Cardude in Harvey bullseye

Betsy Lee is at Cove Harbor Marina (green dot in pic). Our floating dock can take 15' surge, but who knows what the winds have done - they have been getting pounded for hours.

Initial pictures of Rockport are showing massive amounts of damage. Hoping to hear that all who stayed are safe and okay. May be several days before recovery can start if Harvey stalls out as forecasted.

Baker said:

My rhetorical question to you is...Have you ever seen a major hurricane cause extensive damage that is caused by RAIN???? I have not or I sure cannot think of one.

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Hurricane Hazel, a Cat 4 storm that bisected eastern North America from south to north in 1954, was extra tropical when it stalled near Toronto, but still had hurricane-force winds of 77 mph. The rain (on top of previous heavy rain) caused major flooding that destroyed buildings, bridges and crops, killing 81 people in Canada alone.

On a personal note, my parents owned a house in the country near Brantford, Ontario that previously belonged to the owners of the local grist mill, just down the hill. Hazel's rains undercut the dam and permanently altered the creek that fed the mill, causing it to close. (Hardly a major impact, but a testament to Hazel's severity.) Today, the mill is a nature center.

Still not much information on the damage in Rockport, but as far as Cardude it's still about 4 hours away from him and more rain than anything now. Just doesn't take much to flood in South Texas and this is definitely a lot.

This morning is the first time I have had the internet connection to actually see what the wind forecasts have been. I am amazed at how long that storm has, and will be sitting over that area of Texas.

I haven't heard what the rainfall amounts have ended up being. Any ideas?

I also wish y'all and your kin are able to stay safe with no damage.

Ski in NC said:

Does not look like the surge was that bad. NOAA tide stations in the Corpus areas show peak of about 6-7' max at landfall.

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Yeah but man, Port O'Connor and Rockport had to get blasted!!! There is a little town on San Antonio Bay called Seadrift. The shape of SA Bay is narrow running south to north and constricting as it goes north. The water will have nowhere to go but up. I am willing to bet Seadrift does not exist today.

Anyone hear from Cardude?

Funny thing is I met Cardude on Matagorda beach about 10 years ago....Surfing!!!!

Heard from Cardude about 10 AM. Still OK but loosing vents off the roof, now holed. Trees down and clogging drains, etc. . A short video clip showed trees really stressed. He may attempt repairs in approaching eye center. I bet he's glad to have left his boat parked at FF's in FL!

KneeDeep, sure hope the best for you.

Hey, Baker - your points well taken. Didn't mean to turn this into a "best anchor" debate.

More important, hope y'all are faring well or as well as you can. Interesting how rapidly your priorities can recalibrate in the course of a storm.

My parochial interest in Harvey's rain potential relates to my kids/gkids in Houston.

sbu22 said:

Hey, Baker - your points well taken. Didn't mean to turn this into a "best anchor" debate.

More important, hope y'all are faring well or as well as you can. Interesting how rapidly your priorities can recalibrate in the course of a storm.

My parochial interest in Harvey's rain potential relates to my kids/gkids in Houston.

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No worries at all. ANd I didn't mean to get all defensive. I got in from a red eye yesterday morning and really didn't get to sleep due to storm prep so I guess I was lacking in tact....

Houston is getting it this morning. I have not turned on the TV but as you probably know, that outer band is training right over the top of us.

I hope your kids and gkids are ok!!! We are doing ok down here in League City!!

Baker if it really gets bad I'll get you a bottle of Carmelita's to wash away all your problems. Hope all is well.

Bigsfish said:

Baker if it really gets bad I'll get you a bottle of Carmelita's to wash away all your problems. Hope all is well.

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We are doing fine over here and should continue to do so!!! Thanks! The people down the coast were not so lucky. Rockport and Port Aransas pretty much got destroyed. I would imagine the same for Port O'Connor.

Now at 2 mph but still 25 miles west of Victoria.

Baker...

Does this now qualify as a powerful hurricane with a tremendous amount of rain? And sitting and meandering?

Tornado early this morning hit Katy.

BandB said:

Now at 2 mph but still 25 miles west of Victoria.

Baker...

Does this now qualify as a powerful hurricane with a tremendous amount of rain? And sitting and meandering?

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I do believe so....although we do not know the rainfall amounts.

