General docking question

In the marina setup with a fairway running vertically and slips to port and starboard perpendicular to the fairway, how wide (in relation to the slip length) should the fairway be to allow for proper maneuvering?

Example, slips to both port and starboard are 35' long, and have floating concrete fingers between them (no piers/piling). How wide should the fairway be, at a minimum? 1.5x slip length? 2x slip length?

Thx

The wider the better.

Or whatever the marina gives you .. sells you.

Let me rephrase; what is the narrowest fairway you would be comfortable navigating, as compared to your vessel's length?

And to further specify, single screw no thrusters.

FutureLooper said:

In the marina setup with a fairway running vertically and slips to port and starboard perpendicular to the fairway, how wide (in relation to the slip length) should the fairway be to allow for proper maneuvering?

Example, slips to both port and starboard are 35' long, and have floating concrete fingers between them (no piers/piling). How wide should the fairway be, at a minimum? 1.5x slip length? 2x slip length?

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Guideline is 1.75 X slip length (or longest boat if marina allows overhang)
Some states such as CA may use a standard for new construction. In practice fairway widths are all over the place. More slips = more income.

I have docked in marinas with a 1.5 to more than a 2.0 ratio of fairway width to slip length plus overhang. With a crosswind, a single engine and no bow thruster, it is very, very difficult to turn into or back out of a 1.5 ratio fairway.

David

FutureLooper said:

Let me rephrase; what is the narrowest fairway you would be comfortable navigating, as compared to your vessel's length?

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With no wind or current you should be able to turn your boat in a 360 circle in it's own length. Wheel hard over in direction opposite prop walk. small applications of fwd/reverse/fwd/reverse etc will walk you around.

There aren't many days with no wind or current so each day will result in a different diameter. Keep the fenders out and a boat hook handy. As mentioned in a prior post, some days it's impossible.

Thanks. I found out this spring that my marina put a new dock behind ours, and I've had a hell of a time getting into and out of the slip all year. Measured the fairway this weekend and its 1.75 boat length.
And of course, the wind is always blowing in Texas.
Even with the bow into the wind its been a crap shoot

In Australia, the minimum design standard is 1.5 X the longest boat length using the fairway and the preferred is 1.75.

Sometimes you will only get 5 to 15 feet in a fairway of 40 foot slips.

With little wind or current it is doable, especially if you are good with spring lines.

More than a knot of current or 10 knots of wind and I would wait or try to get another slip assignment....yet it can be done.

AusCan,
"Standard"?
Whose standard would that be?

Nomad Willy said:

AusCan,
"Standard"?
Whose standard would that be?

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Australian Standard 3962-2001

Here's a copy.
https://hamiltonislandproperty.file...962-2001_guidelines_for_design_of_marinas.pdf

AusCan said:

Australian Standard 3962-2001

Here's a copy.
https://hamiltonislandproperty.file...962-2001_guidelines_for_design_of_marinas.pdf

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Interesting,I was unaware of that. Good idea.
Normally any facility predating the AS does not have to comply. Many marinas expand after first construction, leading to varying spaces between fingers, the newer section could even be more spacious.
I find Akuna Bay Marina on the Hawkesbury tight, most of it predates the AS.
A marina tighter than you are used to definitely has you working harder than usual. And that`s on top of unfamiliar marina conditions.

Here is a hooker in the fairway measurements. Stalls are assigned by boat length with a 10% overhang allowance. What is not included are the boaters who have a O/B on the swim step in the 'Out of Water' position. With these extended lengths protruding into the waterway, one has an additional issue to deal with. I am not aware of any harbor in Southeast Alaska that takes issue with this intrusion of overall measurements. I make it here only as a point of discussion. Dealing with it is yet another piece of docking puzzle challenges.

Al-Ketchikan

n my case I would say it is 1.5 the size of the dock but without measurement. In calm condition it is fine to get in and out ( I am going bow first ). With wind it may be a bit more challenging. It is a bit more challenging now that put a big cruiser on my starboard (43 feet) that is like 10 feet longer than the dock. When the wind blows and push me back toward this boat I have to make my maneuver quicker not to be out of my way.

L.

2xboat length? 1.5x? unheard of! In our Yacht club marina, we are lucky to get much above 1.0x slip length, so if you have a boat that is shorter than the slip, you will do alright, but if you have a boat that is the full slip length, be very careful.
My own shelter is 55 ft long. I need 51 ft to clear my dinghy on davits at the stern and my pulpit and anchor at the bow. I might have a full 55 ft clearance to the boat side tied behind me, but occasionally a visiting boat is in there, so if the visitor is a bit wider than the regular occupant, so goes any extra room.
Backing out usually involves swinging the pulpit past the piling at the end of my shelter with 6" to a foot clearance, in order to be sure I don't nudge the boat behind with my dinghy. Coming in is less of an issue, as I can enter the shelter at a bit of an angle and by the time I straighten out, I am well clear of the boat behind me.

Lou_tribal said:

n my caseIt is a bit more challenging now that put a big cruiser on my starboard (43 feet) that is like 10 feet longer than the dock. When the wind blows and push me back toward this boat I have to make my maneuver quicker not to be out of my way.

