Wooden Boats

Hi Trawler fans!

I discovered this forum and joined about a month ago.

I'm a custom builder on Lake Erie (Ohio) and and I'm curious whether there's any interest in new wooden trawlers any more? Nothing feels and sounds quite like a wooden boat under way (or at anchor) and I imagine trawler folks tend to understand that more than your average boat owner. And the aesthetics of wooden boat construction have an appeal that can't be matched in fiberglass or aluminum.

New, traditionally-built wooden boats remain viable but the best wood-epoxy building techniques can reduce maintenance and result in a virtually unlimited lifespan. Does wood construction appeal to anyone any more?

John Riddle

My last boat was a wooden boat but it was covered in many layers of fiberglass and Kevlar.

If it is done right and with enough glass and resin. It would seem to me it could be just about the same as an all glass boat.

Done right is the key. Leave a little opening anywhere and the water gets in.

It just about has to be encapsulated in Fiberglass.

SD

It has appeal but it's way expensive if you're talking about plank-on-frame construction and it's done properly.

And while I believe a well cared for wood boat is no more effort to maintain than a well cared for plastic boat, the difference becomes glaring when the boats are not so well cared for. A plastic boat gets really dirty with neglect and some of the systems may start to fail or deteriorate with disuse. But that's about it.

A neglected wood boat can start to allow moisture to get into places it shouldn't be and then you have the potential for problems that can be a major effort and expense to fix.

So I would venture to say that in the kind of boating market represented by the members of forums like this one the interest in new-build wood boats is not seriously high enough to warrant trying to make money off it.

And if I was really rich and wanted a new boat, as much as I like wood I would probably look at some kind of composite construction (by which I mean carbon fiber or the like) before I seriously considered wood. At least not plank-on-frame.

The WEST process of cold-molding and whatnot may have merit depending on the type of boat. But I don't really regard those as "wood boats." They are composite boats with resins and epoxies providing the real properties of the hull.

John,
I want a wood boat.

But not trawler size. What I want is Tang or Marcia in the Atkin boat plans list/site/catalogue.[http://www.atkinboatplans.com/] [/URL]Would be a trailer boat so I would want it in plywood. But doubt it could be cost effective to ship it out to Vancouver BC. You probably know how best to do that.

I'm having troubles. The link is't hot but if you look it up look under "inboard cruisers. Converting to OB power may not be the best but putting batts, fuel and water fwd may balance things out well enough.

I know of nothing else that compares to these boats. I have a 60hp OB and think these boats will cruise at about 12 knots w this power. No other boats other than the 26' Handy Billy come close to what I want. A light, efficient and trailerable OB that can take some fairly nasty water.

Sam Devlin in Olympia custom builds new wood boats including several trawler designs.

Devlin Designing Boat Builders

These vessels are not cheap, but are certainly beautiful and well executed. He uses the 'stich and glue' technique of epoxy over plywood. Admitedly, these are not true 'wood' boats as earlier mentioned, as they typically do not suffer the normal maintenance associated with most wood boats.

Manyboats:

I am familiar with Atkin's website and designs. I'd be happy to discuss your ideas. I sent you a PM with my contact info and a few thoughts. Looking forward to hearing from you. Thanks!

John

Marin:

Both you and Skipperdude made similar points that reflect common thinking about wooden construction, whether it's of traditional construction (ex: plank-on-frame) or one of several wood-epoxy techniques. But I think some of those points by themselves are somewhat misleading because they don't tell the whole story.

It has appeal but it's way expensive if you're talking about plank-on-frame construction and it's done properly.

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Realistically, when we're talking about new wooden construction, we're usually considering wood-epoxy construction vs. traditional methods like plank-on-frame. Wooden construction is really well suited to custom builds and its cost can compete favorably with high quality construction in other materials. It can even compete with the best semi-custom production builds because of the amount of handwork involved in both cases.

A neglected wood boat can start to allow moisture to get into places it shouldn't be and then you have the potential for problems that can be a major effort and expense to fix.

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That is true of any construction. Moisture is bad when it gets in anywhere it doesn't belong, regardless of the construction. I take care of 50-plus year-old wooden boats, some of which are mostly original. I've also repaired 12 year-old decks, transoms, stringers and other cored structures in fiberglass boats. Cores can be wood, balsa or various foams - it doesn't matter. When water gets in, bad things happen.

