Hi and help

Hi all. I am new to the forum and look forward to trading stories and tips. I am in year two of owning a 1983 Norther Trawler 35' TriCabin. It has been great. With my wife and 3 daughters we have spent a month on board last summer and this summer.

Over the past few weeks I have noticed my bow dip while at dock or anchor. We started out with most of the boot stripe above water (even that seemed a bit low to me...I thought it would rise as I filled the water and fuel tanks. It didn't). In the two weeks since filllong the fuel tanks (water has been emptied and refilled a few times) the bow is getting slowly lower. Now I only see about a half inch of boot stripe. The bilge is always a bit wet but not enough to trigger the pump. Compartments under v berth bunks are dry (they did get water in over the winter from rain, I think). Any ideas??

Guido said:

Hi all. I am new to the forum and look forward to trading stories and tips. I am in year two of owning a 1983 Norther Trawler 35' TriCabin. It has been great. With my wife and 3 daughters we have spent a month on board last summer and this summer.

Over the past few weeks I have noticed my bow dip while at dock or anchor. We started out with most of the boot stripe above water (even that seemed a bit low to me...I thought it would rise as I filled the water and fuel tanks. It didn't). In the two weeks since filllong the fuel tanks (water has been emptied and refilled a few times) the bow is getting slowly lower. Now I only see about a half inch of boot stripe. The bilge is always a bit wet but not enough to trigger the pump. Compartments under v berth bunks are dry (they did get water in over the winter from rain, I think). Any ideas??

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Welcome Guido.

Off the top of my head, there may be a crack in the bow under the water line. Just a guess. Have you went aground hard or have you hit anything?

I am sure some other will chime in to give you their thought.

Best of luck

Cheers.

H

I don't think it would just mysteriously get lower in the water. There has to be a reason. And it would be adding weight or losing buoyancy. The only other thing would be the hull is absorbing water and I seriously doubt that. Go thru all of the things you have changed recently. Remember when you move something, you are not only adding weight to where you move it to...but you are removing weight from where you moved it from. It is a double whammy. So moving 50lbs from aft to forward is like adding 100 pounds up front. So while you may think some small things move shouldn't cause anything, they might.

Do you have a hollow keel? The GB 32 has one and mine filled up with water because a screw fell out of the stem, the hole was under water while we were under way. That might account for it. Some boats have a small vertical hose or pipe, usually capped off, in the bottom of the bilge. Look to see if you have one? If you do, a drill pump inserted in the pipe will tell the tale. A drill pump may not have the capacity to remove all the water but its a start.

Baker said:

I don't think it would just mysteriously get lower in the water. There has to be a reason. And it would be adding weight or losing buoyancy. The only other thing would be the hull is absorbing water and I seriously doubt that. Go thru all of the things you have changed recently. Remember when you move something, you are not only adding weight to where you move it to...but you are removing weight from where you moved it from. It is a double whammy. So moving 50lbs from aft to forward is like adding 100 pounds up front. So while you may think some small things move shouldn't cause anything, they might.

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That is a good point Baker. But why would the bow still be going lower?

Cheers

H

hfoster said:

Welcome Guido.

Off the top of my head, there may be a crack in the bow under the water line. Just a guess. Have you went aground hard or have you hit anything?

I am sure some other will chime in to give you their thought.

Best of luck

Cheers.

H

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Thanks for the suggestion. I don't think there is a crack. I bought the boat 18 months ago and surveyor found nothing like that. I have hit nothing since owning it.

Good question about the keel. I did have some drive shaft work done...I will ask the mechanic about that.

Maybe this is it. We will reach home port today and unload. We have been out with 5 people for two weeks. A lot of stuff has been moved around. Maybe all will return to normal....though there is not really that much stuff forward...

Guido said:

Maybe this is it. We will reach home port today and unload. We have been out with 5 people for two weeks. A lot of stuff has been moved around. Maybe all will return to normal....though there is not really that much stuff forward...

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Let's hope Guido.

What I cannot understand is why the bow is still getting lower with stuff being moved around. I can see it sitting lower from added weight but not getting lower and lower.

I do hope that is it. Keep us posted on what you find out.

Cheers.

H.

hfoster said:

Let's hope Guido.

What I cannot understand is why the bow is still getting lower with stuff being moved around. I can see it sitting lower from added weight but not getting lower and lower.

I do hope that is it. Keep us posted on what you find out.

Cheers.

H.

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I just emptied the holding tank (at sea) and asked my daughter to go top speed to see if that would shake more out of the holding tank. What it did is trigger the bilge which pumped some pretty stinky grey water. I think I have a forward part of my bilge which is lower than the bilge pump...

