I was referring to marinized by themselves or others. I'm not aware of any, but you may be. If so, please share.
Caterpillar engine in Nordhavn 56MS
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I was referring to marinized by themselves or others. I'm not aware of any, but you may be. If so, please share.
twistedtree
Guru
Aren't the C9.3 and C12 also? I don't know, so just asking. The C12 for commercial use starts at 340 hp and is the lowest hp I'm aware of for marine propulsion. C9 starts at 375 hp but is not Tier III compliant.
twistedtree
Guru
At the risk of a detour, why a motor sailor? Why not just a trawler of your chosen brand? An MS strikes me as neither here nor there.
But it's somewhere.
My concern about a motor sailor is the expenses of a trawler and of a sail boat.
Simi 60
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This was my earlier point that you missed.
Many diesel engines are not marinised by the manufacturer, doesnt mean the cant be marinised by other firms and used in boats.
I have seen small marinised under 75hp cats in Australia.
Probably done by Diecon engineering or Zenith engineering.
Simi 60
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Sure, but still sold as cats.
Same as cummins /komatsu
Same as lugger/John Deere.
Beta/kubota
Nanni/Kubota
Vetus/Hyundai
People on various forums swear that lugger are the best engine ever when they don't have a lugger - they have a JD.
Lou_tribal
Guru
You should get an Acadia AD30, 6cyl 100hp. Well wait, I am the only one in this universe to have one oops 
L.
L.
menzies
Guru
Running cost could offset the maintenance costs. And if there is a mechanical breakdown you have your back up right there. Important for many people.
sunchaser
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Yes, this why they acquired Perkins. The Cat Marine 3056 would be a good application in the 56. But why bother given the success of JD/Luger. I know the 3056 well, stout and good marinization.
Woodland Hills
Guru
All the more reason to avoid buying new from them: they're Americans who decided to give jobs to Chinese instead of their own countrymen. Profits may come to one or two folks here, but jobs for our own workers is what America needs, not another clown getting rich offshoring jobs.
twistedtree
Guru
John-o, I assume you would buy one of the existing 56MSs, or were you thinking of building one?
FF
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"Many of those engines are not made by Cat, but rebranded from other mfr's."
Aren't "Luggers" or JD just rebranded Komatsu ?
Aren't "Luggers" or JD just rebranded Komatsu ?
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menzies
Guru
Like "Make American Great Again" caps?
johnrupp
Senior Member
Can you back that JD just rebranded statement? All the JD equipment I've owned the engines were designed and built by JD in one of their 5 plants. Waterloo USA, Torreon Mexico, Saran France, Pune India and Rosario Argentina.
I'm not saying it's wrong but this forum is the only place I've ever heard that.
I have no reason to believe that either. Not saying JD hasn't ever had anyone make anything for them, but they have quite a few manufacturing facilities of their own.
Ski in NC
Technical Guru
I think JD makes all of their marine engines in house. But not 100% certain, some models might be rebranded. The 4045, 6068, 6081 are Deere.
I do know Lugger makes none of their engines. Little ones are Shibaura, mid size Deere, large ones Komatsu. Maybe some others in the mix. But those are good engines, and they do a good job marinizing. Nothing wrong going Lugger. They have been doing this a long time and are well regarded.
There are many instances of rebranding that did not go so well. Mercruiser-Isuzu/VM Motori/International. BMW and VM Motori. Cat is now dabbling in rebranding and us in the business are skeptical. Is this a fling, or a long term marriage? Will Cat still support these rebrands 20yrs down the road???
I do know Lugger makes none of their engines. Little ones are Shibaura, mid size Deere, large ones Komatsu. Maybe some others in the mix. But those are good engines, and they do a good job marinizing. Nothing wrong going Lugger. They have been doing this a long time and are well regarded.
There are many instances of rebranding that did not go so well. Mercruiser-Isuzu/VM Motori/International. BMW and VM Motori. Cat is now dabbling in rebranding and us in the business are skeptical. Is this a fling, or a long term marriage? Will Cat still support these rebrands 20yrs down the road???
