Send me your credit card and driver's license

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angus99

angus99

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Feb 19, 2012
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Stella Maris
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Defever 44
I bought an AIS antenna from an online marine warehouse yesterday. This morning, I received the following email.


"Order #3507 has been flagged as high risk for fraud. I am unable to process this order until I have verified the credit card used in this transaction. Please send me a copy of the front of the credit card with the name matching that on the order and a copy of your drivers license with the address matching the billing address on the order and attached to the credit card. Until I receive this information from you I am unable to process your transaction. If you prefer I can send you information to pay via wire transfer. Please let me know how you would like to proceed. Thank you for your cooperation and understanding that this is our policy in order to protect all our customers."


At first I thought they'd been hacked, so I called the number listed on their website. The guy I talked to assured me the request was from his company and couldn't understand why I objected to emailing my credit card and driver's license to him. I told him my credit card wasn't even used for the purchase . . . I used the PayPal link on their site. He said I wouldn't believe the amount of PayPal fraud that goes on, to which I replied "then why do you offer it as an option?" He had no answer.

I've bought many thousands of dollars worth of boating gear on line using PayPal and have never had an issue like this. Needless to say, I immediately cancelled the purchase and will never do business with them again. Anyone else have an experience like this?
 
angus99 said:
I bought an AIS antenna from an online marine warehouse yesterday. This morning, I received the following email.


"Order #3507 has been flagged as high risk for fraud. I am unable to process this order until I have verified the credit card used in this transaction. Please send me a copy of the front of the credit card with the name matching that on the order and a copy of your drivers license with the address matching the billing address on the order and attached to the credit card. Until I receive this information from you I am unable to process your transaction. If you prefer I can send you information to pay via wire transfer. Please let me know how you would like to proceed. Thank you for your cooperation and understanding that this is our policy in order to protect all our customers."


At first I thought they'd been hacked, so I called the number listed on their website. The guy I talked to assured me the request was from his company and couldn't understand why I objected to emailing my credit card and driver's license to him. I told him my credit card wasn't even used for the purchase . . . I used the PayPal link on their site. He said I wouldn't believe the amount of PayPal fraud that goes on, to which I replied "then why do you offer it as an option?" He had no answer.

I've bought many thousands of dollars worth of boating gear on line using PayPal and have never had an issue like this. Needless to say, I immediately cancelled the purchase and will never do business with them again. Anyone else have an experience like this?
Click to expand...

I'm a paypal merchant and do a lot of business using Paypal

If you are a paypal member, and are verified, which most people that have ever
Used paypal are, then the merchant is safe. The only time paypal flags a transaction is if something fishy is going on with the buyer, then paypal will say "do not ship" on the transaction while they figure it out.

This sounds to me like a small business that is overly parinoid.
The beauty of paypal is that the merchant never sees your credit card information. Do Not ever send a paypal merchant your CC information.
 
My thoughts exactly, ksanders. To even ask someone to send images of their CC and DL via email ranks as one of the most clueless things I've ever seen online.
 
I won't even send complete credit card information to a legitimate company.
I always break up the information into 2-3 different emails. Sometimes I even send the segment using different email addresses. Unless of course they're set up to receive it securely.

As to PayPal, if I use that, there's no way in hell he's getting my CC information, defeats the purpose of PayPal.
 
Last edited:
i would go one step further and report them to Paypal. I would bet this violates Paypals rules. I'm wondering if there is an issue between Paypal and the Merchant. Perhaps the Merchant's lost their account or trying to process outside of Paypal.

I'm with mbevins on legit merchants. In fact, I greatly prefer ordering online vs giving the information on the phone. When we take a phone order, we prefer to then email them a link to allow them to make the payment. Our store employees normally never hold a credit card, never have the information from one. We do see the last four digits. If the customer insists on giving them the information on the phone, they have to fill out an internal exception report. It basically says that they received the information and entered it and never wrote it down. It goes as a manual processing and does get extra review.
 
Wow, that's pretty strong to request that, and there's no way I'd do that. And, I'd find another vendor. Good for you, angus99, that sounds crazy.

I don't use PayPal and hate them. They are a PITA and laden with fraud and lawsuits and I wan't no part of it. Just google PayPal lawsuits... you'll have more than you can read in a life time. Don't get me started about them.

My profile is to use a CC that has just enough credit on it to do my normal purchases, and if someone steals it and I get stuck, it will be minimal. That's never happened.

