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Tom A

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Wife just saw on news that the Cup will be returning to mono-hulls! Hell Yeah!
 
Actually they are returning to Planing monohulls
 
Most racing monohulls plane, but these will foil.
Lots of detail to come and how much weight in the keel is the key.
To foil effectively, weight is the enemy.
Will they foil in less than 10 kn wind speed, my guess is no.
They had better foil in 15kn or it could be pretty dull after Bermuda.
 
Tom A said:
Wife just saw on news that the Cup will be returning to mono-hulls! Hell Yeah!
Click to expand...



Yes but if you're thinking that the A36 boats will be much closer to traditional sailboats, don't get too excited. A little slower than the cats but still riding on foils and even more new technology.

Through history Americas Cup boats are a "development class". I'm personally all for it, and I race one-design boats (Solings back in the day, and Thistles, Windmills, more recently J-80's, etc.)

Those one-designs are almost all about the crew's sailing skills because the boats are essentially identical. Like the Olympics.

AC is about world class skills, plus who can take advantage of the most advanced design details within the constraints of the formula.
Big money.

I'm looking forward to it...the new hulls were a deal-point when team Luna Rossa agreed to help NZ.
 
Now I know I'm showing my age here (just a bit!) but having these fine yachts racing in NZ conditions for me at least would be spectacular!!!. Now there's some fine skill there!!

"AMERICA" winner 1851-First Cup

Cheers Steve:dance:
 

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At one time racing improved the breed , ideas could be translated to boats most folks would enjoy.

Foilers have been here for at least 1/2 century , with no use except for stunters.

Bring back the J boats !!!

Imagine what carbon fiber and modern engineering could do in a 150ft toy!
 
Right. But let's keep Formula 1 car racing, because those F1 cars translate so well into the average person's enjoyment of their daily driver.
 
CaptSteve53 said:
Now I know I'm showing my age here (just a bit!) but having these fine yachts racing in NZ conditions for me at least would be spectacular!!!. Now there's some fine skill there!!



"AMERICA" winner 1851-First Cup



Cheers Steve:dance:
Click to expand...



"Showing your age"? How old were you in the 1850's?
 
. "But let's keep Formula 1 car racing, because those F1 cars translate so well into the average person's enjoyment of their daily driver."

Notice the size of disc brakes on production cars?

Huge discs are even now used on 18 wheelers , in an attempt to not crash into a car that can stop from 60mph in 150 Ft.

The new computer adjustable shock absorbers also come from the circuit.
 
It looks like there will also be a nationality requirement as well. That might help generate more fan support as countries can "root for their own".

What happens to the boats that were used in the last race i wonder ? So expensive to have a lifespan measured in weeks.
 
So, it is your position that research and development for Americas Cup boats has not contributed any useful technology to pleasure boats?
 
Benthic2 said:
It looks like there will also be a nationality requirement as well. That might help generate more fan support as countries can "root for their own".

What happens to the boats that were used in the last race i wonder ? So expensive to have a lifespan measured in weeks.
Click to expand...



Rooting for their own: I'm all for that, except that the Kiwi's will once again beat us like a rented mule.

AC Boat lifespan:
The winner is put out to stud, for a fee. I hear they're breeding the NZ cat with the old 12 meter Stars & Stripes. That's why the next boats will slower monohulls with foils.

I believe the losers get put through a giant tree branch shredding machine.
Think "Fargo".
 
Nice comparison with F1.
Chris Dickson was on the radio here yesterday saying the Americas Cup has been around for 170 years. To put that in a sporting context he said the Americas Cup will see motor racing with internal combustion engines come and go in its lifetime.
He also said he was hoping more US teams will come down here to the Hauraki Gulf and have a go.
The biggest fleet was Freemantle with 17 teams, the two in New Zealand had 12 and 10 teams. The two run by Oracle where pretty thin in comparison.
 
For the record, I'm a fan of all kinds of sports. And I love racing "traditional" sailboats. I think the old Stars - a long time Olympic boat that is incredibly hard to sail - were absolutely beautiful but their time has come and gone. They got passed up by newer designs. I get it, but I do miss them.

I've done a lot of racing on old and new boats. But this is the technology age and every sport has its "R & D" division. The Americas Cup, the Vendee, the Volvo Challenge...they are the proving grounds for new sailboat technology. The boats and crews often get pushed to their limits. That's partly a good thing because it means that we, as humans, are using our brains as (I believe) our Creator intended. Wing keels, low stretch ropes, better instruments, even human-generated power systems, are all advanced - if not developed - through racing these leading-edge boats.

