Salmon Farm Falls Apart

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Edelweiss

Edelweiss

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Last week extreme tidal action caused one of three floating Atlantic Salmon Farm pens to collapse at Cypress Island, near Anacortes, Wa. Pen contained 300,000, 10+ lb fish and an unknown number, most likely in the tens of thousands escaped. Fish and Wildlife says, no limit go get'm. At 0600 this morning probably 100 plus boats were anchored up to accomplish just that. What a cluster[emoji15]
 
edelweiss said:
last week extreme tidal action caused one of three floating atlantic salmon farm pens to collapse at cypress island, near anacortes, wa. Pen contained 300,000, 10+ lb fish and an unknown number, most likely in the tens of thousands escaped. Fish and wildlife says, no limit go get'm. At 0600 this morning probably 100 plus boats were anchored up to accomplish just that. What a cluster[emoji15]
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Washington's already stressed fishery will suffer for this criminal negligence. This is exactly the sort of mis-management which justifies the State of Alaska's ban on salmon farming. The eclipse has been blamed, as though lunar mechanics are not predictable centuries in advance.
 
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The irony is killing me. The differential of taking your boat to catch wild salmon compared to commercial guys is what 5 : 1 ( say, costs you $100/lb ). Farmed salmon? My word.
 
AlaskaProf said:
Washington's already stressed fishery will suffer for this criminal negligence. This is exactly the sort of mis-management which justifies the State of Alaska's ban on salmon farming. The eclipse has been blamed, as though lunar mechanics are not predictable centuries in advance.
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Am I missing something here. Arn't govts and conservationists always advocating for an increase in fish stocks. Rather than condemning, we should be thanking this fish farm for adding to the salmon stocks at no cost to the taxpayer. For the Fish and Wildlife Dept to allow fishermen to ignore fishing laws is misguided to say the least.
 
Joking right?

Ever heard of "native species" vs feral invasives?

Increasing dwindling stocks is accomplished by backing off on our constant over-harvesting, trying to let nature restore her own balances.
 
Rossland said:
Am I missing something here.
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Yes. You are missing something.

The Atlantic Salmon (salmo salar) is not an anadromous species, like the salmon of the PNW, which spawn in fresh water, grow in the vast oceanic wastes and return to spawn once and die. The invasive Atlantic, which are markedly inferior in every way, compete for habitat and consume juvenile native stocks for multiple years. The reason the State of WA has declared open season is because they want every one eradicated before they spawn. Which won't happen unless they ban farming.
 
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Wikipedia..... "Most Atlantic salmon follow an anadromous fish migration pattern,[3] in that they undergo their greatest feeding and......"

For lox, its OK....and has to do that for many millions of bagel eaters back east. :)

Agree Pacific Salmon better eating....

But unless the fresh caught salmon out west are better than restaurant Pacific Salmon. The only really good salmon I ever had was up in Alaska.
 
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Really? I was always told the Scottish was tops? Forty years ago was $40 a pound. . .

Is Nova Scotia the Atlantic type?
 
john61ct said:
Really? I was always told the Scottish was tops? Forty years ago was $40 a pound. . .

Is Nova Scotia the Atlantic type?
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Well, it's complicated.

Nova and Scottish were the best which were available to much of the population, centered in the northeastern US, in the era before overnight air freight made the superior Pacific species available.

But even then, you were talking about "wild caught" Atlantic salmon, which fed on other sea creatures, as opposed to modern farmed fish which eat a pelleted meal consisting of corn, soy, and gods know what else. This crap includes dyes, to create the pink flesh consumers expect, and antibiotics as a prophylactic for diseases likely to occur in the crowded environment existing in the pens.

Think: "Soylent Pink."
 
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Ireland is worried about Atlantic salmon. Just read a story that some had been caught and the government wanted people to report any fish that had been seen or caught so the fish could be tracked. They are worried about the native salmon being impacted by the Atlantic salmon.

Later,
Dan
 
Norway's farms are huge, a major part of the non-petro economy.

And I assume an ecological nightmare.
 
john61ct said:
Norway's farms are huge, a major part of the non-petro economy.

And I assume an ecological nightmare.
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I know nothing about Norway's fishing industry. What fish are native, and what fish are being farmed?

The biggest problem, as I understand it, is that in the PNW we are farming a fish that is not native to the region. When they get loose, the impact is unpredictable.

In other areas of the world if they are farming a native fish, that issue is gone. There are other issues of course related to farming fish.
 
Not fishing, industrial fish*farming*.

The Norwegians also run mega farms all around the world.

Dunno species, but lots of parasite issues, antibiotics that mess with the wildlife.
 
dhays said:
The biggest problem, as I understand it, is that in the PNW we are farming a fish that is not native to the region. When they get loose, the impact is unpredictable.

In other areas of the world if they are farming a native fish, that issue is gone. There are other issues of course related to farming fish.
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I wished I would have saved the newspaper article from Wa. Dept of Fisheries. Can't find it now, but basically it answered some of these questions. I found another that paraphrased their comments:

In the 1980's WDFW and BC fisheries attempted numerous times to introduce wild Atlantic Salmon (Salmo) into some of the rivers in BC and Washington. But none of the attempts to establish an Atlantic Salmon population succeeded as the smolts never returned after they were release. (Article didn't say why?)