L.

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Yep, You are not alone fellow boater, many of us share this picture.that is a common issue, a larger (More expensive-damage cost wise) boat as a neighbor. One of the precautions I have taken ( a subject of another recent thread-bumpers} is too lay out two of the large orange buoy ball float markers on the side exposed to this craft. Having this situation requires me to power into the slip head on carefully prepared to throw into reverse just as the bow makes contact with the float (protected by horizontal fastened bumper)then allowing the boat to idle against the float while I secure in a temporary move.

FutureLooper said:

Let me rephrase; what is the narrowest fairway you would be comfortable navigating, as compared to your vessel's length?

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In perfect conditions, one boat length would give me enough space to exit and enter my comfortably.

Perfect conditions are rare, though. There are always days when wind, current and overhanging boats make a 2 boat length fairway a real challenge to negotiate.

Wifey B: I've seen some from like barely more than the slip size but I'd never rent one of those. I think 1.5 would be absolute minimum acceptable and 1.75 to 2.0 far better. My concern isn't just me getting in and out but getting bashed by all the others who have trouble when it's windy or something.

BandB said:

Wifey B: I've seen some from like barely more than the slip size but I'd never rent one of those. I think 1.5 would be absolute minimum acceptable and 1.75 to 2.0 far better. My concern isn't just me getting in and out but getting bashed by all the others who have trouble when it's windy or something.

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Exactly! Times when one watches with baited breath, another boater making an approach under conditions that find you saying under your breath, 'Glad it isn't me!'. A request for a different berth due to the issue mentioned in an earlier post on this thread regarding O/Bs in the raised position in a narrow fairway netted my a berth on the next finger that abutted to the next size limit which gave me a wider back door. Took a while on the 'wait' list but worth the time.

Al-Ketchikan

Ask your berth neighbors how they negotiate the marina. If they all have twin engines or a bow thruster, you may be in trouble. Nevertheless, a hard rudder (either port or starboard) with a several-second burst of throttle while in gear will make a tight turn. Nevertheless, I'd be more concerned about the capability to dock in your cramped situation. If you can dock, you should be able to exit.

Speaking of overcrowding, here's my favourite snap of someone who was caring enough to hang an extra fender to help a neighbour.

A couple of years ago when we were cruising in Montreal the marina directed me down the wrong very narrow fairway. I had to put the nose of the boat partway into an empty slip in order to turn around.
Yes I could have backed out but it was more fun practicing and watching the dock master sweat.

I just went online and did some measurement of one of the more popular and reputable FLL marinas based on mapping at some point in time. Found a very interesting but not unusual situation.

West slips 120', East slips 80'. Fairway 175'. Seems reasonable. One slight problem. Boat extending beyond slip on west side 25'. Boat extending beyond slip on east side 33'. So now boats up to 145' and effective fairway down to 117'. Design good. Use not so good. In fact, placement of boats makes no sense either as why is 113' boat in the 80' slips and not the 120' slips.

Same on their smaller dock. West slip 60', east slip 50' fairway 90'. Design fine. West boat 70', East boat 70'. Effective fairway 60'.

The issue is that nearly all marinas face a demand for slips larger than they have available. Some are rigid in their limitations. Others try to fit the boats in. So suddenly fairways are much more restricted and boats much more exposed than the design ever provided.

The fairway between my marina and the neighboring marina is 40'. The slips in my marina are 35' long, the neighboring marina's slips are 30' long.

My slip is an angled 50' slip. Angled because the fairway is so narrow. My boat, when angled at 45 degrees, with the dinghy on the swim step, is almost exactly 40' wide. I am fortunate that I am near the end, but when a large boat overhangs the outside dock on the neighboring marina, it can get interesting.

Here is a google earth screen shot. My boat is circled and I put a line where the stern of the boat behind me often it located (unless they hang over).

dhays said:

The fairway between my marina and the neighboring marina is 40'. The slips in my marina are 35' long, the neighboring marina's slips are 30' long.

My slip is an angled 50' slip. Angled because the fairway is so narrow. My boat, when angled at 45 degrees, with the dinghy on the swim step, is almost exactly 40' wide. I am fortunate that I am near the end, but when a large boat overhangs the outside dock on the neighboring marina, it can get interesting.

Here is a google earth screen shot. My boat is circled and I put a line where the stern of the boat behind me often it located (unless they hang over).
View attachment 67937

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Angled actually makes a lot of sense, much as in parking lots and garages, except they require boats to be backed long distances and many have difficulty with that. We have a similar situation on many canals around us. Boats have side tie docks and have to get to and from their docks by going forward one of the ways and in reverse the entire opposite way. For some boats that can be as much as 2000' of backing.

Undoubtedly twin screws but still...

CDreamer said:

Undoubtedly twin screws but still...

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Seen that many times. Impressive!

This one always cracks me up

https://youtu.be/9qHdPhkSSNQ

FutureLooper said:

Seen that many times. Impressive!

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IMHO -Turn up the volume. Listen closely, thrusters are in play. A good twin screw operator can perform a wonderful demonstration, I doubt this boat is operating with just twins.