Fortress for general use?

I been through many anchors with mixed results. My experience (on my 40' Silverton) includes 44# Bruce, 55# Delta, 88# Delta, 80# Manson Supreme. Last year I purchased an FX55 Fortress and am thinking about replacing the Surpreme with it.

Anybody using a Fortress for their main anchoring?

Anchor talk *ducks* reminds me of another place. I hope here is more open then mean. *popcorn*

foggysail said:

I been through many anchors with mixed results. My experience (on my 40' Silverton) includes 44# Bruce, 55# Delta, 88# Delta, 80# Manson Supreme. Last year I purchased an FX55 Fortress and am thinking about replacing the Surpreme with it.

Anybody using a Fortress for their main anchoring?

Click to expand...

Fortress is a lightweight yet strong construction high performance Danforth design anchor... with adjustable shank to fluke angle for different bottom compositions. It is a good performance, hand manageable anchor.

Just interested in what problems you're having with the manson supreme? I've got nothing but good things to say about mine.

foggysail said:

I been through many anchors with mixed results. My experience (on my 40' Silverton) includes 44# Bruce, 55# Delta, 88# Delta, 80# Manson Supreme. Last year I purchased an FX55 Fortress and am thinking about replacing the Surpreme with it.



Anybody using a Fortress for their main anchoring?

Click to expand...

I am thinking about getting a fortress to use as a backup anchor. 43' boat, lots of windage, and about 31,000 dry weight. What size/ How much chain on a combo rode?

A Fortress for main and a backup for what the Fortress dosn't do well at.

So choosing one anchor that does relatively well at/on dense weed or rocky bottoms. What anchor is that? I've considered using a Fortress many times before. Then I just got too busy experimenting w other anchors.

Once found the two anchors should be a VERY good system for boats that have hand anchoring gear. A capstan could be added and many 35 to 40' could be in this group.

Putting an all chain rode on such a light anchor would be stupid so we're talking combination rode w no more than a boat length of chain. At least 95% of the time the Fortress would be deployed so anchor handling could be very simple for many boats w owners that were previously struggling w heavy rodes.

I have both the Manson Supreme and Fortress on my bow. Both can be deployed at the push of a button. My Manson is my anchor of choice for overnight with the Fortress being used for short stops and when necessary, as a stern anchor (because it is light). The Manson is on all chain and the Fortress on rope with a 4 ft chain leader.

Neither has failed me and I have no idea if one is better than the other, it is just what I choose to do.

Foggy, I can say we used a Fortress FX-37 as our main up until the time I could get an electric windlass installed. Worked fine, here in the Chesapeake, in all conditions. In fact, we used an FX-23 briefly before that, and it worked fine, too... just wasn't as big as I wanted.

I've read some folks feel the Danforth-style anchor doesn't do well with reversing current; I've not seen that ever happen with our Fortress.

I've read some Fortress anchors can "sail" for a bit during deployment; haven't seen that either, and I suspect if it happens that could more likely apply mostly to the very small/lightweight models.

You'll likely have seen the results of the Chesapeake mud tests; what they found (relative to Fortress anchors and our mud) is what we've found. Can't speak to most of the other anchors in those tests. And of course you may not have mud.

All that said, your anchor choice probably needs to be all about your intended anchoring grounds. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to make a big Fortress my main, if target substrate seems to cooperate.

You might also give the SuperMAX a look. We've been using those since the windlass install, with the FX-37 kept as back-up/spare/kedge.

-Chris

dhays said:

I am thinking about getting a fortress to use as a backup anchor. 43' boat, lots of windage, and about 31,000 dry weight. What size/ How much chain on a combo rode?

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Dave, FWIW, our Fortress is an FX-37 for our 42' boat, approx 28K dry weight. 25' of leading chain and 300' of 8-plait rope. Usually it takes some serious work to unglue the anchor from the bottom.

I'd actually use more chain, elsewhere, but it's not really necessary here, and takes so long to clean the mud out of the links...

-Chris

Most danforth style anchors I have used have more problems setting than my Bruces, Deltas and now Manson Supreme that I have used as primaries through the years.

Once stuck, they sure have holding power, but unless you know they are really stuck, just a guess.

For my 40 foot (small 40) trawler, my 60 pound Manson Supreme has been, well supreme.

I bought a Fortress 23 as a backup and second for storms.

