Another US Navy collision
- Thread starter angus99
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2012
- Messages
- 4,279
- Location
- Australia
- Vessel Name
- Insequent
- Vessel Make
- Ocean Alexander 50 Mk I
Another Navy collision, this time USS John McCain near Singapore. Scant detail so far, but "search and Rescue underway" does not sound good.
US Navy destroyer collides with merchant ship
https://news.usni.org/2017/08/20/us...-search-rescue-operations-underway#more-27607
US Navy destroyer collides with merchant ship
https://news.usni.org/2017/08/20/us...-search-rescue-operations-underway#more-27607
klee wyck
Guru
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2014
- Messages
- 987
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Domino and Libra
- Vessel Make
- Malcom Tennant 20M and Noordzee Kotter 52
Another military collision?
U.S. Navy said the guided-missile destroyer USS John S. McCain collided with a*merchant vessel in waters*east of Singapore and the Strait of Malacca early Monday.*
Initial reports indicated that the destroyer sustained damage to her port side aft.
The Navy did not provide any information on injuries, but said search and rescue efforts were underway.
U.S. Navy said the guided-missile destroyer USS John S. McCain collided with a*merchant vessel in waters*east of Singapore and the Strait of Malacca early Monday.*
Initial reports indicated that the destroyer sustained damage to her port side aft.
The Navy did not provide any information on injuries, but said search and rescue efforts were underway.
Fletcher500
Guru
Amazing, just saw that. There is a good write up on the last collision in G Captain. Some very strong opinions offered between the Merchant guys, and NAvy. It got a bit testy, but a good discussion.
I'm stunned. I'm sure there is a way that people will explain who is at fault, but the fact that a merchant vessel can sneak up and rear end one of our multi-billion dollar vessels is making me think something is seriously wrong with our technology, or the people operating it!
Is the Navy capable of noticing a container ship or merchant vessel sneaking up to rear end it?
I'm not sure this is boosting confidence. Have they simply been training too much to focus on hypersonic missile that these ships just seem to be non-moving objects?
Crap ... and they lost 10 sailors in this new one!
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/20/asia/us-navy-destroyer-collision-singapore/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/20/asia/us-navy-destroyer-collision-singapore/index.html
Maybe with all the current threats, we just have an inordinate number of ships deployed in that area? So the chances of collisions are higher than normal? I have a family member deployed somewhere over there on the Nimitz now...he's been "in" for 3 years and this is really his first significant deployment. Rest has been occasional "training" off of California. That tells me the crews on these ships may be pretty green...
Maerin
Guru
They might, but undoubtedly with a special focus on sensitivity to the other ship's rights & feelings.
dhays
Guru
- Joined
- May 26, 2015
- Messages
- 9,045
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- Kinship
- Vessel Make
- North Pacific 43
I know you aren't making excuses, but green crews are not an excuse for a navy with an over 200 year tradition.
Statically, it is certainly possible to get 4 incidents in a cluster. However, from the outside perspective it really looks bad and doesn't give me much confidence.
Statically, it is certainly possible to get 4 incidents in a cluster. However, from the outside perspective it really looks bad and doesn't give me much confidence.
Benthic2
Guru
This is unbelievable. I know there are a lot of navy ships covering a lot of incident free miles....but this really doesn't look good. Keeping my fingers crossed for the 10 missing sailors.
Benthic2
Guru
In the interest of redundancy reduction and minimization of repetitiveness, perhaps this thread could be continued here:
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/another-us-navy-collision-34077.html#post585133
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/another-us-navy-collision-34077.html#post585133
Benthic2
Guru
In the interest of redundancy reduction and minimization of repetitiveness, perhaps this thread could be continued here:
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/another-us-navy-collision-34077.html#post585133
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/another-us-navy-collision-34077.html#post585133
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2012
- Messages
- 4,279
- Location
- Australia
- Vessel Name
- Insequent
- Vessel Make
- Ocean Alexander 50 Mk I
Too early to opportion blame. Singapore is and Straights of Malacca are busy areas, but so are a lot of other places around the world.