No, and I don't think you will find any such experience. All Nordhavn 56MSers were then built with a Lugger (John Deere based) 165 hp engine. This is a fine engine for this boat, but Lugger no longer sells marine engines.
I have noticed that Nordhavn, probably in concert with the change to John Deere engines, is offering higher horsepower engines in all of their model range with the exception of the 52 and 56MS which still shows the Lugger which is probably just laziness in fixing their website.
If you wanted to spring for a new build, Nordhavn would probably install a John Deere 6081 at 235 hp. That is a heavy 8.1 liter engine and would be loafing at hull speed.
Call Nordhavn and discuss which engine would be appropriate for this model, but it won't be a Cat.
David
twistedtree
Guru
The JDs in the range we are talking about are JD designed and built. These include the 4045, 6068, 6081, 6090, 6125, and 6135. JD builds the base engine, and does all the marinization stuff.
Luggers in this range are based off the JD 6068 or 60125. Smaller, including a lot of generators are Shibaura. And some bigger are based off Kamatsu. Lugger starts with the base industrial engine and does their own marinization, including heat exchangers, exhaust manifolds, water pumps, etc. They also derate in some cases such that everything is continuous duty.
Their marinization is outstanding. Top quality everything, easy to service, and very dependable. Deere marinization has had a few warts along the way, but typical of most all vendors. Lugger just seems to get it right more often than not.
I think having a lugger in a boat is a plus in all ways, and never a negative.
Luggers in this range are based off the JD 6068 or 60125. Smaller, including a lot of generators are Shibaura. And some bigger are based off Kamatsu. Lugger starts with the base industrial engine and does their own marinization, including heat exchangers, exhaust manifolds, water pumps, etc. They also derate in some cases such that everything is continuous duty.
Their marinization is outstanding. Top quality everything, easy to service, and very dependable. Deere marinization has had a few warts along the way, but typical of most all vendors. Lugger just seems to get it right more often than not.
I think having a lugger in a boat is a plus in all ways, and never a negative.
twistedtree
Guru
I think a 6068 is more likely. The 6081 isn't available any more, having been replaced by the 6090. But frankly you could probably built it with whatever you want as long as it's tier III.
twistedtree
Guru
I believe there are 9 of them, and always one or more on the market. It never really took off as a model.
Just bought one yesterday for my kid:
"Made in China."
"Embroidered in USA"
I think it's fantastic that you never shop at Walmart, considering it's basically a Chinese products outlet.
FF
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"Profits may come to one or two folks here, but jobs for our own workers is what America needs, not another clown getting rich offshoring jobs."
The problem is boats are low production items , so mass production can not be done.
Much of a boats cost is skilled touch labor, which in the USA is hard to find and expensive to purchase..
Would you be purchasing a new boat at 2X or 3X the current cost?
If so look at the Dutch or German boats for expensive but excellent quality.
"Can you back that JD just rebranded statement? All the JD equipment I've owned the engines were designed and built by JD in one of their 5 plants. Waterloo USA, Torreon Mexico, Saran France, Pune India and Rosario Argentina."
Found on the internet , so you know its "true".
The first John Deere engine that were marinized where Amarine(div of Chicago Bridge i think) this was back in the late 1960's and early 1970's. Next came Lugger(Alaska Diesel and Electric). in the 1970,s the medium size engines were Deere, smaller were IHI from Japan, and later the larger were Komatsu.
Deere started thier own marizination in the early 1970's and has stayed with the lower HP engines.
Deere advantages, heavier, rebuildable, wet sleave engine that you can rebuild time and time again for much less than the dry sleave design. Every Deere engine is run on a dyno before is leaves the factory. It is run and check for HP, Torque, oil pressure, water temp etc.
Cummins, well know, dependable product, dry sleave design. Automotive style block that can be bored and resleaved at your cost or pull the engine and drop in a recon. I have never been able to overhaul one for less than i could get a RECON.