I would only use it in heavy conditions if I could dive on it to ensure its set or if I backed on it as heavy as the conditions I expected.

Now, danforth styles in bigger sizes I think can set more reliably than smaller ones .....so my personal data is skewed. My guess is that they get through grass better, normal sized shells dont jamb the flukes or get impaled on the fluke tips as easily...so more reliable sets.

What size do they need to be to set reliably? I don't know and some people swear by them.

Based on the looks of my 23X Fortress, I would think the next size up starts to outgrow some of the smaller size shortfalls and it or your 80 pound Manson would both be pretty solid performers.

In an emergency anchoring situation, my gut would say drop the Manson.

Let me tell you my Fortress anchor story, again.

I was anchored at Jewell island in Maine which has a moderate reversing current running through it. After anchoring for a few days, a nearby boat pulled up his anchor. It was a Fortress and his anchor chain had formed a ball surrounding the anchor as it caught in the flukes when the current reversed. The only thing holding him in place was the dead weight of that mess.

It took him almost an hour to untangle the mess.

The moral- don't use a Fortress if you expect the wind/current direction to change. But for great, straight ahead holding power in mud, it can't be beat.

David

I use a Fortress 23 for my primary. Works fine in my local stuff (sand, mud, shellbank). I have no windlass so the lighter weight makes it easier on my back.

Only place I had trouble was in the Keys where there was a thin layer of eel snot on top of flat caprock. Not sure anything would work there.

In reality, it maybe does not mean much here anymore with most of the harbors placing anchoring restrictions. There are plenty of places in the open water they have no objection to although I will do that only in emergencies.

My boat is 40' with a lot of canvas that completely encloses the boat. The 25+years with my sailboat never saw us on a mooring or slip, when away from our home slip we anchored. Towards the end though, my 44# Bruce became unreliable due to ell grass.

Around here in Massachusetts there are many days with wind gusts over 30K and that was what motivated me to move to larger anchors. One is very lucky when there is room to set out enough rode for a scope of 4. An other option is to reconstruct my bow pulpit to accommodate 2 anchors and not looking to do that.

My opinion is that you don't have an anchor problem, but a technique issue. If all those different anchors are problematic, so will the Fortress. An 88# Delta held my 56 foot Hatteras, a far larger and heavier overall boat, quite well in a variety of waters in New England and the entire eastern seaboard, multiple days, conditions and sea beds.

ranger42c said:

Dave, FWIW, our Fortress is an FX-37 for our 42' boat, approx 28K dry weight. 25' of leading chain and 300' of 8-plait rope. Usually it takes some serious work to unglue the anchor from the bottom.

I'd actually use more chain, elsewhere, but it's not really necessary here, and takes so long to clean the mud out of the links...

-Chris

Click to expand...

Thanks Chris.

I use a Danforth almost exclusively in the eastern LI Sound, Block Island, etc area with all chain. It sets instantly, burries deep, doesn't foul, and I usually have to work to get it out.
A Fortress would perform the same way.

How big is your Dan?

jleonard said:

I use a Danforth almost exclusively in the eastern LI Sound, Block Island, etc area with all chain. It sets instantly, burries deep, doesn't foul, and I usually have to work to get it out.
A Fortress would perform the same way.

Click to expand...

Be careful Jay... that you don't hook onto our 50 lb Danforth in the big bay at the Block. She got hooked into something back in 1966 +/-. After hours trying to get it loose we cut the line.

I recall we were pretty close to the right side shore after entering the inlet and traveling a few minutes on idle.

djmarchand said:

After anchoring for a few days, a nearby boat pulled up his anchor. It was a Fortress and his anchor chain had formed a ball surrounding the anchor as it caught in the flukes when the current reversed. The only thing holding him in place was the dead weight of that mess.

It took him almost an hour to untangle the mess.

Click to expand...

How did he discover (decide?) it wasn't really set? (or set anymore? or whatever...)

Did he know for sure it was set in the first place?

FWIW, when we've pulled ours out after use, we often have caked-on mud about halfway up the shank...

-Chris

Nomad Willy said:

How big is your Dan?

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It's a 35 lb high tensile.

Art, several years ago we were diving in the water ski area. We found a length of anchor chain. We tried for about 20 minutes and could not get the anchor up. Maybe that was yours LOL

jleonard said:

It's a 35 lb high tensile.

Art, several years ago we were diving in the water ski area. We found a length of anchor chain. We tried for about 20 minutes and could not get the anchor up. Maybe that was yours LOL

Click to expand...