Guido said:

I just emptied the holding tank (at sea) and asked my daughter to go top speed to see if that would shake more out of the holding tank. What it did is trigger the bilge which pumped some pretty stinky grey water. I think I have a forward part of my bilge which is lower than the bilge pump...

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That would make sense and it sounds like you are on the right track.

Thanks for the update.

Cheers Mate.
H.

Guido said:

I just emptied the holding tank (at sea) and asked my daughter to go top speed to see if that would shake more out of the holding tank. What it did is trigger the bilge which pumped some pretty stinky grey water. I think I have a forward part of my bilge which is lower than the bilge pump...

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Check where your shower drain goes. Some boats will have a bilge that is hidden. Also, you mentioned "a" bildge pump. Many boats have more than one. If yours has a bilge pump in a forward bilge that isn't working, and you have a shower, anchor locker or a FW leak into that area, then you could get bow down.

With as much bow down attitude as you describe, I would doubt that it is just the gear from the 5 of you.

Check the drain from the anchor chain locker isn't blocked

Aquabelle said:

Check the drain from the anchor chain locker isn't blocked

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Good thought. Will do. Thanks.

Guido said:

Thanks for the suggestion. I don't think there is a crack. I bought the boat 18 months ago and surveyor found nothing like that. I have hit nothing since owning it.

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Keep pursuing all possibilities and more than likely coming from inside-shower, holding, weight shift. However, do not eliminate something from consideration when you don't know what the problem is yet. If you don't figure out the problem, then it becomes time to haul and check what you can't see inside.

dhays said:

Check where your shower drain goes. Some boats will have a bilge that is hidden. Also, you mentioned "a" bildge pump. Many boats have more than one. If yours has a bilge pump in a forward bilge that isn't working, and you have a shower, anchor locker or a FW leak into that area, then you could get bow down.

With as much bow down attitude as you describe, I would doubt that it is just the gear from the 5 of you.

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Yes, I think you are onto something. We arrived back at home port and I took some off two heavy coolers that had migrated to the foredeck. It helped a bit (that and having emptied the bilge and holding tank). But I still don't have the whole bootstripe out of the water as it was. I checked the bilge area...I have suspected a hidden bilge. My only bilge pump is easily visible but on a part of the bilge raised about an inch. Just aft of that is a small collection area that never dries. Forward of the raised bilge is a collection area that disappears forward under the holding tank. A forward shower does empty into this area but is out of commission. Since emptying the bilge and holding tank about 2 hours before docking and now (6 hours later, dockside) the bilge is pretty full, but not quite enough to trigger the (high) pump. So I used a wet vac and brought up about 6 gallons of pretty nasty bilge water (I had done this about a week ago). i will check it again after a few days dockside and see if it refills.
Continued thanks for your thoughts!!

Guido said:

Forward of the raised bilge is a collection area that disappears forward under the holding tank.

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What kind of holding tank is it? Steel or what? There may be a small leak in the tank and is leaking forward of the tank into the bow and your bilge cannot pump it out.

I recall you saying you had your daughter go full steam head and you seen a sticky gray water run back. I would check the tank as well if you can.

Cheers.

H.

And in addition to finding the problem, you need more bilge pumps including having them at the lowest point. Having water that remains always and won't pump out isn't acceptable.

hfoster said:

What kind of holding tank is it? Steel or what? There may be a small leak in the tank and is leaking forward of the tank into the bow and your bilge cannot pump it out.

I recall you saying you had your daughter go full steam head and you seen a sticky gray water run back. I would check the tank as well if you can.

Cheers.

H.

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The holding tank is FRP. I don't think it is leaking, but no suspect is off the hook yet!

BandB said:

And in addition to finding the problem, you need more bilge pumps including having them at the lowest point. Having water that remains always and won't pump out isn't acceptable.

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Yes - I can't deny that. Would be nice to have a dry bilge!

Okay. It has been a week or two and I have tried some things. You all were so supportive so here is a quick update. After we returned from our trip we unloaded. Removing stuff, especially the heavy cooler from the front helped a bit with the nose buoyancy. After I refilled the aft water tanks things really improved, water line wise. So that is all good. There is still the matter of the bilge though. There is a forward portion which disappears under the holding tank and is separated by a small ridge from where the bilge pump sits so a shallow accumulation of several gallons can accumulate. I shop vac-ed out the forward part of my bilge which yielded distinctly grey off-smelling water. I left it a week (with a freshly emptied holding tank) and it has refilled a bit. All seacocks shut too so it is a mystery where it is coming from. We had a small bit of rain, Next thing is to check if it's salty!

