Aroma

Spottsville said:

Have a 56 foot Carver docked next to me and boy did his blackwater tank stink. I said something to him about the oder on the dock and he seemed dumbfounded. The next day he mentioned he put bleach down the toilet to kill the odor. And the oder did stop.... Now over a month later the oder is still gone. So, I would think the bleach killed the bacteria that was stinking, but got me to thinking once the bacteria was dead how long would it take for the smelly bacteria to return? Also once the smelly bacteria is dead what should he do to grow the good (not smelly) bacteria? Was his solution a good or bad idea?

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Understand I'm not advocating his solution (bleach) just wonder if it ever makes sense to kill the tank and then pump out and basically start over from scratch. Then reestablish the aerobics bacteria you want to thrive in the tank?

Spottsville said:

Understand I'm not advocating his solution (bleach) just wonder if it ever makes sense to kill the tank and then pump out and basically start over from scratch. Then reestablish the aerobics bacteria you want to thrive in the tank?

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Don't need to worry about killing anything with a carbon filter

Check your shower sump?

First I've seen of this thread, actually.

His solution is horrible idea...bleach is corrosive and destructive to the rubber parts in toilets. Once, maybe even 2-3x in an emergency, ok...but bleach has no place anywhere on a boat.

As for why it worked...Bacteria are only active as long as they have a food source (waste in the tank), so if his tank was near empty when he poured bleach down the toilet AND he didn't use the boat--or at least didn't use the toilet--for a while, it's possible there'd be no odor--but only for a short time. There'd be enough air above the surface at first to allow anaerobic conditions...but unless he did something else--added a filter or began using a product that works, it will return if it hasn't already.

...just wonder if it ever makes sense to kill the tank and then pump out and basically start over from scratch. Then reestablish the aerobics bacteria you want to thrive in the tank?

No need to kill the tank...just pump out and thoroughly rinse out to start from scratch.

And as for filters...they actually help to create the problem they're sold to solve (if only I'd developed a product that does that!) because they impede the exchange of air with the gasses in the tank that's necessary to PREVENT odor from forming in the first place. Increase the ventilation to the tank to allow it to function aerobically... use a product that works with nature instead of against it and you won't need a filter. The first step: straighten and shorten the vent line and replace the vent thru-hull fitting (that's actually designed to keep sea water out of fuel and water tanks, it's the wrong type for use on holding tanks, but boat builders just use the same thing on all tanks 'cuz it's cheaper to buy one type in bulk) with an open "bulkhead" or "mushroom" thru-hull--the kind you can stick your finger into. On a lot of boats, that may be all you need to do.

My boat's vent line is too long and too small. It also has the wrong type of thruhull that Peggie referenced above. One of these days, I'll change it. However, what I should do is get a bigger vent line installed which is a lot of work and I'm pretty lazy when it comes down to it.

dhays said:

My boat's vent line is too long and too small. It also has the wrong type of thruhull that Peggie referenced above. One of these days, I'll change it. However, what I should do is get a bigger vent line installed which is a lot of work and I'm pretty lazy when it comes down to it.

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Dave
I have the same situation...nearly impossible to do it correctly.
Previous boat it was easy to do what Peggy recommends re second / larger vents and it solved the odor problem.

On current boat I added a fish tank bubbler and started using Noflex. The combo has worked great.
Details on website linked in my signature.

If you are not able to replace the vent with 2 large vents, one to each side of the boat so you get air flowing through the tank, then look at a Groco Sweetank. It pumps air into the bottom of the holding tank and the air bubbles up through the poop and oxygenates it. We had the exact situation and followed Peggy's advice as to introducing air into the tank and it worked beautifully. We never added any chemicals for the following 8 years that we owned the boat.

Bacchus said:

Dave
I have the same situation...nearly impossible to do it correctly.
Previous boat it was easy to do what Peggy recommends re second / larger vents and it solved the odor problem.

On current boat I added a fish tank bubbler and started using Noflex. The combo has worked great.
Details on website linked in my signature.

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Yup. So far with my boat holding tank odor hasn't really been a problem. I do use No-Flex and it has been great. I also make it a practice to completely flush the holding tank a couple times whenever I empty the tank.

