Marina Eviction in advance of Irma

SoWhat said:

Dominoes either way. Finger slips are held by 2 bolts and they're not going to last long once a few boats part lines and start slamming into them.

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Some floating docks have well secured fingers.

BandB said:

That is so tiresome to keep hearing. Florida is the largest market and the true marine insurers have tens of thousands of insured Florida boats, year round, no exclusion for hurricanes.



Just cruise through Fort Lauderdale and look around you. Do you think all those boats aren't insured? We had a choice of many excellent insurers to choose from.

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Couldn't agree more. In insurance parlance, there is no such thing as a bad risk, only a bad price. High risk equals high price. Insurance was not difficult for me, leaving boat full time in southwest Florida. The other corollary that drives me crazy is saying it's unwise to take a boat trip in Florida during Hurricane season. Heck, I far prefer swimming in warm water, don't you? Late September/ early October is great weather and warm water.

OK guys help me here...

So you've got a boat in Florida, and as of Tuesday morning you know that sometime Sunday a storm is probably going to hit your area.

That means you have 5 days to get your boat somewhere away from the coast.

With that kind of notice, couldn't you move your boat yourself somewhere inland where it would be safe? 5 days is allot of time. Even singlehanding 14 hours per day at 8 knots for 5 days means that you have the capability of moving 560NM from your present location.

Is there not comewhere in the interior of that huge state, that is accessable by water you could get to?

Tom.B said:

So let's extrapolate this just a little.

You're in a marina that says that they will take your boat away if you don't leave for a named storm. Ok, fine, however, according to the statute, they can't just cut you loose and they can't just willy-nilly the securing of it.

Let's also speculate that we are in a place like FL where there is less space in a safe harbor than there is footage of boats.

We could again speculate that the marina owners would probably not know for sure about the boat or boats that are refusing to leave for a storm until the last minute.

How would a marina owner find the resources to not only move the boat, but secure it on land or in the water where he no longer becomes liable or put themselves at risk from the storm itself? Haul out schedules in yards and protected anchorages fill up to overflowing days before a storm hits. Rental captains are busy. Crews are busy. Would they be liable if they single-handed a strange boat.

Would it then be smarter for a marina to then just secure the subject boat (or require the owner to) as best as it can and make a claim on the boats insurance (assuming they require it) for any damage to the marina assets?

And finally... while the statues in many states say you might not have to leave, it doesn't say that the marina has any obligation to renew you lease after the storm is gone either.

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In practice, in South Florida that's the situation. The marinas don't try to force people away. They do try to make sure all boats are secured well and no items are in the open that can become projectiles. They have no reason not to renew as these are good customers. Now, what you won't see them tolerate is boats tied with too few or too small lines or not tied properly in other ways. Plus if they have to take your canvas off and store it, they'll charge you.

The docks themselves are actually better off with properly docked and tied boats. Not as likely to become airborne. Now, one caveat and that is with new docks built regularly, most of the local marinas here in Fort Lauderdale have never experienced a hurricane hit directly. 2005, Wilma hit just north and west of the city and the marinas, so some impact but not that of a direct hit plus it was 105 mph. In 1999, Irene was 75 mph.

Non lawyer here, but do have experience owning a small marina. There is an element of maritime law in play here, that regarding safe harbor. Regardless of the contract or local or state law, you can not evict a vessel into peril of a storm. If evicted and harm comes to the vessel afterward, you can be liable. Marina contracts dance around this...

To the OP, might be worth discussing with a colleague in the maritime field.

ksanders said:

OK guys help me here...

So you've got a boat in Florida, and as of Tuesday morning you know that sometime Sunday a storm is probably going to hit your area.

That means you have 5 days to get your boat somewhere away from the coast.

With that kind of notice, couldn't you move your boat yourself somewhere inland where it would be safe? 5 days is allot of time. Even singlehanding 14 hours per day at 8 knots for 5 days means that you have the capability of moving 560NM from your present location.

Is there not comewhere in the interior of that huge state, that is accessable by water you could get to?

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I happen to live in Atlanta and keep my boat near Ft Myers. I'm not going to either fly or drive into south Florida this week to move the boat. I have no assurance I could locate a safe anchorage or a safer marina. That hurricane path means no point in going to east coast Florida, anywhere west coast Florida, nor even Alabama/ Mississippi, etc. Any of those might be as bad or worse than my home marina. We are 5 days out and the National Hurricane Center says their guess 5 days out averages 225 miles off target. I guess one could try to go up Mobile Bay and into the Tenn-Tom waterway.

