Cabin heaters

What are folks using for cabin heaters in colder climates? I dont have a generator ( and I don't want one) . My reverse cycle system heats well but that only works for me on shore power.

Are the Dickinson and Wallas systems good? Id like a easy and low maintenance setup. I AM NOT A LIVEABOARD either. I'm only looking to extend my season into November and resume in April.

I have an Espar Hydronic system and a Dickinson Antarctic. I like them both.

Espar has fan heaters throughout the boat so distributes heat well. The programmable timer means I can warm things up an hour before we are out of bed. Hydronic is a bit more work (and expense) to install though most users (me included) think it is worth it. It uses battery power to run the heater and the fans, plus we have an additional pump for hot water circulation as the boat is large.

The Dickinson is wonderful for the lounge. With the viewing window it provides a cozy atmosphere like a fireplace. It uses no electricity. As it is radient heat it does not reach the far sections of the boat as well as the Espar. It does take ~3/4 hour to get running and heated up, but then it will run quite happily for days on end. I understand this is what they are designed for. Some people have had challenges with soot from the chimney. We have not.

With both running we have been out in -9 degree celcius weather and have had to open windows to cool things down!

If all you are looking to do is extend your season a bit, I would focus on these in order of cost:
1. Propane heaters
2. Dickenson type bulkhead heater
3. Permanently installed forced air like the Espar

The hydronic systems will be much more expensive.

A Mr Heater or similar radiant heater plumbed to your boat's propane system will add ten degrees or so to your cabin and feel even warmer if the radiant element is pointed your way.

A Dickenson diesel or propane heater will heat the whole cabin.

An Espar forced air heater can be ducted to all cabins to heat the entire boat.

David

I have a Hurricane II hydronic system on my current boat. It is wonderful. It gives very even heat and has thermostats in every section of the boat so it can be adjusted as needed.

I have a Wallace forced air system in my 40' sailboat. It also works wonderfully well. The heat isn't as even but it heats up very fast. We have it ducted to saloon, both cabins, and both heads. The ducts can be closed off for those areas that we aren't using but it only has one thermostat in the saloon.

I would agree with the other, that the hydronic systems are really, really nice but would be much more expensive to install. In your situation, I would install a forced air diesel furnace. The Dickenson's are great, but you have to devote some saloon space for them and you are looking for simply an adjunct heat. With a diesel forced air furnace, I would bet that you would find you would use the reverse cycle only for AC.

We have a Dickinson Propane fireplace on Ebbtide. Silent and pumps heat out like crazy. It is plumed in with our stove supply.

I have 3 bus style heaters that heat the boat nicely circulating the engine coolant while underway. Have an electric blanket that draw very modest amps running off the inverter. I winter in South Florida which negates the need for any more.

Ted

Hurricane with radiators, hate those noisy bus heaters.

....and along comes D.B. Cooper.....

If you have a boat with only an upper helm, is there a way to heat the bridge enclosure with engine heat ? The only time you'd need it warm was while the engine(s) were running...and the engines are producing all that heat.....and you might not get it toasty warm....but if you could get the enclosure to ...say 50 degrees when it was 30 degrees out...that would make an upper helm only boat a lot more useable....thoughts ??

I have Wallis diesel cooktop and oven; delighted with them. The cooktop has a cabin heat function which works very well. Although the fan is a little noisy, if you want a quick warm up, it is pretty good. Right beside the Wallis, I have a Sigmar 180 diesel fireplace, which does a good job over a longer term.

We have three diesel forced air furnaces. One for the salon, one for the lower cabins, and one for the pilothouse.

They are all Wallace units with a total capacity of 27K btu

They are quiet, pretty fuel efficient, and keep the boat comfortable in any weather.

Hey, definitely get a heater that brings fresh air to your cabin, while drying the boat and removing carbon dioxide, fresh air is the key to comfort when you are in the boat.

Experience yourself with Wallas, eberspäher and webasto heaters. I should flag Wallas because made in my home country, but I think honestly can not say who is the best device.