However, I think a bubbler like you describe is a good solution. We had a Sweet Tank Bubbler on our Catalina 36 and it worked really well. Catalina had this "great idea" to use a holding tank vent incorporated in a lifeline stanchion. The problem was that it didn't really allow much air exchange.

For my boat, if installing a bubbler is as much work as a new vent line, the bubbler would likely work better.

I am totally confused. Bubblers, bleach, empty tank with "proper" flushing, Groco Sweetank. I imagine the list will go on for additional contraptions and additives.

My solution along with the solution sold for vent stink by West Marine, Defender and numerous unnamed marine stores is carbon. I used a fresh water filter assembly that accommodates a carbon filter. It harms nothing, nada, ziltch in the tank but it sure does eliminate STINK! So why are so many making life difficult for themselves and those nearby fighting STINK? The stink was so bad from my boat's vent that would make one's eyes water before I installed a carbon filter.

Some can call a tank's gas an odor. That is being too kind, it should be called what it really is, STINK!

Read Peggy's post above about vent filters. It is right on the mark.

Comodave said:

Read Peggy's post above about vent filters. It is right on the mark.

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Agree

Some people's minds are closed and there ain't nothin' you c'n do.

Comodave said:

Read Peggy's post above about vent filters. It is right on the mark.

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Now really

From Peggy: "And as for filters...they actually help to create the problem they're sold to solve (if only I'd developed a product that does that!) because they impede the exchange of air with the gasses in the tank that's necessary to PREVENT odor from forming in the first place. "


Who should care there is stink in a septic holding tank??? I care about STINK OUTSIDE the tank. Charcoal filters work whether Peggy likes it or not.

How to make friends at anchor or dock by explaining your boat's STINK is the result of free poop gasses in your boat's tank doing their thing. There are those who propose animals be born free but born free STINK? Thank you very much! Ridiculous

Be thankful the smell has gone. ... It is hard to believe someone can detect the odor of another boat's black tank unless they had dumped their waste overboard.

foggysail said:

Now really

From Peggy: "And as for filters...they actually help to create the problem they're sold to solve (if only I'd developed a product that does that!) because they impede the exchange of air with the gasses in the tank that's necessary to PREVENT odor from forming in the first place. "


Who should care there is stink in a septic holding tank??? I care about STINK OUTSIDE the tank. Charcoal filters work whether Peggy likes it or not.

How to make friends at anchor or dock by explaining your boat's STINK is the result of free poop gasses in your boat's tank doing their thing. There are those who propose animals be born free but born free STINK? Thank you very much! Ridiculous

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A filter will reduce the amount of odor coming from a holding tank.

However, a holding tank that has enough O2 and whose aerobic bacteria aren't being killed by germicidal tank treatments, will have no offending odor.

So I think the issue is that you fail to understand that there is an effective alternative to killing and filtering. I am glad that what you are using is working for you.

Me too!

I know next to nothing but am learning. I take what Peggy is saying as the filter is treating the symptom not the disease. Cure the disease then no symptom. Happyyour solution is working for you though. Well, not as happy as the guy in the next skip from you but still....pretty happy.

"It is hard to believe someone can detect the odor of another boat's black tank unless they had dumped their waste overboard."

In the Med the big charter buckets (30-50Meters $$$$ thousands a day) sit side be side stern too a sea wall.

They mostly pump air into the holding tanks to kill the stench.

For $25K a day black tank aroma is very unwanted.

Holding tank waste is not the same as fine wine, it is sewage. Here in Massachusetts it is nearly impossible to do a legal waste discharge because most waters are designated no discharge areas. No discharge zones continues to expand as other states follow suit. People complain, self included about the no discharge expansion and being law abiding citizens, we comply.

Now back to septic holding tanks. They contain septic effluent, not anti-septic matter that here in the States eventually finds its way back to a municipal sewage system. There is no need to cuddle the pollutant in a septic holding tank. Personally, I wish that on board waste processing systems were accepted by environmentalists instead of their taking radical positions. If such systems were approved I would install one but not until such treated waste can be legally discharged.