Wifey B: If I hear one more person say "We're on top of it and we're going to help" and "We're on the job" and "They have our full support" I'm just going to scream. The people there aren't going to need words and support. They're going to need action. By now you should be saying something like "We have 40 trucks or 5 airplanes loaded up with supplies and on their way to the area as soon as they're allowed to go along with 5000 members of the national guard. I mean you do have to wait to enter some areas but you don't have to wait to get ready and on your way and just hearing all the words does nothing for me. I'm hoping that there's much more going on and the politicians on television and other media just don't know what is being done. We say we've learned. I sure hope so.

BandB said:

Wifey B: If I hear one more person say "We're on top of it and we're going to help" and "We're on the job" and "They have our full support" I'm just going to scream. The people there aren't going to need words and support. They're going to need action. By now you should be saying something like "We have 40 trucks or 5 airplanes loaded up with supplies and on their way to the area as soon as they're allowed to go along with 5000 members of the national guard. I mean you do have to wait to enter some areas but you don't have to wait to get ready and on your way and just hearing all the words does nothing for me. I'm hoping that there's much more going on and the politicians on television and other media just don't know what is being done. We say we've learned. I sure hope so.

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Begin Rant....

Those aren't just words, they are "on the job". My former FEMA Urban Search & Rescue team from Ohio has been on the road for 36 hours and should be on the scene shortly along with several other teams. Local assets need to asses the areas first and determine where help is needed the most then Federal teams move in at their request. Texas has a Federal team of their own which, I'm sure, is being used as a state asset along with their many swift water teams. After rescue efforts and once areas are deemed safe the folks with the blankets and water will move in to help begin recovery.

Every natural disaster I have deployed to (Katrina, Rita, Ike & Sandy) we have been pre-staged within a few hours drive from expected landfall and were on the scene as soon as local assets determined where we were needed most. NYC on 9/11 was the only event we had to play catch-up on and were still there early on the 12th. Other, closer teams were there that afternoon.

Sorry, but I really get tired of people that don't know the facts wondering where all the government help is. People still believe that New Orleans was left with no help for days when I know that isn't true. Maybe it took a few days to get a bottle of water and longer for a check but rescue teams were there that morning. I'm sure they are going to work in Texas now too.

Rant Off.

Spike said:

Begin Rant....

Those aren't just words, they are "on the job". My former FEMA Urban Search & Rescue team from Ohio has been on the road for 36 hours and should be on the scene shortly along with several other teams. Local assets need to asses the areas first and determine where help is needed the most then Federal teams move in at their request. Texas has a Federal team of their own which, I'm sure, is being used as a state asset along with their many swift water teams. After rescue efforts and once areas are deemed safe the folks with the blankets and water will move in to help begin recovery.

Every natural disaster I have deployed to (Katrina, Rita, Ike & Sandy) we have been pre-staged within a few hours drive from expected landfall and were on the scene as soon as local assets determined where we were needed most. NYC on 9/11 was the only event we had to play catch-up on and were still there early on the 12th. Other, closer teams were there that afternoon.

Sorry, but I really get tired of people that don't know the facts wondering where all the government help is. People still believe that New Orleans was left with no help for days when I know that isn't true. Maybe it took a few days to get a bottle of water and longer for a check but rescue teams were there that morning. I'm sure they are going to work in Texas now too.

Rant Off.

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Wifey B: That's great to hear. Why don't the people talking say that? I've heard all the politicians, government officials speak and not one has said anything about that. I have no problem with your rant. It would be great for those in places like Corpus Christi and Rockport to hear. It would also be great to hear from the local officials that they've been in touch with FEMA and what they've been told. I know sometimes the local officials don't express the needs as they should.

My rant was not about what is or isn't being done. It was about what everyone is saying. Without giving more information, it sounds like very empty words. People don't come in trusting the response so they need to know it's already being deployed. I've been reading and listening and not one person has been speaking about that.

Texas governor has spoken several times and not once mentioned his teams. I also know in the past there have been cases on National Guard help much too late because a governor never asked for them and that's how they get sent.

So, I am all for you continuing the rant, but target it a bit toward those who are not disclosing the information. It makes FEMA look bad because those in need of help don't know.

I hope that puts you and me now ranting somewhat on the same thing. Notice in my earlier post I said "I'm hoping that there's much more going on and the politicians on television and other media just don't know what is being done." Well, they need to get informed so they can inform the public. Each day of uncertainty is very long for those in crisis. I know there's a limit right now to what can be done, but there isn't a limit to what can be shared to reassure people. There have been drownings in South Texas from other storms.