The WEST process of cold-molding and whatnot may have merit depending on the type of boat. But I don't really regard those as "wood boats." They are composite boats with resins and epoxies providing the real properties of the hull.

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You're right, they are "composites" of (usually) multiple layers of wood, fiberglass or other reinforcing materials, and the resins that bond it all. One may regard them as something other than wood boats but it is the wood that gives them their great strength, stiffness, relatively light weight, and insulating properties. The epoxy (and fiberglass where it's used) serves to bond it all together into a one-piece, monocoque structure and as importantly, to keep the water out.

If you get "really rich and want a new boat", I hope you'll look me up. You clearly have knowledge and seem like a guy who could be enlightened with a little more information! Thanks for taking the time to comment.

John

John Riddle said:

If you get "really rich and want a new boat", I hope you'll look me up. You clearly have knowledge and seem like a guy who could be enlightened with a little more information! Thanks for taking the time to comment.

John

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If I get really rich and want a new boat I'm going to call Tony Fleming.

I'll buy that!

Welcome aboard, John. Where are you at on Lake Erie?

Thanks! My shop is in a town called Vermilion just east of the most southern point on Lake Erie.

To answer the OP's Q,not many people interested in larger wooden structured boats.They are extremely expensive to have them built.Those that have the means will usually want a traditional wooden boat build.Only us younger up and comers will strike out on our own and build something modern with epoxy and ply.

I'm prepping to build a 27-30 foot ply on frame design from Spira International.I'm holding off on buying plans, as Jeff will be releasing some new designs.One I am particularly interested in is a 27' LOA with 8'6" beam double ender, named the San Juan.Think St. Pierre dory with a rounded stern.I have the study plans for San Juan for review.They haven't been placed on Spira's website yet.However,I have been seriously hung up on his PNW dory plans,properly named Sitka,stretched to 30' with a V entry bow.I still have a couple years to decide before I can start building.

Ben,
Are you on BoatDesign.net? And Atkin yahoo...group?
You should like those sites.

I really like the Atkin boats but do'nt know if I have the energy or the time to build the ones I like. I want a big medium speed OB. Is the San Juan a typical warped V bottom design?

manyboats said:

Ben,
Are you on BoatDesign.net? And Atkin yahoo...group?
You should like those sites.

I really like the Atkin boats but do'nt know if I have the energy or the time to build the ones I like. I want a big medium speed OB. Is the San Juan a typical warped V bottom design?

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I am on BDN but not on Atkin group.

The San Juan is ply on frame.It does have some curves in the hull,but I don't know if I would call it warped hull in the traditional sense.It is a displacement cruiser so it has rounded chines with a slight rocker built in.The bow has a V entry but from there back it flattens out.I attached a pic from Spira's FB site.I hope this kind of shows how the bow has a slight bend to it.It's very subtle on there.

Hi , you are totally correct , on the feel and good looks of a wooden boat , I am refurbishing one now , I've been told that it would cost a couple of million to rebuild one like mine ! Skills and yards are in short supply , and I think the bottom line is the cost , compared to the modern build materials and methods ,

Andy

Welcome a board. I have a 1969 Pilot House Trawler (Blaine Seeley) and I absolutely love it.

I have been living with a wood composite boat for five years now. My opinion- In general it is a great way to go for a custom single or low volume build if one can ignore the initial high cost and the very poor resale prospects. My best guess count on 30 to 50% more expensive to build if its not your labor and maybe 50 % return on resale in the first 5 years.

I know this post is old but i must talk to you if you're willing. In your opinion how much would it cost to build a 20 to 27 foot wooden boat on a trawler style? Not looking fot exact amount but ball park will do. I am in research mod to find out if its worth building my own boat. I have been dreaming for years about this boat and damned if i can find one even close to its design, therefore i have to build it. Will you help me. Also, if anyone have any info to share i am all ears. Thank you for reading.

I was a shipwright and learned from men that spent their whole lives building and repairing wood ships and boats.
And I live on an 83' wood boat, but the time for large wood boats is mostly over. The two biggest problems are getting proper timber and getting insurance. Most insurance companies see laminated wood as just another kind of wood boat.