My carbon filter works and I will continue to use them in the future. Others do whatever they want, just don't park a stinky boat near us and we will do the same for them.

FF said:

"It is hard to believe someone can detect the odor of another boat's black tank unless they had dumped their waste overboard."

In the Med the big charter buckets (30-50Meters $$$$ thousands a day) sit side be side stern too a sea wall.

They mostly pump air into the holding tanks to kill the stench.

For $25K a day black tank aroma is very unwanted.

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Don't worry a lot of the big boys buy Noflex to keep the smells down
Their biggest problem is the sludge build up
Once it does the systems performance drops

foggysail said:

Personally, I wish that on board waste processing systems were accepted by environmentalists instead of their taking radical positions. If such systems were approved I would install one but not until such treated waste can be legally discharged.

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I agree with you. Unfortunately, Puget Sound was recently made a no discharge area. It that had not occurred, I would have seriously considered installing a treatment system. It would have been very convenient and likely more environmentally friendly than having my waste tank pumped into a muni sewage system that may, or may not, treat the waste equally well.

Now back to septic holding tanks. They contain septic effluent, not anti-septic matter that here in the States eventually finds its way back to a municipal sewage system.

You're starting from from two false premises: 1. That holding tanks are necessarily septic tanks...and 2. that the waste on land that finds its way into municipal sewage treatment systems is anti-septic. Neither is true.

But...it's your boat. If you'd rather treat the symptoms instead of preventing the disease, it's fine with me.

I wish that on board waste processing systems were accepted by environmentalists instead of their taking radical positions.

I agree with you on that 100%.

If such systems were approved I would install one but not until such treated waste can be legally discharged.

There are actually more coastal waters where the discharge of treated waste from a USCG certified Type I or II is legal than there are where it's not. Your New England waters happen to be one of the "hotbeds" of NDZ zealotry. If you check the EPA list of NDZs by state EPA NDZ list you'll see that except for some small enclosed harbors and a few well-meaning but misguided marinas, North Carolina and a small area in VA a the mouth of the Chesapeake are the only ones on the East coast between RI and the FL Keys....the Keys and Desting Harbor are the only two on the whole Gulf of Mexico. SoCal is also an NDZ "hotbed," but until the WA states zealots finally succeeded in making Puget Sound an NDZ, Huntington Harbor (a small enclosed harbor off SF Bay in Sausalito) was the only one on the whole West coast north of Santa Barbara.

HeadMistress said:

Now back to septic holding tanks. They contain septic effluent, not anti-septic matter that here in the States eventually finds its way back to a municipal sewage system.

You're starting from from two false premises: 1. That holding tanks are necessarily septic tanks...and 2. that the waste on land that finds its way into municipal sewage treatment systems is anti-septic. Neither is true.

But...it's your boat. If you'd rather treat the symptoms instead of preventing the disease, it's fine with me.

I wish that on board waste processing systems were accepted by environmentalists instead of their taking radical positions.

I agree with you on that 100%.

If such systems were approved I would install one but not until such treated waste can be legally discharged.

There are actually more coastal waters where the discharge of treated waste from a USCG certified Type I or II is legal than there are where it's not. Your New England waters happen to be one of the "hotbeds" of NDZ zealotry. If you check the EPA list of NDZs by state EPA NDZ list you'll see that except for some small enclosed harbors and a few well-meaning but misguided marinas, North Carolina and a small area in VA a the mouth of the Chesapeake are the only ones on the East coast between RI and the FL Keys....the Keys and Desting Harbor are the only two on the whole Gulf of Mexico. SoCal is also an NDZ "hotbed," but until the WA states zealots finally succeeded in making Puget Sound an NDZ, Huntington Harbor (a small enclosed harbor off SF Bay in Sausalito) was the only one on the whole West coast north of Santa Barbara.

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I just want to focus on the first part of your reply. I am using my IPad and still in the learning stage on how to cut and paste.

As to the similarity to holding tanks and a ceptic tank, they both hold toilet waste. Yes, there is some processing in a home's ceptic tank which eventually gets pumped out. Gees, that is exactly what goes on in my boat's holding tank including use of fresh water.

