Big Cleats

Hi All,

Now don't laugh too hard, but this "sailor" has had sailboats up to 32' that had cleat sizes that would accommodate any commercial 1/2" dock line, where you put the eye through the cleat bottom, then around each ear.

The new boat has these monster cleats that no lock line eye can spread wide enough to go over both ears. Is it OK to just loop the eye around 1 ear? Looks like it could pop off.

Recommendations?

I routinely loop only half of the cleat. Never had a problem. Consider reversing direction so the loop has to make a change of direction inside the cleat, it will better resist coming out that way.

Monster cleats are handy in storms as you can tie multiple lines on without gagging the cleat. If you get into storm conditions, the other lines on the cleat will keep the half-looper from moving.

Bowlines to make adjustable loops work well. But not at the Yacht Club.

Or learn to splice lines and make eyes whatever size you want.

As to one ear attach it should work well if the line attached is under constant tension. But questionable otherwise.

Only problem w big cleats is the cost and weight. Put all the cleats in a stout sack and lift it.

Ski in NC said:

I routinely loop only half of the cleat. Never had a problem. Consider reversing direction so the loop has to make a change of direction inside the cleat, it will better resist coming out that way.

Monster cleats are handy in storms as you can tie multiple lines on without gagging the cleat. If you get into storm conditions, the other lines on the cleat will keep the half-looper from moving.

Click to expand...

+1

Ski in NC said:

I routinely loop only half of the cleat. Never had a problem. Consider reversing direction so the loop has to make a change of direction inside the cleat, it will better resist coming out that way.

Click to expand...

Ski! Thanks for that idea! I have a few lines whose eyes are a bit too small to go around both horns of my hawse holes easily. I will just loop around one. Your idea is just too dang simple and makes it much more secure. I've yet to have had a problem, but it is something that I think about.

Another simple example of why TF has been so valuable for me.

Ski in NC said:

I routinely loop only half of the cleat. Never had a problem. Consider reversing direction so the loop has to make a change of direction inside the cleat, it will better resist coming out that way.

Monster cleats are handy in storms as you can tie multiple lines on without gagging the cleat. If you get into storm conditions, the other lines on the cleat will keep the half-looper from moving.

Click to expand...

+2

Our boat has large cleats and I've noticed that some premade dock lines have larger loops than others (some fit, some don't).

Why focus on looping the eye - go ahead and "cleat" the line down properly.

My traveling dock lines have a three foot loop on one end and no loop on the other. That way if someone on the dock is helping me, I just hand them they loop and they can drop it over a cleat or piling and I can adjust the length on the boat end.

My home dock cleats have custom spliced loops on each end. They stay attached to the dock and when I return home I just drop the loop over the cleat on the boat. No need to feed it through the cleat.

I liked having my lines made up with larger loops at one end, and putting those on the dock cleats. Having the bitter end on board makes it easier to adjust.. no getting off the boat. Almost all professionally run boats, not to mention ships, do it that way as well.
Also when it comes time to go, usually much faster to pop off, right from the boat the last remaining spring as it slacks. I also had some lines with really big loops to throw over pilings, same idea.

HopCar said:

My traveling dock lines have a three foot loop on one end and no loop on the other. That way if someone on the dock is helping me, I just hand them they loop and they can drop it over a cleat or piling and I can adjust the length on the boat end.

My home dock cleats have custom spliced loops on each end. They stay attached to the dock and when I return home I just drop the loop over the cleat on the boat. No need to feed it through the cleat.

Click to expand...

Menzies: said:

Why focus on looping the eye - go ahead and "cleat" the line down properly.


Exactly!

Click to expand...

Most of tbe time now, I prefer to leave the loop on the boat cleat and run the line around the dock cleat or piling and bring it back to the boat.

Easy to adjust and easy to cast off to leave in the morning. No need to get off the boat and less of a chance of a loop catching on something.

You guys are far too focused on speed.

Take it easy, take your time to tie up and un-tie.

Life is not a race to be the most efficient.

Relax.

An alternative to a spliced loop end is the bowline knot, which can be any size you want to make it. Easy to tie, relatively easy to undo, and a good safe knot in my experience.

BruceK said:

An alternative to a spliced loop end is the bowline knot, which can be any size you want to make it. Easy to tie, relatively easy to undo, and a good safe knot in my experience.

Click to expand...

It is a great knot - especially on the bow eye of the dink for towing.

But the knot can be a bit "clunky" around a cleat depending on rope size.

Its not about speed, its convenience and safety....

Working on the water taught me that.

Not sure why one would use a bowline on a cleat anyhow.

psneeld said:

Its not about speed, its conveniene and safety....

Working on the water taught me that.

Click to expand...

Talk to me about safety with using a loop versus cleating? Not sure I get that?

Getting on and off the boat aftet the stairs are stowed, being able to use them as ready made springs retrievable from the vessel, allows you politely decline help from dangerous dock helpers,doubles up your lines every tie up for no more effort or lines, etc, etc...

Its the way I do it, so it is safety and convenience for me, not necessarily everyone....but it isnt for speed as you suggested.

I have a relatively large (for my boat), single cross Samson Post at the bow. I often joke that a crane could probably lift my boat by it!

when you pass the loop through the base, take a half or full wrap around the base, then loop the horn of the cleat.

Bowlines are great knots, but have 25-30% loss of rope strength. A good eye splice will have only 10-15% loss of rope strength. Best to avoid bowlines except for temporary mooring!

In tying to cleats or bollards be aware that tight bends cause loss of rope strength. There is a magic number of 4" diameter bend for 5/8" rope where no loss of strength occurs. This is why you will see ferries tying to double bitt bollards such as the pic below, using multiple overlapping figure 8 loops, the last one an underhand loop

When going to a cleat with a loop and don't plan the classic though the middle and over both horns, you can do just one horn or....dont even go through the middle, just go to the far side of the cleat around the far end, then put the loop over the opposite horn (the one back in the direction of the line loading). This is great if you ever need to flip off thd line while still onboard.

When tying to cleats or bollards, the commercial guys snd military guys I have worked with never finish with a half hitch. A sufficient number of turns and the line wont budge if the line is properly sized for the cleat or bollard. Or they use a kighterman's/tugboat hitch if the line is too small for the bollards.