The Navy likely has many more sets of eyes for lookouts than merchant vessels, better electronic aids and navigation equipment, and multiple communication options. It is hard to see how they could manage to find themselves involved in another incident where, unfortunately, fatalities seem to have occurred. Something is wrong with procedures, and bridge staffing/training/management, and maybe the operations handbook?
Ten missing, five hurt as US destroyer collides with merchant ship
The Navy likely has many more sets of eyes for lookouts than merchant vessels, better electronic aids and navigation equipment, and multiple communication options. It is hard to see how they could manage to find themselves involved in another incident where, unfortunately, fatalities seem to have occurred. Something is wrong with procedures, and bridge staffing/training/management, and maybe the operations handbook?
Ten missing, five hurt as US destroyer collides with merchant ship
Last edited:
Dhays -
I agree and I'm certainly not looking to excuse this...It's a terrible situation. I'm just wondering if this really is just a "cluster" of accidents - I hope it's not indicative of a wider problem. And I don't really know if there are more ships deployed on higher alerts right now in that part of the world, but if there are, it would seem to increase the odds of this as a cluster.
Maybe they should turn on the AIS. (Oh yeah...but then the big secret would be out!)
I agree and I'm certainly not looking to excuse this...It's a terrible situation. I'm just wondering if this really is just a "cluster" of accidents - I hope it's not indicative of a wider problem. And I don't really know if there are more ships deployed on higher alerts right now in that part of the world, but if there are, it would seem to increase the odds of this as a cluster.
Maybe they should turn on the AIS. (Oh yeah...but then the big secret would be out!)
LarryM
Guru
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2011
- Messages
- 1,069
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Pelago
- Vessel Make
- Wellcraft 3300 Coastal
"A US Navy official told CNN the McCain had experienced a loss of steering before the collision, but that steering had been regained."
It is certainly too early to know if this contributed to the incident, or if indeed it actually happened, but . . . . .
The across-the-board funding cuts to military budgets that resulted under the Obama administration’s Budget Control Act, known as sequestration, have shrunk the number of available aircraft and warships in the American arsenal to their lowest point since World War II.
The Navy fleets had a $500-million ship maintenance budget shortfall leftover from 2016 that continues to grow in 2017. The shipyards and aviation depots are failing to get ships and aircraft through maintenance periods on time.
In February, the Navy reported nearly two-thirds of its F/A 18 strike fighter jets are currently unable to fly, grounded due to repair delays or because they are awaiting spare parts. The USMC reported 70% of its combat aircraft were unable to fly. Its usable planes are being pushed to the limit. I couldn't readily find the same availability statistics for the Navy's warships, but they are undoubtedly operationally affected as well.
Training has similarly suffered and SWO's (Surface Warfare Officers) are being pushed into the fleet with less training than ever before.
IMO, I believe we (the public) are just beginning to see the results of these budget cuts to a military deployed throughout the globe and stretched far too thin.
It is certainly too early to know if this contributed to the incident, or if indeed it actually happened, but . . . . .
The across-the-board funding cuts to military budgets that resulted under the Obama administration’s Budget Control Act, known as sequestration, have shrunk the number of available aircraft and warships in the American arsenal to their lowest point since World War II.
The Navy fleets had a $500-million ship maintenance budget shortfall leftover from 2016 that continues to grow in 2017. The shipyards and aviation depots are failing to get ships and aircraft through maintenance periods on time.
In February, the Navy reported nearly two-thirds of its F/A 18 strike fighter jets are currently unable to fly, grounded due to repair delays or because they are awaiting spare parts. The USMC reported 70% of its combat aircraft were unable to fly. Its usable planes are being pushed to the limit. I couldn't readily find the same availability statistics for the Navy's warships, but they are undoubtedly operationally affected as well.
Training has similarly suffered and SWO's (Surface Warfare Officers) are being pushed into the fleet with less training than ever before.
IMO, I believe we (the public) are just beginning to see the results of these budget cuts to a military deployed throughout the globe and stretched far too thin.
Lepke
Guru
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2016
- Messages
- 3,034
- Location
- US
- Vessel Name
- Charlie Harper
- Vessel Make
- Wheeler Shipyard 83'
I stood navy bridge watches on a WWII built destroyer. Something has changed since my days. We always had 3 lookouts plus the two deck officers and usually a couple signalmen (that don't exist anymore). I notice I don't often see people outside the bridge at sea.