Both engines are good and should last a lone time. If you are going to put a couple of thousand hours and get rid of the boat, go with the cheapest you can buy. If you are going for dependability, I favor the Deere(my opinion). If longevity, thousands of hours, cheaper in the long haul, Deere, hands down.
The problem is boats are low production items , so mass production can not be done.
Much of a boats cost is skilled touch labor, which in the USA is hard to find and expensive to purchase..
Would you be purchasing a new boat at 2X or 3X the current cost?
If so look at the Dutch or German boats for expensive but excellent quality.
"Can you back that JD just rebranded statement? All the JD equipment I've owned the engines were designed and built by JD in one of their 5 plants. Waterloo USA, Torreon Mexico, Saran France, Pune India and Rosario Argentina."
Found on the internet , so you know its "true".
The first John Deere engine that were marinized where Amarine(div of Chicago Bridge i think) this was back in the late 1960's and early 1970's. Next came Lugger(Alaska Diesel and Electric). in the 1970,s the medium size engines were Deere, smaller were IHI from Japan, and later the larger were Komatsu.
Deere started thier own marizination in the early 1970's and has stayed with the lower HP engines.
Deere advantages, heavier, rebuildable, wet sleave engine that you can rebuild time and time again for much less than the dry sleave design. Every Deere engine is run on a dyno before is leaves the factory. It is run and check for HP, Torque, oil pressure, water temp etc.
Cummins, well know, dependable product, dry sleave design. Automotive style block that can be bored and resleaved at your cost or pull the engine and drop in a recon. I have never been able to overhaul one for less than i could get a RECON.
Both engines are good and should last a lone time. If you are going to put a couple of thousand hours and get rid of the boat, go with the cheapest you can buy. If you are going for dependability, I favor the Deere(my opinion). If longevity, thousands of hours, cheaper in the long haul, Deere, hands down.
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sunchaser
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Once over 400 HP or so Deere offerings are scanty for marine applications. Over 600 HP Cummins has similarly faded. In the 50 to 200 HP range, there are many good current choices if one does a bit of sleuthing.
Just yesterday I was in the ER of a Nordhavn 46. Spotless, wet exhaust, twin Yanmars and 26 years old. The owner chuckled when I said "What, no single Deere?"
One constant continues to ring true - smart maintenance oriented owners seem to have good engines.
Just yesterday I was in the ER of a Nordhavn 46. Spotless, wet exhaust, twin Yanmars and 26 years old. The owner chuckled when I said "What, no single Deere?"
One constant continues to ring true - smart maintenance oriented owners seem to have good engines.
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john-o
Veteran Member
First off - my wife and I would sincerely like to thank all of you who responded to our question. We're very impressed with three things on this web site: first, is the kindness of everyone's response, helping us. We've read many web site on various subjects and some of them really knock around folks like us who are not familiar with the products/services and other things in the particular subject matter. Second, your opinions have equipped us both to be better informed and thus, better equipped to ask others questions. Although we don't have all our questions organized before shopping - we're convinced that this 56MS is the choice for us. And third, we were both "welcomed" to this web site regardless of our experience.
Finally, the John Deer has an excellent reputation with the marine community that we've started talking to. In that regard, everyone seemed impressed with the basic questions that we've asked and that content - all thanks to you folks.
We mentioned this forum as a foundation for our questions and value the forum more than I can express here in words. Also, in doing so we hope others will join in and be part of this community.
When we find our Nordhavn 56MS, we'll be back with some pictures and comments.
Thank you
John & Mary Ann Baker
Finally, the John Deer has an excellent reputation with the marine community that we've started talking to. In that regard, everyone seemed impressed with the basic questions that we've asked and that content - all thanks to you folks.
We mentioned this forum as a foundation for our questions and value the forum more than I can express here in words. Also, in doing so we hope others will join in and be part of this community.
When we find our Nordhavn 56MS, we'll be back with some pictures and comments.
Thank you
John & Mary Ann Baker
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