You might look at Glen-L. They sell plans for boats and offer kits for some.
https://www.glen-l.com/

Your question is too wide open. Where are you building at? That will make a difference.
You say build with wood but there are many different ways to build with wood.
What speed and power are you wanting? What size? Big difference in a 20 and a 27 foot boat.
Your cost can be not too bad or dang it is made of gold. Depends on the choices you make.
You can go here. Several of the 28's have been built and you can get a lot of support.
https://bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=TW28

What are the features you desire that you aren't finding in production boats ? Perhaps if you describe the boat you seek, someone here can recomend something that meets those requirements. There is a surprising amount of experience on this forum.

We love our wood boat. Fleming and Defever cut there teeth on ours. Her lines are beautiful. She has been well maintained since 1970. As some have stated the feel in the water is excellent. Maintenance on any boat is part of living the dream. We are all very fortunate to be living the water life.

I moor my boat in Rockport, Maine, the home of Rockport Marine and other builders and we are treated to numerous beautiful wooden boats, both resident and transients. I never tire of looking at them, but I'm too lazy and poor to own one.

I miss wood boats in boat yards. Today yards have harsh chemical smells but when most boats were wood yards had a unique and not unpleasant smell.

The smell of old wood boats slowly returning to the earth.

John Riddle said:

Hi Trawler fans!

I discovered this forum and joined about a month ago.

I'm a custom builder on Lake Erie (Ohio) and and I'm curious whether there's any interest in new wooden trawlers any more? Nothing feels and sounds quite like a wooden boat under way (or at anchor) and I imagine trawler folks tend to understand that more than your average boat owner. And the aesthetics of wooden boat construction have an appeal that can't be matched in fiberglass or aluminum.

New, traditionally-built wooden boats remain viable but the best wood-epoxy building techniques can reduce maintenance and result in a virtually unlimited lifespan. Does wood construction appeal to anyone any more?

John Riddle

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Does wood construction appeal? Not to anyone but woodenboat fanatics who will want traditional techniques, not epoxy encapsulated wood fibers. Also the super-rich who will want bragging rights amongst their plutocrat peers.

If you think I’m wrong, show me all the production boats made from wood and epoxy...... Are there any wood center consoles or skiffs? Any wood trawlers beside one off customs?

I’ve been a subscriber and reader of Woodenboat magazine since Jon started it back in the mid ‘70s, in fact I’m wearing a Woodenboat t-shirt as I write this. But I also realized a long time ago that they are the tiniest segment of the boat building business. I love them, but when it came time to put my money down, we bought fiberglass, however I do travel with a stitch and glue plywood Whitehall skiff I built from a CLC kit.

I place them with Harley Davidson motorcycles, which I call motorized jewelry. Nice to look at when someone else owns it.

If it were me I would abandon the thought of building a boat due to both the cost and time. Maybe you can rescue an old boat and put your flavor into it? Or, email me at. K1955cj3b@cox.net. My circumstances have changed a bit and I may be selling mine soon. ?

http://www.offcenterharbor.com/tour/

What you do of course is an art form. During my first visit to Bar Harbour I toured what might be the best wooden

http://brooklinboatyard.com/[/URL]

And this is just about the coolest site ever and well worth the small membership fee for the videos alone.

Watch Quality Sailing Videos & Learn How to Build a Wooden Boat from the Pros

I love the old traditional wooden boats and converted trawlers. Years ago I visited Mayer Boat or Mayes near Alganac? Don't recall but I remember thinking they where Hinckley like in quality.

So the market is there, you have to find it. Small, very custom, and specific.


Regarding the url issue. How goofy is this system? Most chat sites you simply cut and paste and it works fine. Not here!

When I was even more broke than I am now, younger also, I had a 32 foot woody. A Chris Craft Connie. I absolutely loved it, even liked the twin gassers, you just can't beat that contented rumble out the back end.

Maintenance was high!

I was at a low rent marina at the time, mostly wooden boats. We did most of our rot patching with auto "Bondo". We would joke that in a couple more seasons we would have to change the official title on our boat to "Fiberglass" because some were more "bondo" than wood.

pete

I've thought about buying a wooden Grand Banks a couple of dozen times. My two friends who owned wooden Grand Banks, talked me out of it, every time.

They're beautiful, and if you have the time and the money, I'm sure it is very rewarding to own one. I'm just not sure I had enough of either.