Meanwhile, I'm in TN where it's 83 and sunny. I almost feel guilty having such a beautiful day when it's so rotten for many.

Wifey B: I did find this regarding FEMA's advance efforts.


https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/24/fem...as-ahead-of-harvey-nbc-dallas-fort-worth.html

Wish there was more news of that and updating it.

An update on Rockport. Earlier the question was whether we're seeing it all or just the worst. A newsman was flying over the area and indicated it was very widespread but spotty in nature and probably caused by the hurricane downforce hitting some and not others. In watching, you could see destruction all around town but also could see some buildings that were not destroyed in many areas.

BandB said:

Meanwhile, I'm in TN where it's 83 and sunny. I almost feel guilty having such a beautiful day when it's so rotten for many.

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Hmmm.... OT, but were you at the Gaylord in Nashville over this last weekend?

If so, we may have crossed paths...



Spike's rant sounds right to me; when we gave support to Haiti from Miami, forces were ramped up well in advance, food/medical/supply and RO units were steaming toward the island early, etc. I assume FEMA is equally well organized within their jurisdiction...

-Chris

ranger42c said:

Hmmm.... OT, but were you at the Gaylord in Nashville over this last weekend?

If so, we may have crossed paths...



-Chris

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Wifey B: No, last weekend we were driving to Pickwick and then provisioning.

BandB said:

Wifey B: That's great to hear. Why don't the people talking say that? I've heard all the politicians, government officials speak and not one has said anything about that.

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Not to turn this political, but I think that politicians often have a set of additional priorities. If you are a Governor you have to face a bunch of angry folks who don't like bad things happening to them. Of course they don't accept any responsibility themselves and expect other folks to solve their problems for them. A Governor can't really say tell them that, instead the tendency is (if they want to stay popular and get elected again) to blame someone else.

After Katrina there were all kinds of folks blaming FEMA for an inadequate response, folks blamed President Bush (particularly democrats). When President Obama was in office, republican liked to blame him for every perceived failure on the part of FEMA.

So, who do you hear on television or read quoted in the paper? You hear elected officials. The folks who are actually doing the work, are too busy doing the work to spend time talking about doing the work.

And for gosh sakes, I hope we don't hear complaints about President Trump not going to Texas to review the damage. The last thing Texas needs is for a President to show up for pictures and take resources away from getting things done.

dhays said:

Not to turn this political, but I think that politicians often have a set of additional priorities. If you are a Governor you have to face a bunch of angry folks who don't like bad things happening to them. Of course they don't accept any responsibility themselves and expect other folks to solve their problems for them. A Governor can't really say tell them that, instead the tendency is (if they want to stay popular and get elected again) to blame someone else.

After Katrina there were all kinds of folks blaming FEMA for an inadequate response, folks blamed President Bush (particularly democrats). When President Obama was in office, republican liked to blame him for every perceived failure on the part of FEMA.

So, who do you hear on television or read quoted in the paper? You hear elected officials. The folks who are actually doing the work, are too busy doing the work to spend time talking about doing the work.

And for gosh sakes, I hope we don't hear complaints about President Trump not going to Texas to review the damage. The last thing Texas needs is for a President to show up for pictures and take resources away from getting things done.

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Wifey B: I'm just tired of the platitudes. Let someone at a lower level speak who actually knows what is going on. I'm sure after this, like every storm, we'll hear complaints about the President. We'll hear complaints about FEMA. We'll hear complaints about the insurers. Maybe if they did a bit better PR job it would reduce that and by PR I don't mean nebulous statements. I mean sharing what is already underway and what to expect. Sometimes it's best to not share what's going on behind the scenes. I don't think this is one of those time. The more you share, the sooner, the smoother it will go.

dhays said:

Not to turn this political, but I think that politicians often have a set of additional priorities. If you are a Governor you have to face a bunch of angry folks who don't like bad things happening to them. Of course they don't accept any responsibility themselves and expect other folks to solve their problems for them. A Governor can't really say tell them that, instead the tendency is (if they want to stay popular and get elected again) to blame someone else.

After Katrina there were all kinds of folks blaming FEMA for an inadequate response, folks blamed President Bush (particularly democrats). When President Obama was in office, republican liked to blame him for every perceived failure on the part of FEMA.