Next the same zealots who insist on pump outs have yet to complain about where the treasured pumped effluent ultimately ends up. I am sure where a lot of it ends up especially after a heavy rain.

I do believe that most everybody who participates in the numerous boating forums try to do the right things pertaining to the environment. With that stated, I am lost to see how my anti stink air filter stuck into my tanks vent does any harm to anything but does a lot of good by preventing stink.

foggysail said:

I just want to focus on the first part of your reply. I am using my IPad and still in the learning stage on how to cut and paste.

As to the similarity to holding tanks and a ceptic tank, they both hold toilet waste. Yes, there is some processing in a home's ceptic tank which eventually gets pumped out. Gees, that is exactly what goes on in my boat's holding tank including use of fresh water.

Next the same zealots who insist on pump outs have yet to complain about where the treasured pumped effluent ultimately ends up. I am sure where a lot of it ends up especially after a heavy rain.

I do believe that most everybody who participates in the numerous boating forums try to do the right things pertaining to the environment. With that stated, I am lost to see how my anti stink air filter stuck into my tanks vent does any harm to anything but does a lot of good by preventing stink.

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You are misinterpreting (accidentally or on purpose) other people's posts. Nobody said or implied that by using a vent filter you are harming anyone or anything.

What several people did say is that you are inhibiting the flow of oxygen to your holding tank and by doing that, you are keeping bacteria from decomposing the sewage. You are treating the symptom, not the cause.

Get rid of the filter, use the proper treatment in your holding tank and you will have little or no odor.

Or, have a stinky tank and try to cover it up with a filter.

Your choice.

As to the similarity to holding tanks and a ceptic tank, they both hold toilet waste. Yes, there is some processing in a home's ceptic tank which eventually gets pumped out. Gees, that is exactly what goes on in my boat's holding tank including use of fresh water.

Nope. Septic tanks are designed to function anaerobically (without oxygen). It's only when organic matter breaks down anaerobically that it can generate stinky gasses--hydrogen sulfide and sulfur dioxide--which are highly toxic, even lethal in concentration--and methane, which is also lethal, but actually odorless. But when organic matter breaks down aerobically (oxygenated), it converts to CO2, which is odorless. Stagnant swamps stink because the water in 'em doesn't flow causing pond scum to form on the surface "suffocating" it. Running rivers and streams don't because they're naturally aerated Compost piles have to be tossed to aerate them...if they're allowed to sit and compact, they rot...and stink. You'll never see a still pond in an office building or mall...they all have fountains and waterfalls--not just for decoration, those are necessary to keep the water from stagnating...and stinking.
So the key to odor PREVENTION is oxygen. The goal onboard is to create an AEROBIC environment in the tank. In most tanks, that can be accomplished by simply increasing ventilation above the surface. When that's not possible, an aeration system is usually the answer.

This is all in my book in greater detail (reviewed and approved by the bio-chemist at the local sewage treatment plant, btw) if you're interested learning more.Available as hard copy or a kindle (see link in my signature).

I am lost to see how my anti stink air filter stuck into my tanks vent does any harm to anything but does a lot of good by preventing stink.

It doesn't do any harm to anything but your wallet, but it doesn't prevent odor, it only BLOCKS odor--and by doing that it impedes the exchange of air needed to prevent it. If it ever gets wet, it can block the vent completely, pressurizing the system and preventing the tank from being pumped out.

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

Wesk---

I will keep my carbon filter, you do as YOU wish. Thank you very much

Gee, that saved me from making any suggestions about what you should do with your carbon filter...then I wouldn't have to type anything...wait...

"Their biggest problem is the sludge build up."

One would think by now they have trained the Na's and boat assemblers to install a bottom pump out point , (as RV use) in the black tank.

foggysail said:

Wesk---

I will keep my carbon filter, you do as YOU wish. Thank you very much

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You're welcome!

FF said:

"Their biggest problem is the sludge build up."

One would think by now they have trained the Na's and boat assemblers to install a bottom pump out point , (as RV use) in the black tank.

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The outlet in a holding tank is at the bottom. You couldn't pump it out from the top, you would be sucking air.