We had about 20' 3/8" [maybe 1/4" ??] chain then 3/4" [maybe 5/8"??] white nylon 3 strand. The Danforth was I believe a 50 pounder. Maybe a 45 pounder?? She was really stuck. Could be the one you played with is [was] ours???? Bet there are plenty of other lost anchors in the area!

djmarchand said:

Let me tell you my Fortress anchor story, again.

I was anchored at Jewell island in Maine which has a moderate reversing current running through it. After anchoring for a few days, a nearby boat pulled up his anchor. It was a Fortress and his anchor chain had formed a ball surrounding the anchor as it caught in the flukes when the current reversed. The only thing holding him in place was the dead weight of that mess.

It took him almost an hour to untangle the mess.

The moral- don't use a Fortress if you expect the wind/current direction to change. But for great, straight ahead holding power in mud, it can't be beat.

David

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I'll second that. I used to use my Fortress a few years ago (8 maybe?) as my main. I anchored and stayed for a few days with no issues. We spun around a few times due to changes in wind and, in some cases tide when the wind was calm.

I even dove on it on the late afternoon of the 3rd day. The chain was making a lazy spiral with a radius of maybe 10 feet around the anchor and just a speck of the tab and one stabilizer bar exposed. I went into shore to have dinner on our last night. When I came back out the boat was gone.

The wind had picked up a bit causing the chain to sweep the anchor and foul it. now the boat is pulling the chain and the chain is pulling the back of the anchor and it popped. It couldn't reset as it was a ball of chain and anchor skidded across a sandy seabed that should have very good holding.

The boat was salvaged and I got a $5,000 bill from the salvage company.

Their official position to address such concerns is to deploy TWO anchors.

I still have a Fortress, but use it as a stern anchor. It hasn't seen the water in 7 years. I had told this story on a few forums and then the Fortress marketing team asked me to 'cease and desist'. I won't, however I found it very comical.

I've used a Rocna, a Manson Supreme. I currently have a Rocna Vulcan which is very similar to a Spade. I would never use a Fortress a main anchor again.

Like any anchor thread I guess it is just a matter of preference, technique and bottom type etc so take the following as a testimony and in no way as an appraisal.

I have a fortress as my main and a danforth as a backup that I never used. I am spending most of my weekend at the anchor, in bay on the river, clay/mud bottom. Wind are generally calm to moderate but we had some nights with guts at 25 knots. Wind are often reversing from day to night.
First night at the anchor I was very nervous, did not sleep well as it was my first time. But in 2 years we never had any issue. Worst night was a strong wind on the wrong direction for the bay, I was hearing the anchor rope cracking under tension but we did not move an inch.

L

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
How big is your Dan?
It's a 35 lb high tensile.


Like the Dan on the left .. or the right?
In my pic the left Dan has forged flukes and shank.
The one on the right (much more common) has a forged shank and L shaped (inboard) bent sheet metal flukes. the attach point where the stock goes through the shank reveals a far more robust shank attach eye on the left anchor.

I have a 13lb version of the Dan on the right. One of my favorite anchors. But I suspect you have what they call "High Tensil" as on the left in my pic. I've not got that one wet. I's been used a lot and is bent in several ways. some day I'll have it sand blasted, straightened and refinished. It's 22lbs.

djmarchand said:

Let me tell you my Fortress anchor story, again.

I was anchored at Jewell island in Maine which has a moderate reversing current running through it. After anchoring for a few days, a nearby boat pulled up his anchor. It was a Fortress and his anchor chain had formed a ball surrounding the anchor as it caught in the flukes when the current reversed. The only thing holding him in place was the dead weight of that mess.

It took him almost an hour to untangle the mess.

The moral- don't use a Fortress if you expect the wind/current direction to change. But for great, straight ahead holding power in mud, it can't be beat.

David

Click to expand...

David,
These anchors aren't perfect. Why do you expect them to have perfect performance? Every single anchor out there, even the most popular ones have flaws. The Dans have apendages and they cause problems at times. Turn on your anchor alarm or stand watch.

The anchoring game has no guarantees. All of them fail at times. Most skippers here seem to think the anchoring game is to find the perfect anchor and then tell horror stories about brand X. Elevate onself to the one that knows. All others are fools.
It's actually about doing the best you can w what you've got and being happy w your experiences.. minus the one's where you applied the wrong seamanship.