The WDFW said Atlantic salmon is a “favored species” to farm in cold marine waters because it grows quickly and consistently, is resistant to disease, and is something people like to eat. Farmed Atlantic salmon are more docile, less aggressive and more resistant to disease than wild Pacific salmon. Atlantic salmon also have been bred to more “efficiently turn feed into flesh,”

Atlantic salmon are actually more closely related to brown trout than Pacific salmon. That’s why they don’t breed with Pacific salmon — even when researchers have tried to force it in the lab, Rush said.
ps. (This is why the UK is concerned about the farmed fish, as they're the same genetic species as European Atlantic Salmon and could mess up their wild fish genetic pool.)

According to NOAA, escaped farmed salmon that carry diseases have a relatively low risk of spreading them to wild fish. Mainly because those pathogens are already present in the water, escapees likely won’t be a threat to a healthy wild populations. Farmed fish are domesticated to eat pelleted feed and would be unable to compete in the wild. They disappear quickly in the wild, most often eaten by predators.

Opponents say their greatest concerns are that the permanently moored fish pens may bring with them area pollution, virus and parasite amplification, harm Pacific salmon and our Puget Sound waters.
 
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Edelweiss said:
I wished I would have saved the newspaper article from Wa. Dept of Fisheries. Can't find it now, but basically it answered some of these questions. I found another that paraphrased their comments:

In the 1980's WDFW and BC fisheries attempted numerous times to introduce wild Atlantic Salmon (Salmo) into some of the rivers in BC and Washington. But none of the attempts to establish an Atlantic Salmon population succeeded as the smolts never returned after they were release. (Article didn't say why?)

The WDFW said Atlantic salmon is a “favored species” to farm in cold marine waters because it grows quickly and consistently, is resistant to disease, and is something people like to eat. Farmed Atlantic salmon are more docile, less aggressive and more resistant to disease than wild Pacific salmon. Atlantic salmon also have been bred to more “efficiently turn feed into flesh,”

Atlantic salmon are actually more closely related to brown trout than Pacific salmon. That’s why they don’t breed with Pacific salmon — even when researchers have tried to force it in the lab, Rush said.

According to NOAA, escaped farmed salmon that carry diseases have a relatively low risk of spreading them to wild fish. Mainly because those pathogens are already present in the water, escapees likely won’t be a threat to a healthy wild populations. Farmed fish are domesticated to eat pelleted feed and would be unable to compete in the wild. They disappear quickly in the wild, most often eaten by predators.

Opponents say their greatest concerns are that the permanently moored fish pens may bring with them area pollution, virus and parasite amplification, harm Pacific salmon and our Puget Sound waters.
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Just speaking for myself, but I would rather eat shredded cardboard than Atlantic salmon. The cardboard tastes better.
 
Delfin said:
Just speaking for myself, but I would rather eat shredded cardboard than Atlantic salmon. The cardboard tastes better.
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I'm with you. I don't even like eating chicken anymore, it's pumped full of growth hormone and antibiotics, so they can harvest it in a few months! That's just not right :eek:
 
People do not realize just how big a deal the release of these salmon into non native waters is.

A non native fish does not have the natural predators in place to keep its popuation in check like a native species does. Nature has a great way of making sure one species does not dominate an ecosystem, and introducing a non native species like these atlantic salmon side steps that process and can devistate the native species.

That is one of the reasons why farming fish is illegal in Alaska. We have some of the largest salmon runs in the world. Allot of people from commercial, to charters, to hotels, to gosh lots of people depend on our salmon for their livelyhood.

Introducing these non native fish puts all that at risk.

Here is a specific example of a non native species decimating a native fish population.

I live on a lake in the Matanuska Susitna Valley of Alaska. Rainbow trout are native to my lake. When I moved here 20+ years ago you could go the inflow streams and see the 24" plus rainbow trout spawning in the sprng. They were the native dominant species of fish.

Some years ago someone introduced non native Northern Pike to a watershed that happens to connect to our lake. Nobody knows if it was intentional or by accident but it happened.

Now, the native rainbow trout are all but gone, replaced by Northern Pike. What my lake, my home, was is no more, never to return.

So I agree that whomever allowed or caused these Atlantic Salmon to be released into the waters of Washington State should be charged, and go to prison for what they have done. I know it was an accident, but I see it as negligent. We have a responsibility to protect our waters, and the native fish that reside there, and there is no excuse for failure to do that.

We will not know for many years the result of this indoctrination of the Atlantic Salmon to to the waters of Washington state. Maybe decades. I just hope and pray that all the introduced salmon die before they are able to reproduce, because once they do, there is no turning back.
 
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Edelweiss said:
I wished I would have saved the newspaper article from Wa. Dept of Fisheries. Can't find it now, but basically it answered some of these questions. I found another that paraphrased their comments:

In the 1980's WDFW and BC fisheries attempted numerous times to introduce wild Atlantic Salmon (Salmo) into some of the rivers in BC and Washington. But none of the attempts to establish an Atlantic Salmon population succeeded as the smolts never returned after they were release. (Article didn't say why?)