So, who do you hear on television or read quoted in the paper? You hear elected officials. The folks who are actually doing the work, are too busy doing the work to spend time talking about doing the work.

And for gosh sakes, I hope we don't hear complaints about President Trump not going to Texas to review the damage. The last thing Texas needs is for a President to show up for pictures and take resources away from getting things done.

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There was a guy on here(Carey) that worked on a FEMA response team. He said Katrina was quite a nightmare with people yelling and complaining and trying to get help.

Armed with those memories, they were afraid of what they might find when showing up in Galveston after Ike. He said they showed up and no one hardly even approached them. All they could hear was chainsaws and generators. IOW, people taking care of themselves and their neighbors. It is also the reason Ike did not get sensational national coverage like Sandy and Katrina...the "demographic" was different and not as "newsworthy"......

Haven't seen pictures yet (which is probably a good thing) but got a call that our floating marina fared much better than the drystack, except we no longer have a covered slip. Report is that boat is floating, not listing and no alarms going off. At this point I'll take it.

Hopefully Harvey will stay a little farther north than forecasted and let the recovery crews get to work.

BandB said:

Wifey B: No, last weekend we were driving to Pickwick and then provisioning.

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Ah. Maybe the Tennessee River is more attractive than the Cumberland. We only took the "3 hour tour" (paddlewheel showboat) but the river itself didn't have much going on except for occasional wildlife. I was susprrised the Nashville "waterfront" isn't built up like it is in Memphis...

BandB said:

Wifey B: I'm just tired of the platitudes. Let someone at a lower level speak who actually knows what is going on.

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Yeah, generalities not so informative, but the people who know the details are generally busy managing the details. Imagine serious gantt charts, checklists, progress reporting back up the chain, lots of people and equipment actually in motion (ideally as close as is safe), etc.

-Chris

Spike - I'll accept that your Urban SAR team was on the job promptly. But my firsthand and on the ground experience with FEMA and USACE during Katrina/Rita was that they were just another massive obstruction that needed to be cleared to get everything from SAR to supplies to recovery accomplished. WalMart's ER crews and LANG did more in the first weeks than all the Fed efforts combined. FEMA is all about process and nothing about results. Mostly unqualified contract Beltway bandit subcontractors primarily interested in not breaking their rice bowl.

sbu22 said:

Spike - I'll accept that your Urban SAR team was on the job promptly. But my firsthand and on the ground experience with FEMA and USACE during Katrina/Rita was that they were just another massive obstruction that needed to be cleared to get everything from SAR to supplies to recovery accomplished. WalMart's ER crews and LANG did more in the first weeks than all the Fed efforts combined. FEMA is all about process and nothing about results. Mostly unqualified contract Beltway bandit subcontractors primarily interested in not breaking their rice bowl.

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Thanks (I think), I obviously get a bit defensive when folks say I wasn't doing my job. I admit that FEMA is huge and I only knew about my small piece of the pie. It got even worse when we became part of DHS. Most people don't understand that we couldn't do anything until the state in need asks for assistance. During Sandy we sat at McGuire AFB in NJ for 24 hours before the governor decided they needed help.

Sorry for the rant and thread creep. This really should be about our TF folks effected in Texas. Hope all is well when the dust settles for all of you.

Cardude, Texas Lady, Baker, Dimer2, ktdtx and KneeDeep - how are you and your families and boats holding up this afternoon?

Looking at the wind maps, it appears that the Galveston area has been slammed with wind-driven storm surge off the Gulf. I am particularly concerned about Texas Lady.

BandB said:

Now at 2 mph but still 25 miles west of Victoria.

Baker...

Does this now qualify as a powerful hurricane with a tremendous amount of rain? And sitting and meandering?

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Not sure we can call this a done deal....but here are your rainfall totals in the Houston area in the last 24 hours. Not torrential by any stretch...So we shall see...

https://www.harriscountyfws.org/

Baker said:

Not sure we can call this a done deal....but here are your rainfall totals in the Houston area in the last 24 hours. Not torrential by any stretch...So we shall see...

https://www.harriscountyfws.org/

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The forecast for Galveston is 20" more with 8" tomorrow and more each day. Houston is 2.75 tonight, 6 tomorrow, 5 on Monday, 3.75 on Tuesday, 2.3 on Wednesday, 2.1 on Thursday. The Buffalo is forecast to go higher than it has ever gone, higher than Allison. I hope they're completely wrong. I know it looks good in Houston at the moment.