As a hint put the exhaust pipe on the other side of the air intake to the cabin and the second advice do not buy too large a model, it works better when not running at the lowest power and the time the device starts to start badly, fuel quality also decides on cleanliness and power kw / weight.

Currently the heater is espar D5 air 18 800 btu my NT37 and it has worked for 8 years well, here is a pretty cool climate and I use it often, heat is enough even though it would have been -6 ° C and water 1.6 ° C .

Benthic2 said:

....and along comes D.B. Cooper.....

If you have a boat with only an upper helm, is there a way to heat the bridge enclosure with engine heat ? The only time you'd need it warm was while the engine(s) were running...and the engines are producing all that heat.....and you might not get it toasty warm....but if you could get the enclosure to ...say 50 degrees when it was 30 degrees out...that would make an upper helm only boat a lot more useable....thoughts ??

Click to expand...

Yes it could be done.

I would use a good heat exchanger and small 12V solar system pumpto the buss heater or radiator so engine coolant isnt travelling so far (I have that set up with my bus heater).

psneeld said:

Yes it could be done.

I would use a good heat exchanger and small 12V solar system pumpto the buss heater or radiator so engine coolant isnt travelling so far (I have that set up with my bus heater).

Click to expand...

Isotherm heather big value of money, examples https://www.westmarine.com/buy/isot...at-exchanger-10-kw-with-12-volt-fan--17157256

South of Heaven said:

What are folks using for cabin heaters in colder climates? I dont have a generator ( and I don't want one) . My reverse cycle system heats well but that only works for me on shore power.

Click to expand...

Some previous live-aboard dock neighbors added a resistance heat unit to their existing reverse cycle system. They said once exterior water temps got too cold, they just shut the sea cocks and used the resistance heat source. All through the same ducting system.

Would still only work for you when on shorepower, I guess... Dunno if an inverter would power it, but I suspect not.

-Chris

Thanks guys. Ive got lots more research to do before I make my decision. September in New England is great cruising weather but October can be chilly for sure. I'm hoping to have the purchase and install done in a few weeks......fingers crossed

Benthic2 said:

....and along comes D.B. Cooper.....

If you have a boat with only an upper helm, is there a way to heat the bridge enclosure with engine heat ? The only time you'd need it warm was while the engine(s) were running...and the engines are producing all that heat.....and you might not get it toasty warm....but if you could get the enclosure to ...say 50 degrees when it was 30 degrees out...that would make an upper helm only boat a lot more useable....thoughts ??

Click to expand...

psneeld said:

Yes it could be done.

I would use a good heat exchanger and small 12V solar system pumpto the buss heater or radiator so engine coolant isnt travelling so far (I have that set up with my bus heater).

Click to expand...

Yes, that would work very nicely. Have a 12 volt pump to boost the flow rate (increase heater btu output) on my 100' heater loop. For a setup in the pilothouse, a transmission cooler would work well with the engine coolant flowing through the tubes. Locate the pump and reservoir in the pilothouse so that the pump isn't working against a head pressure for initial priming. Once the loop is completely filled, there is almost no head resistance and it will work with a very modest pump.

Ted

I have a Dickinson diesel STOVE in my 32' boat My wife and I think it's great. However, it only heats the salon. It came with the boat and I almost tossed it, untill I realized the cost and complications of replacement. It was unreliable untill I talked to Dickinson and now it's great, So I fixed it and for 30 yrs it has been great. We used to winter boat in freezing weather. It's not for everyone though as some compromises are needed.
We too have no generator so the battery capacity was a factor.

We have several friends that have smaller, bulk head mounted Dickinsons that use either Diesel or Propane and those units do a fine job of heating the salon in an up to about a 32' or so boat. They do use a small fan but the draw is quite small.

With most of the larger furnace type heaters battery capacity will need to be considered as the draw can be quite substantial for blowers, pumps , etc.

You show a Camano 30 so the bulkhead heaters, Dickinson or similar, maybe the Wallas, should be suitable. You just need to find a suitable mounting place. Most of these found a mounting near the cabin door.

Have you checked the Camano site to ask what others use and why.

