijack it here is a new one. So my question is where are located engine zincs usually (by zincs I mean sacrificial anodes). Question sound stupid but as my engine is a rare beast, I was wondering if I should have any. I don't know if originally there was some but I know that now there is none.
Are the anodes only in exhaust manifold? Heat exchangers?

Context: I am in fresh water only for now.

L

LarryM · Sep 20, 2017

They are often also found in fuel, oil and transmission coolers, and salt water aftercoolers.

I seem to remember some raw-water cooled engines with anodes in the cylinder heads and maybe the engine blocks too.

C lectric · Sep 21, 2017

Your engine has a heat exchanger, correct?
Guessing here but usually on engines like yours you MAY have one in the main engine heat exchanger. There may also be one in the gear oil cooler.
You will not have an after cooler(no turbo) nor likely a fuel cooler so have a good look at those two items.

Usually the anodes are attached to a brass hex head cap that is screwed into a port.
Carefully examine likely spots. Unfortunately I suspect no one can actually tell you.

But you may not have them.

what_barnacles · Sep 21, 2017

I vote this thread as most ambivalent ever.

Lou_tribal · Sep 21, 2017

what_barnacles said:
I vote this thread as most ambivalent ever.

LOL you are right!
Let me clarify my post. I am trying to find out if any zincs are fitted in my engine or where I can fit one.
At this point I the only plug I have seen are the 2 on the exhaust manifold, used to empty water.
I will check on the heat exchanger.

L

CaptSteve53 · Sep 21, 2017

What Engine??

Pencil zincs are usually in only the sea water side of your engine/transmission (if raw water cooled),heat exchangers/manifolds etc Bigger commercial engines usually have more than smaller pleasure rated engines, A good idea is once found paint the hex heads RED so it hits you in face when you enter the engine room,

Cheers Steve

Lou_tribal · Sep 21, 2017

CaptSteve53 said:
What Engine??

Pencil zincs are usually in only the sea water side of your engine/transmission (if raw water cooled),heat exchangers/manifolds etc Bigger commercial engines usually have more than smaller pleasure rated engines, A good idea is once found paint the hex heads RED so it hits you in face when you enter the engine room,

Cheers Steve

Steve, My engine is a very exotic one, brand name Acadia, model AD30. I am pretty sure you never heard about it

It is raw water cooled and like you said I was looking to find out where the anodes could have been located. I will be at my boat coming weekend so I will look at the heat exchanger. I am pretty sure there is none at the oil coolers. Need to check the cooling heat exchanger.

Thanks!

L

CaptSteve53 · Sep 22, 2017

Lou, your right they are a rare breed, have heard of them how ever from the Hercules Engines found in industrial applications(basically same engine)and Cocshutt tractors (no im not pulling your leg!), not all that different in looking like a Ford Lehman, I was some years back was involved with a posting in Diesel Forums re a similar question and a tractor (Yes a Cocshutt!) and at the time this link was given as a supplier of parts and manuals for the Hercules as;Hercules Catalog | Jensales Tractor Manuals

The Hercules diesels were a staple in the industrial engine world in days gone by. They were a commonly found marine engine and versions of them powered a good many military trucks of the ‘50s and ‘60s.

Like all in this family of engines, the blocks were exactly the same at either end, allowing for a great many variations, not the least of which was the ability to mount injection pumps on either side of the engine. True to one of the mainstay markets, the Hercules engines could be ordered for clockwise or counter-clockwise operation for twin engine boats.

Hercules shut the doors in 1999 but had built the D3000 and D3400 pretty much to the end. Parts are much less common than other brands, but one company, Hercano Propulsion, has specialized in Hercules, having bought the majority of Hercules’ remaining parts stocks.

HERCULES ENGINES OR HERCULES PARTS

Cheers Steve

Lou_tribal · Sep 22, 2017

CaptSteve53 said:
Lou, your right they are a rare breed, have heard of them how ever from the Hercules Engines found in industrial applications(basically same engine)and Cocshutt tractors (no im not pulling your leg!), not all that different in looking like a Ford Lehman, I was some years back was involved with a posting in Diesel Forums re a similar question and a tractor (Yes a Cocshutt!) and at the time this link was given as a supplier of parts and manuals for the Hercules as;Hercules Catalog | Jensales Tractor Manuals

The Hercules diesels were a staple in the industrial engine world in days gone by. They were a commonly found marine engine and versions of them powered a good many military trucks of the ‘50s and ‘60s.

Like all in this family of engines, the blocks were exactly the same at either end, allowing for a great many variations, not the least of which was the ability to mount injection pumps on either side of the engine. True to one of the mainstay markets, the Hercules engines could be ordered for clockwise or counter-clockwise operation for twin engine boats.