And, yes, only use companies that I can verify as legit.

Works for me.....
 
Yeah, something doesn't smell right. I'll report them.
 
They just didn't want to pay PP's commission.

But amazing enough people would be stupid enough to agree to their request.
 
Here is the scam I just learned of it last week
A company sets up a online site and it is a company that pretends to be a large company based in you country with a showroom the office. Or they use another company name under false pretences
It needs paypal or for you to arrange payment to paypal

say $2 k

You pay for it and order They go to some online seller in china pay $1k and it ships from china to you . Pocketing the difference

If breaks you get no customer service you ship it back to their warehouse for return but the address is something else then it gets shipped back to you collect .
pretty sweet scam
 
Sea Q said:
Here is the scam I just learned of it last week
A company sets up a online site and it is a company that pretends to be a large company based in you country with a showroom the office. Or they use another company name under false pretences
It needs paypal or for you to arrange payment to paypal

say $2 k

You pay for it and order They go to some online seller in china pay $1k and it ships from china to you . Pocketing the difference

If breaks you get no customer service you ship it back to their warehouse for return but the address is something else then it gets shipped back to you collect .
pretty sweet scam
Click to expand...

As a business practice, that is known as drop-shipping. Nothing new and not always bad. However, it is often used as you just described and the company provides no support.

The issue is you can't tell sometimes who you're really dealing with.

Now, legitimate drop shipping is as follows. I'll give two examples:

1. Companies that have been around forever and do drop shipping. You can set up with them as a seller and you take the orders and then order from them for delivery to your customer. You purchase at less than their retail price. You can process returns and have them shipped to you or the distributor.

2. There are companies that do stock a lot of product but sometimes use other companies for additional products. Even Wal-mart and Sears do this. So, that other product is shipped from a third party. Again, you pay the normal price. They get a discount.

Now, a couple of hints of ways to check legitimacy. Certainly Google and BBB are starts. Also, Map their street address and see what is there. If they have no street address, that's a reason for question.

There are legitimate websites that are nothing but affiliate sites, earn a commission from the company. However, there are websites that require investigation and shouldn't be trusted.

One place you see this is Canadian Pharmacies. I'm not arguing whether you should or shouldn't use them. However, it's easy enough to pull up a map, get a street view of their brick and mortar pharmacy. Also, to check their licensing. Last, the legitimate ones tell you where each drug is coming from so if some do ship from India, you're told in advance. Sometimes you even get a choice.

Caveat Emptor.
 
Seevee said:
I don't use PayPal and hate them. They are a PITA and laden with fraud and lawsuits and I wan't no part of it. Just google PayPal lawsuits... you'll have more than you can read in a life time.
Click to expand...
I love PayPal and use it often...to the tune of 2-3 times a week. I am set up with their "One Click" shopping where I click once on that link to complete the transaction.

They already have my shipping info and my bank checking account number. They automatically deduct the amount from my checking, the order is paid for immediately and ships that same day.

As to orders coming from long distances away where shipping time is loooooong, Amazon allows you to cancel the order once you learn how long the shipping will take. One or two clicks is all it takes to canx the order and one of the reasons you can select for cancelling the order is it won't arrive in time.
 
GFC said:
I love PayPal and use it often...to the tune of 2-3 times a week. I am set up with their "One Click" shopping where I click once on that link to complete the transaction.

They already have my shipping info and my bank checking account number. They automatically deduct the amount from my checking, the order is paid for immediately and ships that same day.

As to orders coming from long distances away where shipping time is loooooong, Amazon allows you to cancel the order once you learn how long the shipping will take. One or two clicks is all it takes to canx the order and one of the reasons you can select for cancelling the order is it won't arrive in time.
Click to expand...

GFC,

Agree with Amazon, and I order most of my stuff from them. Occasionally with boat parts or specialized stuff they can't compete.

We can disagree on Pay Pal, have some friends that love them, but there's just too many issues with them and I'd not give them my bank account number, nor authorize them do deduct a dime. Their agreement is all for them.
 
We would greatly prefer not to use Paypal as merchants even though I've always used it for ebay purchases I made. For businesses that are predominantly brick and mortar it's easy not to use them. However, we've found that for businesses that are 100% web businesses, you miss some sales if you don't use it. So we do use it. It costs us internally far more time to account for it, to keep up with it, to respond to inquiries plus it's an entirely different set of rules to live with. We probably never would have used it but we acquired one company that was doing nearly 50% of their business through Paypal.
 