We all recommend what we have but space, mounting, cost, battery capacity, boat size, weather, etc. need to be factored in. What's suitable for a large boat may not for you with an ~ 30' boat.

C lectric said:

I have a Dickinson diesel STOVE in my 32' boat My wife and I think it's great. However, it only heats the salon. It came with the boat and I almost tossed it, untill I realized the cost and complications of replacement. It was unreliable untill I talked to Dickinson and now it's great, So I fixed it and for 30 yrs it has been great. We used to winter boat in freezing weather. It's not for everyone though as some compromises are needed.
We too have no generator so the battery capacity was a factor.

We have several friends that have smaller, bulk head mounted Dickinsons that use either Diesel or Propane and those units do a fine job of heating the salon in an up to about a 32' or so boat. They do use a small fan but the draw is quite small.

With most of the larger furnace type heaters battery capacity will need to be considered as the draw can be quite substantial for blowers, pumps , etc.

You show a Camano 30 so the bulkhead heaters, Dickinson or similar, maybe the Wallas, should be suitable. You just need to find a suitable mounting place. Most of these found a mounting near the cabin door.

Have you checked the Camano site to ask what others use and why.

We all recommend what we have but space, mounting, cost, battery capacity, boat size, weather, etc. need to be factored in. What's suitable for a large boat may not for you with an ~ 30' boat.

Click to expand...

This IS the Camano sub forum! Unless you're talking about ECCO or CamanoPacific? Thanks for your reply regardless.

I should have been more specific. NOt T.F. but the other Camano forums which I'm guessing you have done.

I have a Dickinson Newport propane fireplace (P12000) on my sailboat. It works quite nicely. It has a double flue and a sealed combustion chamber so it draws in outside air via the outer part of the flue and exhausts up the inner part of the flue. Very safe. The only part of the unit that is too hot to touch is the glass in the door.

On the powerboat I have a Webasto forced air diesel heater. It draws more power than the propane fireplace, but also gives faster heating. It is noisier though.

If you just want to heat the main cabin on your boat the Dickinson propane fireplace is a good choice (assuming you have propane on the boat). It comes with everything you need except the propane hose.

I have put several diesel heating systems in boats the same size as your Camano. All the work done myself. Many of these boats did not have a generator, just like yours.

Here's what I found, the plusses and minuses.

Espar hydronic

The Espar hydronic systems provided the ability to heat hot water without the main engine running. I installed a couple of heat exchangers on a single loop along with the potable water heater. A switch was added to just run the "boiler" without heating up tohe boat for hot water. Otherwise the system ran off off a thermostat in the cabin. Having two thermostats was easy to do as well so you could have a closed off sleeping cabin with its own temperature control.

These systems worked very well, and make a good choice for that sized boat. A challenge is that on any hydronic system there has to be a coolant "tank" at the highest point in the system. I found that a automotive coolant overflow tank works well for that purpose. This tank is where you will fill the system from so it needs to be accessable.

A really big challenge with any hydronic system is that you cannot remove the furnace for servicing, so you really need to have a spot to install it where you have room to comfortably work on it. On many boats this meant taking over a closet to put the furnace in. This also created a noise issue, but thats the nature of those types of furnaces as thay are a type that makes a significant amount of noise.

As a FYI I have not worked with the Webasto units, but they work exactly the same as the Espar, with all the same pros and cons.

Wallas diesel stove

The Wallas Diesel stove replaced the OEM alchohol stove, which I did not like so it was an easy choice. This is a really easy installation as it dropped right in. I found that this was a great heater and stove. The concept was simple. If you leave the stove on, and shut the lid a blower turns on pushing air across the face of the sealed stove and warming the cabin. A knob regulated the amount of heat. Simple and effective. A challenge was that blowers make noise, but not so much as to affect conversation, or sleeping.

Wallas and Toyotomi forced air

The Toyotomi heater was a good unit. I was a dealer for them back in the day when I sold marine heating systems. (Something I no longer do) The Toyotomi is manufacturer discontinued. The wallas is a similar design and in my opinion a really good furnace. I have these on my current boat.