The WDFW said Atlantic salmon is a “favored species” to farm in cold marine waters because it grows quickly and consistently, is resistant to disease, and is something people like to eat. Farmed Atlantic salmon are more docile, less aggressive and more resistant to disease than wild Pacific salmon. Atlantic salmon also have been bred to more “efficiently turn feed into flesh,”

Atlantic salmon are actually more closely related to brown trout than Pacific salmon. That’s why they don’t breed with Pacific salmon — even when researchers have tried to force it in the lab, Rush said.
ps. (This is why the UK is concerned about the farmed fish, as they're the same genetic species as European Atlantic Salmon and could mess up their wild fish genetic pool.)

According to NOAA, escaped farmed salmon that carry diseases have a relatively low risk of spreading them to wild fish. Mainly because those pathogens are already present in the water, escapees likely won’t be a threat to a healthy wild populations. Farmed fish are domesticated to eat pelleted feed and would be unable to compete in the wild. They disappear quickly in the wild, most often eaten by predators.

Opponents say their greatest concerns are that the permanently moored fish pens may bring with them area pollution, virus and parasite amplification, harm Pacific salmon and our Puget Sound waters.
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That pretty well addresses what my concerns would be. My biggest concern is the last one. Any concentrated biomass can create issues due to high levels of waste and depletion of O2.
 
dhays said:
That pretty well addresses what my concerns would be. My biggest concern is the last one. Any concentrated biomass can create issues due to high levels of waste and depletion of O2.
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Problem is, the source for that information is someone remembering what they read who knows how long ago, and paraphrased (cherry-picked) by someone else...and the article was written by the party responsible for allowing fish farms in Washington State in the first place.

Hardly a balanced view...
 
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MurrayM said:
Problem is, the source for that information is someone remembering what they read who knows how long ago, and the article was written by the party

responsible for allowing fish farms in Washington State in the first place.
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Oh, I'm aware of that. Not saying I necessarily believe it all but only that it addressed the concerns I had.
 
I was under the impression that farm raised fish were sterile so that if they escaped they could not reproduce. Is that not the case? There is still the impact of whatever salmon feed on will now take a huge hit, and there will not be enough natural food to feed the existing Pacific Salmon population.
 
Benthic2 said:
I was under the impression that farm raised fish were sterile so that if they escaped they could not reproduce. Is that not the case? There is still the impact of whatever salmon feed on will now take a huge hit, and there will not be enough natural food to feed the existing Pacific Salmon population.
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My guess is that it will be more of a boon to the seals and sea lions than than a loss of bait fish that the native salmon would eat.
 
Tasmania, the island state south of the eastern mainland, has large salmon farming facilities. Their main problem is inquisitive hungry seals, though there has been recent reports that the bay is essentially dead due to excessive fish poo, etc. Doesn`t seem to worry the seals.
Years ago I caught an Atlantic salmon in inland waters here, possibly Wyangla dam. Fisheries Authorities release farmed fingerlings into inland waterways,multiple varieties it seems, trout are common. Most of our inland waterways, originally the preserve of the Murray cod, have been ruined by European Carp(best use ground up and used for agricultural fertilizer), which dig for food, muddying the waters.
Wait and see how the escape turns out. A combination of keen fishermen and hungry seals might work.
 
dhays said:
My guess is that it will be more of a boon to the seals and sea lions than than a loss of bait fish that the native salmon would eat.
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Or the seals, seavlions and bearscmay become obese.;)

While I dislike upsetting any ecosystem....

I am interested in the actual facts of what will be the impacts, for how long, is the trend to more permanance or a steady decline.

My guess is at the opposite end of the spectrum from a radioactive release or the issues from the farm itself. Maybe the release of the fish is actually less harmful than the farm at capacity.
 
psneeld said:
While I dislike upsetting any ecosystem....
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As you probably know, the Alewife fish invaded the Great Lakes via the Saint Lawrence Seaway back in the 50's. There were huge berms of dead fish along the shores by the 60's. Then the DNR organizations in the various States introduced Salmon....King, Coho, Chinook to eat the alewives. Worked reasonably well until recent years when the Salmon began to overwhelm the Alewife population. Now salmon numbers are declining, supposedly due to lack of food supply. But the fact is fishermen are crushing the population. Every weekend during the spawning season fishing tournaments are held in towns near rivers where the salmon spawn. Hundreds of boats gather offshore and troll with multiple outriggers in every boat....the first wave of human attack. The second assault comes all along the river where anglers first hook, then snag the fish on their journey up river. If the fish make it past the typical cascade system up river, there are more fishermen to kill them above the weir. Of course by now the fish are near their spawning area and are half dead, but the intrepid anglers murder them anyway.


The following year the DNR experts are alarmed that the population is still declining, so they plant hundreds of thousands of fry in the Spring. And on and on it goes.


The next man made disaster is the Asian Carp, which have now been reported beyond the electrified locks in the Chicago sewage canal. Past efforts by conservationists to close those locks were foiled by Chicago, the Obama Administration, and cruiser groups like AGLCA.
 
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