Yes PayPal is great for transactions from the buyer's POV.

But don't leave any significant amount in your balance with them, they seize at the drop of a hat and takes forever or never get it back.
 
BandB said:
As a business practice, that is known as drop-shipping. Nothing new and not always bad. However, it is often used as you just described and the company provides no support.

The issue is you can't tell sometimes who you're really dealing with.

Now, legitimate drop shipping is as follows. I'll give two examples:

1. Companies that have been around forever and do drop shipping. You can set up with them as a seller and you take the orders and then order from them for delivery to your customer. You purchase at less than their retail price. You can process returns and have them shipped to you or the distributor.

2. There are companies that do stock a lot of product but sometimes use other companies for additional products. Even Wal-mart and Sears do this. So, that other product is shipped from a third party. Again, you pay the normal price. They get a discount.

Now, a couple of hints of ways to check legitimacy. Certainly Google and BBB are starts. Also, Map their street address and see what is there. If they have no street address, that's a reason for question.

There are legitimate websites that are nothing but affiliate sites, earn a commission from the company. However, there are websites that require investigation and shouldn't be trusted.

One place you see this is Canadian Pharmacies. I'm not arguing whether you should or shouldn't use them. However, it's easy enough to pull up a map, get a street view of their brick and mortar pharmacy. Also, to check their licensing. Last, the legitimate ones tell you where each drug is coming from so if some do ship from India, you're told in advance. Sometimes you even get a choice.

Caveat Emptor.
Click to expand...

Great read! Thanks and I'd bet a lot more have or will thank.:thumb:
 
The credit card companies are extremely sophisticated at detecting fraud.. its not the merchant who does that. so beyond the obvious advice of "don't transmit your credit card details over email" I'd try to find out the reason behind the flagging.
 
I buy everything I can online going back to early days of online shopping. Mostly Ebay and Amazon. With Paypal the only time a transaction was held up was because I purchased from someone that had problems issuing timely refunds. It's not Paypal, it's the seller.
 
kev_rm said:
The credit card companies are extremely sophisticated at detecting fraud.. its not the merchant who does that. so beyond the obvious advice of "don't transmit your credit card details over email" I'd try to find out the reason behind the flagging.
Click to expand...

There is no reason for the flagging and I don't believe any indication of fraud was detected. (Maybe we'll find out for sure when I hear back from PayPal.) We've purchased multiple items before and since this one using PayPal without drama. If it is necessary for PayPal to flag a transaction, there is zero reason for a merchant to ask for credit card information unrelated to that transaction.
 
john61ct said:
But don't leave any significant amount in your balance with them, they seize at the drop of a hat and takes forever or never get it back.
Click to expand...
John, that has not been my experience with PP. I've had a couple of disputed purchases where the mdse didn't turn out to be exactly like advertised. I contacted Amazon and PayPal and both stopped the transactions, reversed the charges and made me whole again.
 
If any online shopping site would ask me for my credit card inprint and copy of ID my only reaction would be :trash:

L
 
angus99 said:
I bought an AIS antenna from an online marine warehouse yesterday. This morning, I received the following email.


"Order #3507 has been flagged as high risk for fraud. I am unable to process this order until I have verified the credit card used in this transaction. Please send me a copy of the front of the credit card with the name matching that on the order and a copy of your drivers license with the address matching the billing address on the order and attached to the credit card. Until I receive this information from you I am unable to process your transaction. If you prefer I can send you information to pay via wire transfer. Please let me know how you would like to proceed. Thank you for your cooperation and understanding that this is our policy in order to protect all our customers."


At first I thought they'd been hacked, so I called the number listed on their website. The guy I talked to assured me the request was from his company and couldn't understand why I objected to emailing my credit card and driver's license to him. I told him my credit card wasn't even used for the purchase . . . I used the PayPal link on their site. He said I wouldn't believe the amount of PayPal fraud that goes on, to which I replied "then why do you offer it as an option?" He had no answer.
Click to expand...
Makes no sense. Offering the option to pay by a wire service is interesting, payments that way can be irrecoverable. And PayPal was not good enough for them. Cancelling does make sense.
Real fraudsters here ask for i tunes cards. Some people fall for it. The Tax Office getting paid in i tunes cards!? It pays to stay alert.
 