FF
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2007
- Messages
- 22,552
"In February, the Navy reported nearly two-thirds of its F/A 18 strike fighter jets are currently unable to fly, grounded due to repair delays or because they are awaiting spare parts. The USMC reported 70% of its combat aircraft were unable to fly. Its usable planes are being pushed to the limit."
True BUT much of the reason is the military scraps aircraft parts that wear out.
So must wait (and pay) for new anything.
Airlines do not have the same policy , they prefer rebuilt parts that are easily kept in stock, and are vastly less expensive.
True BUT much of the reason is the military scraps aircraft parts that wear out.
So must wait (and pay) for new anything.
Airlines do not have the same policy , they prefer rebuilt parts that are easily kept in stock, and are vastly less expensive.
Nomad Willy
Guru
Larry M wrote;
"The across-the-board funding cuts to military budgets that resulted under the Obama administration’s Budget Control Act, known as sequestration, have shrunk the number of available aircraft and warships in the American arsenal to their lowest point since World War II."
So you're saying we should have a bigger defense budget than we do now? I think we're rediculously many many times above the next highest military budget of all the nations of the world. If we have that many enimies we need to do something else. Or not do what we're doing now.
"The across-the-board funding cuts to military budgets that resulted under the Obama administration’s Budget Control Act, known as sequestration, have shrunk the number of available aircraft and warships in the American arsenal to their lowest point since World War II."
So you're saying we should have a bigger defense budget than we do now? I think we're rediculously many many times above the next highest military budget of all the nations of the world. If we have that many enimies we need to do something else. Or not do what we're doing now.
psneeld
Guru
The transition is hard.
Often Congressional oversight committees nip funds from certain columns, resulting in too many personnel and hardware for training and repair funds.
Then instead of allowing the military to balance things by cancelling new orders or closing bases, those actions are denied.
If you are going to keep a certain sized force you owe it to them to make them the best, or why would they bother to serve? I can pretty well guess who would wind up in a secondary rate military.....
The Russian military has fought the same issues for decades.
Often Congressional oversight committees nip funds from certain columns, resulting in too many personnel and hardware for training and repair funds.
Then instead of allowing the military to balance things by cancelling new orders or closing bases, those actions are denied.
If you are going to keep a certain sized force you owe it to them to make them the best, or why would they bother to serve? I can pretty well guess who would wind up in a secondary rate military.....
The Russian military has fought the same issues for decades.
Last edited:
No matter what the budget cuts were, the faster, more powerful & easier operating USS John S. McCain should have been able to avoid a collision with a merchant ship moving at 10 knots.
Neither Murphy's law.
The truth is out there.
Blaming budget cuts is total BS,
following colregs and keeping an adequate lookout are the most basic requirements for any vessel, anywhere in the world.
With over 300 trained sailors aboard, this kind of disaster should never happen, even gear failure should bring forth a back up.
The Captain and duty officer should face a court martial......he is ultimately the responsible party.....If I killed ten people by driving a car in a dangerous manner I would expect some very serious jail time.
I feel the pain of the families of the missing sailors, they deserved a better fate than this.
following colregs and keeping an adequate lookout are the most basic requirements for any vessel, anywhere in the world.
With over 300 trained sailors aboard, this kind of disaster should never happen, even gear failure should bring forth a back up.
The Captain and duty officer should face a court martial......he is ultimately the responsible party.....If I killed ten people by driving a car in a dangerous manner I would expect some very serious jail time.
I feel the pain of the families of the missing sailors, they deserved a better fate than this.
Steve
Guru
Historical comparisons are misleading.
psneeld
Guru
Doesn't the saying go something like......Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it....?
Plus factored in plenty of generalization.....
And to be clear.....I don't think budget cuts are to blame...probably.
I would like to know more about the possible steering casualty before armchairing......
Plus factored in plenty of generalization.....
And to be clear.....I don't think budget cuts are to blame...probably.
I would like to know more about the possible steering casualty before armchairing......
Last edited:
