Plan B for a dinghy motor failure?

O C Diver said:

Rowed and let the wind push my RIB back to the mother ship. An hour to go maybe a half a mile. I think I could row a cast iron bathtub faster.

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psneeld said:

Row till you drop.

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O C Diver said:

If that's the answer, then I'm getting something rowable. Mine isn't for any meaningful distance.

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Walker Bay makes a rigid dinghy with an inflatable collar option. That approach could mean RIB-like advantages in a rowable dinghy. The WB dinghy is said to row OK, and I'd guess certainly better than most RIBs. The WB dinghy also has an optional sail kit. The WB one doesn't do high speeds with the motor, though, if that's also a requirement.

Might be other makers offer a similar approach. And/or might be possible to add an inflatable collar to any decent rigid dinghy.

?

Might be slightly easier/better rowing on most RIBs by simply improving the oars. Meaning use real ones, instead of the abbreviated versions typically included with most RIBs.

Another approach might be doing your exploring with a canoe. Square-stern, add a motor... paddle home under duress if necessary. Maybe try a kayak paddle instead of a typical single canoe paddle. Fill most of the canoe with inflatable bags when interior space isn't needed (whitewater bags), remove those when you're hauling groceries.

Could maybe keep the RIB, add a canoe to your boat, use the (motorized?) canoe for longer distance exploring, use the RIB when you need a short-trip station wagon.

??

-Chris

Ted, I know you are probably well past most of this discussion, but you also probably already knew there are few reasonable alternatives other than a fine rowing vessel with oars as backup.

But for newcomers to dingies.....I guess my rowing in college must have helped me.

While she is no pretty pulling skiff, my RHIB rows well enough that I can row back from my expeditions if necessary. For most, dont just assume a hard dingy will row better than a RHIB, try one before making that compromise. I have rowed a lot of hard dingies that I think are worse than my RHIB. Now soft bottom inflatables are another category all together except maybe a few styles.

I hope everyone knows you row inflatables a little different....short choppy pulls versus normal pulling?

If the wind and tide are going to be against me and a long distance, I rethink my options....even to the point of walking it along shore as an option.

when we cruised the Canadian canal systems for 2 years we carried a Merc 2.2 as a spare. It was 2 cycle so it could use gas mix we had for the Yamaha with a little more oil added.
We never needed it so I sold it for more than I paid for it.

Hand held VHF and Phone and be prepared to call for tow assistance or stranger assistance.

I don't go anywhere without my phone and no where on the water without a VHF.

Dinghy motor is more likely to fail and strand you than main boat. You use it to explore as we do and we might be far from the boat.

Is your engine electric start? I'd carry a small trolling motor. You'd be surprised how far a thirty pound thrust trolling motor will push you with even a small battery. A trolling motor can sit unused for years and still go when you hook it to a battery. It's also about half the weight of the smallest internal combustion engine. If you don't already have a battery on the dinghy, it might be worth carrying one.

There has been some discussion of carrying a small second outboard in the dinghy. Given the frequency of outboard thefts in parts of the world I wonder how long an outboard not mounted but chained to the dinghy would last before being stolen.

O C Diver said:

I use my dinghy to go exploring off the beaten path. Getting towed back or having cell service may not be an option (wouldn't have been available at Isle Royale). So as I was struggling to get back, my mind is going, "The first one was easy. This second one is your wakeup call. Hey stupid, what's plan B when you're 5 miles away? "

So I'm open to suggestions.

Ted

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What is the goal here?

• To be get back 5 miles without assistance?
• To get to a place where (some type of) assistance can be contacted?
• To be able to contact (some type of) assistance from where the failure occurs?

Then of course, what kind of assistance do you desire? A low-profile tow, or a high-profile, I'm-getting-swept-out-to-sea CG intervention?

Seems to me there would be different solutions: an additional engine to get back, maybe just oars to get ashore and find help, or (my choice) a PLB. Might seem to be overkill but I'd rather get too much help than too little.

Some more information:

It appears that I won't be hearing back from my contact at the outboard motor manufacturer till Monday. Hope he's having a nice long weekend.

The outboard I have is a Lehr 9.9 that runs on propane. I knew the fuel wasn't bad as I cooked a pork tenderloin on the grill with it last night. For those that are unfamiliar with propane engines, the fuel comes out from the tank around 200 psi, is reduced in pressure through an orifice that generates a refrigeration effect, goes through a heat exchanger to stabilize the temperature, and then through a regulator in the carburetor to stabilize fuel delivery to the engine.

The first carburetor failed when the internal regulator died venting the excess propane through a safety valve. Lehr sent me a replacement carburetor, no charge, under warranty. This I installed and it worked flawlessly for 50 minutes and then suffered a similar type failure. It's my guess that the heat exchanger before the carburetor is the issue and caused both failures. My buddy who is a propane forklift mechanic, said these types of failures to the carburetor happen as a result of the heat exchanger not stabilizing the gas temperature. So at this point I believe the second failure was from not diagnosing correctly the cause of the first failure.

O C Diver said:

I go places where the hand help won't reach anyone or I don't have cell phone service. Always travel with a PLB or an EPIRB, so ultimate rescue isn't the issue. Let's call them plan C. Still trying to figure out a self rescue plan B.

Ted

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For those that missed the above, I go exploring places where other people are unlikely to pass by. Self help needs to be plan B.

danderer said:

What is the goal here?

• To be get back 5 miles without assistance?
• To get to a place where (some type of) assistance can be contacted?
• To be able to contact (some type of) assistance from where the failure occurs?

Then of course, what kind of assistance do you desire? A low-profile tow, or a high-profile, I'm-getting-swept-out-to-sea CG intervention?

Seems to me there would be different solutions: an additional engine to get back, maybe just oars to get ashore and find help, or (my choice) a PLB. Might seem to be overkill but I'd rather get too much help than too little.

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Have much of this covered. Still need to be able to get back from 5+ miles unassisted.

Ted

kev_rm said:

A kite is actually not a bad idea.

For me, plan A is an outboard I have confidence in

Plan B is a few tools and spare parts.

Plan C is a handheld and or visual comms with passerby's

I would do a PLB or Epirb on the dinghy if I was likely to be out of range of anyone with the Vhf for more than a day, which is basically never.

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I already have A, B and C and also D, long oars.
I guess the sail is plan E.

Portable Foldable Travel Sail Kit for DIY Sailing Project.

Dyer Dink. Row, sail, or motor. Triple redundancy.

This thread is interesting to me because I'm also losing confidence in my dinghy outboard.

My old 15hp Johnson 2 stroke has been giving me fits so far during my Bahamas trip. It starts fairly well (2-3 pulls) sometimes, but maybe 20% it's 9-10 pulls. I've removed and clean the carb, new plugs, etc. It's just an old ass engine however-- early 1990 vintage, so I wonder if I should just replace it. When underway it sounds like two chainsaws fighting each other.

I asked some of the charter operators here what engine they like and they said the 8hp 2 stroke Yamaha has been very reliable. They also sell a 15 hp 2stroke Yamaha in Marash Harbor still also. They quoted me $2000 for the 8 and $2500 for the 15hp. Didn't seem terrible for a new engine.

Would I be stupid to stay with a 2 stroke instead of a new 4 stroke? I sure like the light weight of my engine (about 75 lbs). My trip is almost over so I'm wondering if that 2 stroke deal is Marsh is worth it, or just wait on a good used 4 stroke when back home.

"My old 15hp Johnson 2 stroke has been giving me fits so far during my Bahamas trip."

Have you replaced the coil and ignition wires?

The ignition windings have a limited life , perhaps a decade or two , when the engine is 3 or 4 decades old "stuff happens".

Everything is easily available to repair or rebuild these old jewels , in the USA at modest cost.

Perhaps a winter project 4- 10 hours and come cash rather than $2500.

I have a 2011, 4 stroke, 8hp Yammie that has been great even though its first year of life was at a skiff rental place.

It is heavy, but quiet and reliable. It is pretty hard to pull start . It also is a bit underpowered for my 3.1m RHIB with anything more than 2 people.

I would seriously think about a 2 stroke over there. If kept in nice shape, it will hold its worth here in the US fo awhile as much as 2 strokes are in demand.

And there in lies the rub. FF has a good suggestion, but being in the Bahamas gives you the opportunity to stay 2 stroke and that is a tempting situation.

FF: I have not replaced the coils yet. Spark seems good. I'm worried about all the timing advance linkages and stuff-- it all seems loose and worn out. I'm not a great outboard mechanic however. And I'm getting tired of working on this one!

PSneed: that's what I was thinking on the 2 strokes here-- do I take advantage of my situation and buy a new 2 stroke?

cardude01 said:

FF: I have not replaced the coils yet. Spark seems good. I'm worried about all the timing advance linkages and stuff-- it all seems loose and worn out. I'm not a great outboard mechanic however. And I'm getting tired of working on this one!

PSneed: that's what I was thinking on the 2 strokes here-- do I take advantage of my situation and buy a new 2 stroke?

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I have no idea what the leagalities are....probably none and even if.......

But so many boaters here in the states lament that you cant get a 2 stroke, I might even buy a "spare" over there and sell it when I got home.

The 15 hp yamaha that came with the dinghy on my boat was bought in the Caribbean and the PO never bothered to declare it when they came back. All I had to do was to take a pic of the name plate and that was sent along with some form the the lady at closing filled out.

Still havent tried starting it so its been at least 12 years since it last ran.

LarryM said:

As was mentioned earlier, how about something like this stowed in a bag until needed. It weighs 30#.

https://marine.honda.com/outboards/motor-detail/BF2.3

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O C Diver said:

I go places where the hand help won't reach anyone or I don't have cell phone service. Always travel with a PLB or an EPIRB, so ultimate rescue isn't the issue. Let's call them plan C. Still trying to figure out a self rescue plan B.

Ted

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OC, as some others have said, there is no realistic plan B, you just have to be sure that plan A is as bullet-proof as possible. My suggestion is to use the motor LarryM has pictured above. It is also what I have. It is an air-cooled (no flushing needed and can be test run in the dry before even mounting on the dink), trusty Honda 4 stroke, (no oil mix, so fuel does not go off ), and the simplest & most reliable outboard engine I think exists. Two other points in its favour. It is so small and only has an integral tank, and is quite slow, so you don't try to go 5 miles away from mother vessel, and therefore rowing back in the event of an unlikely failure is no real sweat, even in a rubber ducky. Out cruising, who's in a hurry anyway..? If you want to go further afield, take the mother ship, I say.
Oh, forgot to mention - they are very light, so you won't risk your rotator cuff lifting them on and off the dink.

What about these new Suzuki EFI outboards? It would be nice to not have a carb. Anyone had any experience with these engines? How does the EFI work without a battery?

These engines are about $2100 in the states brand new. I wonder what the extra 25 lbs will do to the stern of my little west marine 310 RIB however.

I switched to a hard dinghy (Great Harbor 10). It wows beautifully with my 8' spoon blade oars and motors pretty well with my Torqeedo. I also have a sailing rig for it that fits into a compact bag. On a longer run I always toss the sailing gear (centerboard, rudder, two part mast and sail) into the boat. That gives me pretty much unlimited range. The boat sails better than it rows.

Either go:
1- sailing/rowing/power dinghy
2- brand new 4 stroke gas
3- old school 2 stroke like an Evinrude 8 hp. Reliable and easy to fix in the field if necessary.
4- buddy system

cardude01 said:

What about these new Suzuki EFI outboards? It would be nice to not have a carb. Anyone had any experience with these engines? How does the EFI work without a battery?

These engines are about $2100 in the states brand new. I wonder what the extra 25 lbs will do to the stern of my little west marine 310 RIB however.

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We have a Suzuki DF-15A; 15 hp and they make a 9.9 and a 20 on the same platform. The battery-less EFI system works on (I think) a magneto (??). So far, had it for a couple years now, and we've been happy.

We DO have the electric start version though, so we have a battery, too. Much easier on frozen shoulder, tennis elbow, rotator cuff issues, wifey can more easily start it, etc.

The extra weight (including the battery) didn't make any difference to the stern of our WB 310. Nor did it make any difference in ease of cranking it up onto our davit system. Nor did it make any difference in balance to the big boat.

The extra weight DOES make a difference in the whole idea of mounting or dismounting the motor, as for seasonal changes, fishing, etc. We bypassed that by buying a trailer, so when we need the dinghy/motor off, we just drive the whole thing over the the ramp, load the boat onto the trailer, done.

-Chris

While I cant say too much bad about Susukis, others have when questioned tho.....

From assistance towers that use them to the boats they tow, to outboard mechanics, to a few private owners.

Yamaha tends to be the favored outboard by a large margin in my circles of boating....but at least Suzuki beats Mercury for popularity....just not sheer numbers seen on the water.

I'm only a poluation of one, but I've had a Suzuki motorcycle (excellent), a Suzuki car (very good), and two Suzuki outboards: first a 2-stroke rebranded to Johnson (worked OK, but we're prone to ethanol issues) and now the DF-15A (seems very good, so far).

All that is coincidental, actually. I wasn't shopping for brand names in any of those cases, just specific features.

-Chris

ranger42c said:

I'm only a poluation of one, but I've had a Suzuki motorcycle (excellent), a Suzuki car (very good), and two Suzuki outboards: first a 2-stroke rebranded to Johnson (worked OK, but we're prone to ethanol issues) and now the DF-15A (seems very good, so far).

All that is coincidental, actually. I wasn't shopping for brand names in any of those cases, just specific features.

-Chris

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I will be the first to admit some manufactures have done better with certain hp ranges than their whole line.

When Ethanol first came out, Yammies choked...they were the worst.

Backing me up was my good friend from Charleston who just brought a new to him deck boat with a 1999 Yammie 150hp. He brought it to Jersey and left it at his girlfriends. In a month, the fuel in the carbs and under cowl filters went bad. Same exact problem with those engines up here in the first few years of ethanol, and first time his engine was left sitting with ethanol in it.

Fortunately newer motors and the learning curve on ethanol around here has been worked out and yammies still rule. But as I said before, just passing along info...my not my own personal use of Suzukis.

That is the advantage to a hard shell dinghy and keeping a set of oars aboard-- having the motor quit isn't a crisis. Most row quite well. I've even taken mine out for a row, just for the exercise.

I know others that simply row their dinghy and keep the motor on it "just in case."

I suspect they aren't going to row that 5 mile trip though but could if they had to. They also aren't rowing an inflatable.

Cardude01

In the English speaking islands of the Eastern Caribbean where it is legal to buy either a 4 stroke or a 2 stroke, 2 strokes outsell the 4 strokes 10 to 1 in the less than 25 hp sizes. These are experienced cruisers who use their dinghies daily.

I keep an anchor and rode in my RIB at all times and make sure I have a charged handheld VHF if I'm going any distance. Where I operate I figure that will keep me safe and facilitate rescue if needed. Also cell phone with charts loaded. Have complete confidence in my Yamaha 2 stroke motor.