Guido said:

Okay. It has been a week or two and I have tried some things. You all were so supportive so here is a quick update. After we returned from our trip we unloaded. Removing stuff, especially the heavy cooler from the front helped a bit with the nose buoyancy. After I refilled the aft water tanks things really improved, water line wise. So that is all good. There is still the matter of the bilge though. There is a forward portion which disappears under the holding tank and is separated by a small ridge from where the bilge pump sits so a shallow accumulation of several gallons can accumulate. I shop vac-ed out the forward part of my bilge which yielded distinctly grey off-smelling water. I left it a week (with a freshly emptied holding tank) and it has refilled a bit. All seacocks shut too so it is a mystery where it is coming from. We had a small bit of rain, Next thing is to check if it's salty!

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Thanks for the update Guido.

It does sound like you do have a leak somewhere. The Grey off-smelling water is the kicker Mate. Several gallons?

Humm. Questions. How many inches do you think the bow drop on your trip. How Much do you think it came up after you unload?

Cheers.

H.

hfoster said:

Thanks for the update Guido.

It does sound like you do have a leak somewhere. The Grey off-smelling water is the kicker Mate. Several gallons?

Humm. Questions. How many inches do you think the bow drop on your trip. How Much do you think it came up after you unload?

Cheers.

H.

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The difference between the low and the high of the bow dip was probably 1.5 to 2 inches. In the 10 days it has been home and since unpacking it has remained high and proud...even though the bilge has refilled a bit.

Guido said:

The difference between the low and the high of the bow dip was probably 1.5 to 2 inches. In the 10 days it has been home and since unpacking it has remained high and proud...even though the bilge has refilled a bit.

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That is great she is remaining high and proud. I believe you had to much weight upfront during your trip as Baker said. With the grey smelly water adding to the weight I could see in riding lower and lower as your trip went on.

Remember a gallon of water weights 8.34 lbs. You said you a had few gallons of the grey stinky water the you vaced out so that didn't help.

Not all you have to do is find out were that smelly water is coming from.

Cheers Mater.

H.

Guido said:

The difference between the low and the high of the bow dip was probably 1.5 to 2 inches. In the 10 days it has been home and since unpacking it has remained high and proud...even though the bilge has refilled a bit.

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I'd lay odds on that the main thing influencing the trim was the progressive emptying of your water tanks, and fuel as well, over the duration of your outing. The weight of water and fuel used would have far more influence on trim than the stuff you have on board, which would not change much, as food would be stored fairly centrally. The filling holding tank for'd would also add to the effect. It doesn't sound like that for'd bilge-water would be enough to make much difference over all, although nice to find out where from, and set things up to remove it better than having to vacuum it out all the time.

PS Now this thread has moved well on from the 'hi' bit, I have moved it to 'general discussion' section, you might have noticed.

" Having water that remains always and won't pump out isn't acceptable."

Water will remain unless the NA designed in a low point sump , and the boat assembler built it in .

Like many boat "problems" the can be designed our before construction.

1 gallon = 8.35 lbs

If we're talking about 6-8 gallons of grey stinky water, then we're really talking about 50-65 lbs. It wasn't clear the tank capacity or amount of water filled in the aforementioned aft water tanks. 100 gallons in the aft water tanks would be 835 lbs. I'd be more apt to suspect the water in tanks effecting trim over the small amount of water in the bilge. I wouldn't discount some impact on large, heavy coolers either. My 165 quart cooler when filled, along with ice will cause a list of a few degrees to stbd when stored along that the gunnel on that side.

Baker said:

I don't think it would just mysteriously get lower in the water. There has to be a reason. And it would be adding weight or losing buoyancy. The only other thing would be the hull is absorbing water and I seriously doubt that. Go thru all of the things you have changed recently. Remember when you move something, you are not only adding weight to where you move it to...but you are removing weight from where you moved it from. It is a double whammy. So moving 50lbs from aft to forward is like adding 100 pounds up front. So while you may think some small things move shouldn't cause anything, they might.

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This is so true when balancing your vessel.

Baker said:

It is a double whammy. So moving 50lbs from aft to forward is like adding 100 pounds up front. So while you may think some small things move shouldn't cause anything, they might.

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Glad it is back to normal!
Baker is so right and a lot of people forget that. Although I would say that moving 50lb from aft to forward on a trawler is like adding 150lbs + forward!!!!