This isn't unique to sailing. Compared to 50 years ago, golf equipment is far better today, football helmets are safer, top fuel dragster tires can handle 300+ mph, on and on. Meanwhile every one of those sports have become more popular to the masses.
My great uncle, Ray Harroun, won the first Indianapolis 500. He averaged about 75 mph. His technical contribution was using a rear view mirror for the first time on a race car. But think of the advances in that sport! An F1 engine...just the engine...costs $8 million. The Red Bull F1 team spends $320 million per year. So it's a good thing a lot of fans watch F1 and the ads that come with it. Same with the AC. The tech is a big part of why it has gotten so popular, which indirectly pays the bills, which allows more R&D. The Cup has become interesting to non-sailors who can't be expected to know much about racing tactics. But they like the excitement. That's good for the sport and we all benefit when that technology gets translated into pleasure boats.

Maybe the new AC boats aren't 'pretty' and I won't try to convince anyone to like them. Personally I think they're way cool. But pretty or not, they really are a testament to the human mind. Im certain that's what people said about J boats nearly 100 years ago.
 
I can't picture single-hullsed boats with foils. But as long as there is a trend toward single-hulled, multi-masted boats with long bow-sprits, the better.
 
CDreamer said:
For the record, I'm a fan of all kinds of sports. And I love racing "traditional" sailboats. I think the old Stars - a long time Olympic boat that is incredibly hard to sail - were absolutely beautiful but their time has come and gone. They got passed up by newer designs. I get it, but I do miss them.

I've done a lot of racing on old and new boats. But this is the technology age and every sport has its "R & D" division. The Americas Cup, the Vendee, the Volvo Challenge...they are the proving grounds for new sailboat technology. The boats and crews often get pushed to their limits. That's partly a good thing because it means that we, as humans, are using our brains as (I believe) our Creator intended. Wing keels, low stretch ropes, better instruments, even human-generated power systems, are all advanced - if not developed - through racing these leading-edge boats.

This isn't unique to sailing. Compared to 50 years ago, golf equipment is far better today, football helmets are safer, top fuel dragster tires can handle 300+ mph, on and on. Meanwhile every one of those sports have become more popular to the masses.
My great uncle, Ray Harroun, won the first Indianapolis 500. He averaged about 75 mph. His technical contribution was using a rear view mirror for the first time on a race car. But think of the advances in that sport! An F1 engine...just the engine...costs $8 million. The Red Bull F1 team spends $320 million per year. So it's a good thing a lot of fans watch F1 and the ads that come with it. Same with the AC. The tech is a big part of why it has gotten so popular, which indirectly pays the bills, which allows more R&D. The Cup has become interesting to non-sailors who can't be expected to know much about racing tactics. But they like the excitement. That's good for the sport and we all benefit when that technology gets translated into pleasure boats.

Maybe the new AC boats aren't 'pretty' and I won't try to convince anyone to like them. Personally I think they're way cool. But pretty or not, they really are a testament to the human mind. Im certain that's what people said about J boats nearly 100 years ago.
Click to expand...
Yaaa someone that knows what a Star is. My dad's first big boat was a wooden Star.. sailed her on Lake Champlain. Sold her and bought a Lippincott star that had an Olympic Gold Star on her mainsail. I learned my sailing skills on a Sunfish, then the Stars. They are beautiful boats
 
I was lucky enough to see some of the AC races from Alcatraz 4 years ago...mind-blowing boats and sailors. Looking forward to these new-fangled mono-hulls.
 
Sparks5501 -
Yeah, I've had the "pleasure" of droop-hiking a Star for three races in a row on a windy Saturday. Could be just brutal in the winter. Pretty wild...did you know they were originally gaff-rigged!? I never saw one rigged that way but as a sloop, tacking the huge Main with the small Jib took some getting used to, especially downwind with no spinnaker.
I raced on a couple of Dragons before that class largely died out. I hear they're making a comeback in Dubai...Beautiful.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pinterest.com/amp/pin/218987600601607556/

Then Solings and Etchells came along and a lot of Star sailors moved to them. Then J24's....Johnstone's huge step forward. I raced on that boat for a good while...very big class and crazy talent.
The one boat I always wanted to experience was the Tornado but never got invited. I think I was too light for the trapeze....(not a problem now!)

I got to meet Buddy Melges at the North American Star championships once. And Lowell North (eventually founding North Sails) spoke at the dinner. What can I say? Icons. For me it was like meeting Johnny Bench or Orel Hershiser or somebody like that.
The thing about Stars was to see them at the starting line...all identical, all white hulls, all heeled at exactly the same angle on starboard tack. Thrilling, close-quarters racing.
But jump on a Viper or a J70 today...same feeling but 2-3 times the speed of a
Star...I mean...wow.

https://www.starclass.org/history/star-boat-design-and-development2
 
we'll see if the Kiwis start the finals up 1 race like we did!

I did enjoy the Bermuda venue. All aspects were great. But I'm guessing they won't be looking to kick in $70M again to host.
 
CDreamer said:
Sparks5501 -
Yeah, I've had the "pleasure" of droop-hiking a Star for three races in a row on a windy Saturday. Could be just brutal in the winter. Pretty wild...did you know they were originally gaff-rigged!? I never saw one rigged that way but as a sloop, tacking the huge Main with the small Jib took some getting used to, especially downwind with no spinnaker.
I raced on a couple of Dragons before that class largely died out. I hear they're making a comeback in Dubai...Beautiful.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pinterest.com/amp/pin/218987600601607556/

Then Solings and Etchells came along and a lot of Star sailors moved to them. Then J24's....Johnstone's huge step forward. I raced on that boat for a good while...very big class and crazy talent.
The one boat I always wanted to experience was the Tornado but never got invited. I think I was too light for the trapeze....(not a problem now!)

I got to meet Buddy Melges at the North American Star championships once. And Lowell North (eventually founding North Sails) spoke at the dinner. What can I say? Icons. For me it was like meeting Johnny Bench or Orel Hershiser or somebody like that.
The thing about Stars was to see them at the starting line...all identical, all white hulls, all heeled at exactly the same angle on starboard tack. Thrilling, close-quarters racing.
But jump on a Viper or a J70 today...same feeling but 2-3 times the speed of a
Star...I mean...wow.

https://www.starclass.org/history/star-boat-design-and-development2
Click to expand...
Our Lippincott Star had an aluminum mast that you could bend to help shape the mainsail. The newer dacron sails were not as baggy and easier to trim. The difference between the wooden hull and the fiberglass hull was night and day. Great memories from growing up.
 
I built a W.E.S.T. system Windmill about 20 years ago. Still sail it from time to time and my boys race it on the handicap line with a couple of Flying Scots, Laser Il's, Dutchman, etc.
15' long and only 198 lbs dry. Far stiffer for the weight than the 'Glas versions.

It's a little like a miniature Star in that it has a large Main and small jib - but no spinnaker, which kept Windmills out of the Olympic lineup. It's a handful in 15 kts.
Like a Star, no backstay so you torque the forestay, use a lot of vang and put in some pre-bend before you launch. Not a tapered mast like Stars, but you can bend the section pretty good to depower in a lot of wind. No ballast either - daggerboard boat so all hiking. Got to have good core muscles to be successful. (Why I let the boys race it)

It will plane upwind in 12 knots. Lots of fun. The Southerns are in Pensacola (Grand Lagoon YC) so we might go this year.
 
Re: Americas Cup, I hear Oracle says they are staying out next time...I guess the spanking by NZ was too much for Larry.
 
CDreamer said:
Sparks5501 -
Yeah, I've had the "pleasure" of droop-hiking a Star for three races in a row on a windy Saturday. Could be just brutal in the winter. Pretty wild...did you know they were originally gaff-rigged!?

The one boat I always wanted to experience was the Tornado but never got invited. I think I was too light for the trapeze....(not a problem now!)

I got to meet Buddy Melges at the North American Star championships once. And Lowell North (eventually founding North Sails) spoke at the dinner. What can I say? Icons. For me it was like meeting Johnny Bench or Orel Hershiser or somebody like that.
The thing about Stars was to see them at the starting line...all identical, all white hulls, all heeled at exactly the same angle on starboard tack. Thrilling, close-quarters racing.
https://www.starclass.org/history/star-boat-design-and-development2
Click to expand...

Thanks for the Star history.
Back in the beginning, I had #2855, a wood hull, made before tweaking the allowable limits to flatten the bottom became the norm, so not competitive in 1971 to 75 when I was sailing her. Still a fantastic boat to learn to sail and race in. My crew weighed 105# at the time, I was about 150, so what you say about Tornadoes applied to us on our Star.
I had the opportunity to sail a Tornado once. Like taking a Formula One for a spin. Wow!
 
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