I'm in a modern marina in Cape Coral with 2 luxury condo towers and a Westin hotel on 2 sides, with mangroves on another side and no fetch. I'm betting my own slip, with lots of extra lines put on by very experienced folks is the best solution. If not, that's what insurance is for. I'm not going to fret, but I'm certainly watching with great interest.

ksanders said:

OK guys help me here...

So you've got a boat in Florida, and as of Tuesday morning you know that sometime Sunday a storm is probably going to hit your area.

That means you have 5 days to get your boat somewhere away from the coast.

With that kind of notice, couldn't you move your boat yourself somewhere inland where it would be safe? 5 days is allot of time. Even singlehanding 14 hours per day at 8 knots for 5 days means that you have the capability of moving 560NM from your present location.

Is there not comewhere in the interior of that huge state, that is accessable by water you could get to?

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A few problems. Where? Will it really be safer? What risk are you creating for yourself?

As of Tuesday, we have no idea where the hurricane is going to hit. Therefore, we secure and protect where we are. Now, we could have decided today to get on a boat and head north. We have a lot more things though here in Fort Lauderdale that we choose instead to keep an eye on and take care of. We would rather be closer.

In the past, many people have headed north up the coast only to have the hurricane miss South Florida and make land where they headed. This happens on the water and on land. What if we'd done what you describe for Matthew? It didn't hit here but sure got the coast further north.

There's an underlying assumption in your post that we know safer places to move to than our well secured location where we're currently docked. They are taking Okeechobee down now, trying to reduce it's water level to prevent flooding there, by the way.

They don't even know where to send those evacuating by car.

And then perhaps a few of us could move, but that leaves 99% of the boats still here. There's a tendency to underestimate the number of boats here. What do you do with a hundred thousand boats?

In your scenario, that would get someone to Beaufort NC running outside but only to Charleston SC running inside. Running outside would have been problematic looking at how conditions are worsening this week.

Plus in our case, we flew from Corpus Christi to Charlotte yesterday and didn't get home until today.

I feel like our boats are well protected. Is it perfect? Of course not. Just the best we, and the collective wisdom of those we've talked to, know to do.

I know to many it makes no sense to be here, but it does to us. On top of home and family and friends we also have 3000 employees in South Florida that we're concerned about.

That's our logic. May not make sense to you coming at it from a different place and perspective.

Ski in NC said:

Non lawyer here, but do have experience owning a small marina. There is an element of maritime law in play here, that regarding safe harbor. Regardless of the contract or local or state law, you can not evict a vessel into peril of a storm. If evicted and harm comes to the vessel afterward, you can be liable. Marina contracts dance around this...

To the OP, might be worth discussing with a colleague in the maritime field.

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Goof point and I've seen that used in NC. One marina had it in the contract and told all the boaters they had to move their boats. 30 or so did not. What is the marina then going to do? Nothing.

ksanders said:

OK guys help me here...

So you've got a boat in Florida, and as of Tuesday morning you know that sometime Sunday a storm is probably going to hit your area.

That means you have 5 days to get your boat somewhere away from the coast.

With that kind of notice, couldn't you move your boat yourself somewhere inland where it would be safe? 5 days is allot of time. Even singlehanding 14 hours per day at 8 knots for 5 days means that you have the capability of moving 560NM from your present location.

Is there not comewhere in the interior of that huge state, that is accessable by water you could get to?

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Assuming one knew where the storm was going to track, there would be safe places to minimize risk. The main issue is the track can go almost anywhere in the state at this point. But, if in south FL, I would consider running to a part of the defunct cross Florida canal.

Thans guys...

I've never been to Florida. Certainly never boated there.

I was just thinking, that if you lived there you should have a plan. Something thought out in advance. Arrangments made in advance. A place to hide picked out in advance.

Thats just the prepper in me...

David Hughes said:

I happen to live in Atlanta and keep my boat near Ft Myers. I'm not going to either fly or drive into south Florida this week to move the boat. I have no assurance I could locate a safe anchorage or a safer marina. That hurricane path means no point in going to east coast Florida, anywhere west coast Florida, nor even Alabama/ Mississippi, etc. Any of those might be as bad or worse than my home marina. We are 5 days out and the National Hurricane Center says their guess 5 days out averages 225 miles off target. I guess one could try to go up Mobile Bay and into the Tenn-Tom waterway.

I'm in a modern marina in Cape Coral with 2 luxury condo towers and a Westin hotel on 2 sides, with mangroves on another side and no fetch. I'm betting my own slip, with lots of extra lines put on by very experienced folks is the best solution. If not, that's what insurance is for. I'm not going to fret, but I'm certainly watching with great interest.

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Quite agree David, drove around your marina 3 weeks ago...the only issue there might be is the storm surge on top of xtra hi tide...but that's going to be anywhere...insurance is really the key...
Very unwise to move a boat if it is in a secure place....no way to determine exactly where a storm is going to go until its too late to move...
I hope all fair well...

Tom.B said:

And finally... while the statues in many states say you might not have to leave, it doesn't say that the marina has any obligation to renew you lease after the storm is gone either.

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Those would be the marinas no longer in business.

ksanders said:

Thans guys...

I've never been to Florida. Certainly never boated there.

I was just thinking, that if you lived there you should have a plan. Something thought out in advance. Arrangments made in advance. A place to hide picked out in advance.

Thats just the prepper in me...

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We have a plan. We have a home built and then modified to Miami/Dade standards plus. We have food. We have generators. We have the boats tucked safely away in a nice secluded area with an excellent dock. We even have RIB's in our garages. We also have access to Condos that are not in an evacuation zone and our office which isn't. We have a boat docked at the condos. We have each of our closest friends/family with plans and meeting tomorrow morning to confirm them all with all options. We will all work together for safety and protection. Also reminders of what to do, where to go in the house, how to protect oneself. Just because the plan doesn't seem like the one you'd make, doesn't mean it isn't a plan.

The only remaining things we have to do is move all outdoor furniture inside, which won't take long. Then at some point closer decide exactly which home we want to all be in.

We have friends who are yacht managers and have all the boats they manage secured and have hurricane windows, doors, and roof for their homes. Also, a sister with a home a little west of them.

There is no perfect plan. I can certainly see why it would seem illogical to someone living where you do. Huge areas there with few people and few boats.

Evacuation is done only for surge, not for wind. In the Keys all area is low so evacuation areas. All of Monroe county is an evacuation zone. Only relatively small parts of Miami/Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties are. If everyone tried to evacuate you would have thousands stranded on the highways. You can't evacuate 7 million people so that's not what you plan.

Hurricane plans really are something you prepare for well in advance and then as one approaches you just choose from among your options you planned.

Just heard a good quote. "You hide from the wind, run from the water." That's our plan. Water wise we'll be safe and we'll hide from the wind.

menzies said:

Those would be the marinas no longer in business.

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That from Menzies who is an excellent example of prepared. His location is about as good as one could find.

How about this? I am in a small shipyard up a creek in St. Petersburg having some work done. They currently have about 10 boats on the hard and two boats on a small floating finger pier. I am one of the boats on the finger pier. They tell me that they expect to finish the work on my boat on Thursday and that I will have to leave when done. I was told that if I stay through the hurricane I will have to pay a lump sum $1200. I don't currently pay for dockage as its presumably covered in the repair cost. They only charge me for power. My dock neighbor however is charged $2 per foot per day. At that rate I would be paying $104 per day.
Assuming they do finish on Thursday by close of business I will have no option but to stay because there will be no safe location that I know of that I can get to on Friday.
I heard also that they were going to start tomorrow to put the boats on the hard that can float back in the water and tell owners to come get them. The area has flooded in the past and boats have floated off the jack stands. The owner told me today that I am safer at the dock than I would be on the hard.
A fine predicament I must say.

Some of your marinas sound a little shy on good customer relations.
I`m wondering what obligation or duty the marina has to you and your boat if they tell you to leave as per the Agreement you made with them, and you don`t. I understand they can do things with the boat and charge you for it, so if they have that right(?obligation) they may have a continuing obligation to you. But, I`m wondering if the Agreements commonly make some provision about that.

The problems come when even after super prep at a marina the storm surge gets over the piling height.

15+ ft of extra water is beyond most pilings ,docks and boats float off together.

There is no great solution , but anchoring above the storm surge in a creek or river with SOFT sides , sand or muck no rip rap, where it will be less damaging to be blown ashore and easier to be pulled off would be my choice if cruising..

The FL bridges stop opening with over 35 mph winds or long lines of traffic evacuating , so find your spot early sounds like the best plan .

LUCY is at out dock in Ortona , so our biggest fear is not the breeze or the water height , unless the berm on Lake O blows out again.

Just to the East of our location is a long canal that would be perfect (mostly sand sided) and probably 3/4 mile long .It ends in a pond that has a sand bottom and sides locally called Lolypop as that is what it looks like on a chart.

About 30-40 ft deep could also be a choice.

Good luck to all,,