Installing a forced air furnace is easy. A great place for these is underneath a dinette seat. There is generally a storage space that can be used. Since you can take the thing out in just a few minutes you do not need full access to work on them. They are extremely quiet, and use very lttle of your limited house battery capacity.

Conclusions

I sold and serviced marine heaters for many years as part of my business. I no longer do that so I have zero to gain, only my hard earned experience to share.

I liked the hydronic unts only because of the hot water heating. On a boat in your size range heating water while on the hook is challenging, and this is where a hydronic unit shines. Other than that hydronic units are not my choice. They are noisey just due to the nature of how the burner operates, which is a stream of diesel being blown into a fast moving air stream. The sound is similar to a jet engine. In a bigger boat you can put the furnace in a place where the sound can be muffled, but on boat in the 30' size your choices are more limited.

If you take away the need to heat water the forced air units are my choice hands down. They are easier to install, they are much quieter, and they require less DC power to operate. One great advantage of the Wallas unts is that the exhause tube is enclosed in another tube dramatically reducing the temperature of the exhaust tube. This is a serious advantage from an installation standpoint. They are quieter because of the way the burner operates. These have a tube that drips diesel into a burner chamber that is bowel shaped. Air is pushed throgh the chamber but the velocity is low, and almost silent.

Best of luck on your choice

Camano Heat

I was looking at hydronic for my Camano thinking it was the best choice for power draw if shore power was cut or when on the hook. Turns out the smallest Webasto Air Top, the 2000 ST, also has low numbers to go with the simpler install.

I was wondering if folks put an outlet in the engine room as the usual electric solutions there also require shore or gen power.

You're not going to find a hydronic heater with a lower power draw than a hot air heater. A hydronic heater by the time would add the burner, the water pump and the air handler fans you're likely in the 6-8 amp range. On a boat as small as a Camano a hot air heater would work great. One thing you do get with hydronic is the ability to make domestic hot water.
Everything is a trade off, you just have to figure out what works best for how you use your boat.

The Wallas advertises very low amp draw and only needs 12V.

Very simple install depending on your intended ductwork.

My Webasto is an AirTop 2000. It runs fine off the batteries. I have no shore power and rely on solar and engine runs for charging. No problems, but I have only been running the boat for 7 years with the Webasto. The Webasto came as a kit with everything needed for the install. It took an afternoon. The only hard part was cutting the hole in the top of the diesel tank for the dedicated pickup. That was only tricky because of limited clearance over the top of the tank.

MiltonP said:

I was looking at hydronic for my Camano thinking it was the best choice for power draw if shore power was cut or when on the hook. Turns out the smallest Webasto Air Top, the 2000 ST, also has low numbers to go with the simpler install.



I was wondering if folks put an outlet in the engine room as the usual electric solutions there also require shore or gen power.

Click to expand...

That is the heater I have in my sailboat. It works great. Not sure of the power draw, but I use it on a sailboat with a single 400Ah battery bank. Never had any problems with it draining the battery overnight when anchoring in winter.

One thing that was mentioned before regarding this type of heater, is that it gives you the best reliability when it is runs at full burn. Webasto does have a thermostat that will allow it to run at a variable burn rate, but the burner can gum up over time. Using a thermostat simply turns it on and off, allows the burner to run at full and after 5 years of use, I've never had any problems.

I have had experience now with both the forced air as well as the hydronic heat. The forced air will give you faster heat. The hydronic will give you more even heat. We have found that the Hurricane II hydronic unit is quieter than the Webasto Air Top from outside of the boat. In both cases the heater is installed in the aft lazaret. In the Catalina, we have an aft master cabin. The heater is a little noisy there as it is just on the other side of the bulkhead from our heads. Never enough to bother us but we can here it. In the North Pacific we never really hear the heater inside the boat at all.

If I was in your position, I'd go with something like the Webasto Air Top. It will give you the heat you want to extend your cruising season without breaking the bank. Duct an outlet to the head and the sleeping cabin and you will be comfortable year round.

We have a forced air diesel heater that is plumbed to all parts of the boat. It works VERY well. We can raise the interior temp of the boat by 10 degrees in almost as many minutes.