GFC said:
John, that has not been my experience with PP. I've had a couple of disputed purchases where the mdse didn't turn out to be exactly like advertised. I contacted Amazon and PayPal and both stopped the transactions, reversed the charges and made me whole again.
Click to expand...
PP has arbitrarily frozen thousands of members accounts, not talking about specific transactions, just when they decided something fishy might be going on.

And I'm sure properly so in many instances, but it can take many months to even start making human contact.

I'm not saying not to use PP, just keep your balance low.
 
As a merchant that takes "click to buy" I only use paypal for my websites. The reasons are several.

1. Many people love the convience of paypal. No filling your ship to info, no entering your CC info, absolute protection for the consumer when you buy tangible material. This increases my sales.

2. Protection for the merchant. I do not hasve to deal with CC information. I am protected against fradulent purchases as long as I carefully follow their rules. My business is B to B in nature so I do not have a charge back problem, but in the rare instance of a issue I have been extremely happy with paypals resolution process.

3. Fair and reasonable fees. We do allot of business with Paypal to the tune of tens of thousands a month. They give us universal CC acceptance, EFT, etc... with one known reasonable fee.

We even advertise "accepts Paypal" on our web sites, which due to their popularity increases sales revenue.

Just last week a customer was having problems with his CC company authorizing a several thousand dollar purchase from my firm via the "normal" CC equipment we have onsite. I asked him if he had a Paypal account, and he did. We had our money in minutes, and shipped his equipment the same day. He was happy and we were happy. Win Win.

As a buyer, or customer I target merchants that accept paypal. It's fast, and easy, and the merchant never sees my CC information. Cant beat that.
 
Too much like send me $1000 and I'll send you back $1 million. Reminds me of spam offers. Let's see, in the last few hours what I got. Let's see.

Jessica wants to talk, Ananda (yes that's how it was spelled) wants to meet and Jenna will do anything I want to do. Then there's an oil man in Madagascar who is willing to show me how to get a license and make $3 a barrel on all sold under my license, selling 1 million barrels a month for earnings of $3 million a month.

Not sending them anything and not sending someone I don't know all my credit card front and back along with driver's license. The flagging is definitely not Paypal and just some charade on the merchant's part, unless it's the merchant Paypal flagged.
 
angus99 said:
My thoughts exactly, ksanders. To even ask someone to send images of their CC and DL via email ranks as one of the most clueless things I've ever seen online.
Click to expand...

To me, it sounds like an out and out scam, and it was probably not even the right business phone you rang. No reputable business would ever ask someone to provide such important and personal information. I bet if you contact the business by a different route, eg a phone number from on-line directories, they will be appalled at what happened.
 
You might want to contact your credit card company as well. I'm sure Visa/MC, etc don't want to be dealing with a business that at best, is being very irresponsible, and at worst, is outright fraudulent. That company's email in box is an Identity Theif's wet dream!!
 
Peter B said:
To me, it sounds like an out and out scam, and it was probably not even the right business phone you rang. No reputable business would ever ask someone to provide such important and personal information. I bet if you contact the business by a different route, eg a phone number from on-line directories, they will be appalled at what happened.
Click to expand...

It's the correct phone number. These guys are Suzuki outboard dealers and I went through Suzuki's dealer locator to confirm their legitimacy. It will be interesting to see what PayPal has to say.:popcorn:
 
We too use Pay Pal, but have a technique for one time purchases.

We use a debt card .,and load it with about $5.00 more than the total purchase price.

If compromised , they get $5.00 , at best.

I am told a stolen ID will be used for a tiny purchase , to prove the card is valid before being sold.

Hope its sold to folks with no sense of humor!
 
angus99 said:
It's the correct phone number. These guys are Suzuki outboard dealers and I went through Suzuki's dealer locator to confirm their legitimacy. It will be interesting to see what PayPal has to say.:popcorn:
Click to expand...

The only thing that makes sense here is if the payment didnt actually process through paypal.

If you are running a card through your merchant account vs Paypal then you the merchant bear the risk of fraudulent transactions. The worst ones I imagine are the "I did not order that" claim.

If a merchant has been burned they might be inclined to take steps to minimize their risk.

Thinking about outboard motors...

They are the perfect product for credit card thieves to buy. They are high dollar, and easily re-sellable locally for cash.

This merchant might be legitiment, but has just been burned enough that he's put in place extra protections on his part to weed out potential fradulent transactions.

I'm not saying I agree with his method, I'm just saying that I can see why he might be leary of fraudulent customers.
 
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