Hercules shut the doors in 1999 but had built the D3000 and D3400 pretty much to the end. Parts are much less common than other brands, but one company, Hercano Propulsion, has specialized in Hercules, having bought the majority of Hercules’ remaining parts stocks.

HERCULES ENGINES OR HERCULES PARTS

Cheers Steve

Right on target Steve.
I was able to get an hand on the maintenance manual for the Hercules engine (terrestrial version) but never have been able to find the Acadia marine version one. I am learning it bit by bit in the hope to keep it running as it is now. I met a retired fisherman from Nova Scotia and Quebec East coast 2 weeks ago, he told me that I will never have to worry about an Acadia engine and that it will survive me, it was encouraging! Not sure if he was predicting me to die young though lol

L

Ski in NC · Sep 22, 2017

Any part of the engine that circulates sea water MAY have a zinc. Most coolant heat exchangers and gear coolers have zincs, but not all. Zinc is usually held by an NPT plug threaded into the sea water side of the cooler. If you see such a plug, take it out and see if it has internal threads or a zinc remnant.

Is your exhaust manifold sea water or coolant cooled?

Lepke · Sep 22, 2017

My Detroit Diesels have 3 per engine. One in the raw water pump outlet and two in the heat exchanger. It's all bonded by copper pipe. Because of experience with engines that have zincs, I add them to small engines I own. Usually I put in a bronze tee, somewhere in the flow between the pump and heat exchanger. The tee if connected by hose has to be bonded to the other metal parts. Otherwise only the tee is protected.
I've been running DD for decades and never lost a heat exchanger. Never has a serious corrosion problem. My current DDs are very old and appear to have original heat exchangers of a type probably not made in 40 years.
You can buy pencil zincs with or without the plug. Sometimes it's near impossible to get the old zinc pencil threads out of the plug.

Lou_tribal · Sep 25, 2017

Ski in NC said:
Any part of the engine that circulates sea water MAY have a zinc. Most coolant heat exchangers and gear coolers have zincs, but not all. Zinc is usually held by an NPT plug threaded into the sea water side of the cooler. If you see such a plug, take it out and see if it has internal threads or a zinc remnant.

Is your exhaust manifold sea water or coolant cooled?

First to answer your question, yes my exhaust manifold is raw water cooled (I would not say sea water as I am in fresh water

).

So this weekend I checked all the part were raw water is circulating and the result is that there no place for anodes in the oil coolers (engine and transmission), there is none in the heat exchanger (between raw water and coolant). The only place were I could see any would be on the exhaust manifold as there are 2 plugs on it that we remove to empty the water.

One question though. My engine block is bonded to the main bonding cable using a large copper string, so it is bonded to the anodes mounted aft. In that case would I need anodes in the engine itself?

L.

CaptSteve53 · Sep 25, 2017

Lou_tribal said:
First to answer your question, yes my exhaust manifold is raw water cooled (I would not say sea water as I am in fresh water ).

So this weekend I checked all the part were raw water is circulating and the result is that there no place for anodes in the oil coolers (engine and transmission), there is none in the heat exchanger (between raw water and coolant). The only place were I could see any would be on the exhaust manifold as there are 2 plugs on it that we remove to empty the water.

One question though. My engine block is bonded to the main bonding cable using a large copper string, so it is bonded to the anodes mounted aft. In that case would I need anodes in the engine itself?

L.

Lou,

The bonding of your engine is quite normal in most marine installations, but as for helping with the internals is a different issue,
The normal Bronze housing and cupro nickle interior bundles are what is the issue and requiring protection (with the use of the pencil zinc's)in a sea water environment and those pencil zincs need to be making "electrical" contact with the item (the housing/bundles)to work, with out contact of all elements (Zinc/Metals/sea water) then the zinc's cant work,

Being bonded certainly helps over all, but not explicitly with the heat exchangers, for older non-marine specific heat exchangers it's common not to find pencil zincs, with modern marine specific exchangers it's very common to find them (but not all), even my small Vetus 3M has no zincs in the heat exchanger(although probably again as the Vetus Marine uses a Mitsubishi tractor engine as it's core). So you wont be Alone for sure-Strangely enough there's actually a taper plug for draining but no room inside for a pencil zinc (Like you was worried and tried to fit),

All that said the engine is 27 years old, yes just replaced the outer housing (as Aluminium) but the Cupro Nickle bundle was fine(just happy to be eating fresh Aluminium)

Cheers Steve

sunchaser · Sep 25, 2017

My engines have no zincs by design - Perkins Sabre 225 TI or its yellow counterpart Cat 3056. The engine builder says no need based upon isolating "O" rings and materials of construction. I've always been curious though

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