There's perfect and there's trustworthy.

For general use I prefer trustworthy over the imagonary perfect.

Trustworthy is a personal thing, and I have my own set of standards based on my personal anchoring experiences.

What happens to others is noteworthy, but because anchoring is an individual thing, I go by what anchor works for me.

That's why anchoring threads are so controversial.

I thought the problem with Danforth type anchors(and some others),as found by the SV Panope testing, was reset performance after wind/current change, rather than initial set.
Reset can occur not at a time of your choosing, perhaps without your knowledge due to sleep or presence onboard,and is an important consideration. If a reset fails, trouble looms.

I think some Big Bux$$ Corp should design and manufacturer an electric "Auger-Anchor System(TM)" that has remote control forward and reverse settings!

An "Anchor Sea-View(TM)" camera [for computer view aboard boat] would also be great to know just what is going on in the deep. "Anchor Tight-Lite"(TM) could shine when camera is checked at night or if water is deep enough so that sunlight is too subdued.

Vertical stabilizer gyro would enable true-plumb descending angle/position while auger screws into sea bottom!

Where the rode attaches to the anchor top could have 360 degree swivel ball... similar to the swivel-ball on a boxing speed bag - I know those very well, from past years in training.

Cone shield would rest over the motor, gyro and auger bit. It would touch the sea bed when auger is fully entrenched... therefore... when current or wind reverses boat direction the rode [chain or line] can not wrap around any portion of the anchor. In other words... any direction is the same direction for incredible holding power provided by the "Auger-Anchor System"(TM)


I imagine, due to operational complications/circumstances, the "Auger-Anchor System"(TM) would minimum need to weigh in at the 100 to 150 pound range...


Storage on board boat would be a task to design - but, that requirement could be accomplished. Deployment and retrieval operations would need to be accomplished by a relatively sophisticated electric power apparatus.

Cost: Thousand$ each.

That said - - > Correctly designed and deployed "Auger-Anchor System"(TM) would provide great piece of mind and could save the cost of a beached/ruined/sunken boat!

OK - Big Bux$$ Corp... Get With It!

Happy Perfect-Anchor Daze! - Art

"You'll likely have seen the results of the Chesapeake mud tests; what they found (relative to Fortress anchors and our mud) is what we've found. Can't speak to most of the other anchors in those tests. And of course you may not have mud."

The Chesapeake tests were run out of the Maryland Marine Biological Laboratory in Solomons MD. Their high tech research ship Rachael Carson was used for the tests. In the anchor test write up, much was made of the capabilities and precision of of the ship. The anchor tests were odd and did not reflect real world anchoring. The testing protocol was designed by and was paid for by Fortress. And guess what anchor won! Amazingly it was the Fortress. The following year I was at the MD MBL to write a story for Chesapeake Bay magazine about one of the graduate student research projects there. By that time, the staff at the MD MBL was already saying, "Well I'm sure you have read by now the results of our thoroughly discredited tests". They recognized that the test protocol was unusual.

I have experienced the Fortess planing, I have experienced failure to reset in reversing currents. I switched to Manson about 4 years ago. We cruise full time and over the past 8 years have seen a huge swing in what cruisers are using. The Fortress is now quite rare and the spade anchors are prevalent. Rocna, Manson, Mantus, Ultra etc., are the anchors of choice today and with good reason. In the real world testing of real cruisers, the Fortress has been replaced by the spade type anchors, and with good reason, they set quickly hold well and reset in reversing currents. I still keep a Fortress as a stern anchor, it is light and easy to deploy from our dinghy.

caltexflanc said:

My opinion is that you don't have an anchor problem, but a technique issue. If all those different anchors are problematic, so will the Fortress. An 88# Delta held my 56 foot Hatteras, a far larger and heavier overall boat, quite well in a variety of waters in New England and the entire eastern seaboard, multiple days, conditions and sea beds.

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AAAhhhh technique! Would you elaborate please? Is there a special technique known only to the chosen and the uninitiated commoners left to slowly lowering an anchor, letting one's boat gently tug on the rode for a short time prior to setting it with applied force? And of course there is always the need for scope. Chapman's book highly recommends 10 which is completely impossible in our crowded harbors.

I never had problems with over 25 years anchoring until I purchased my Silverton and took the effort to totally enclose the boat. The canvas increases the wind loading substantially.