Well, this is unfortunate...

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Peter B said:
Yes, Dave, kudos for your calmness. And yes, it might have paid to drop anchor a bit sooner, but hindsight is great. Now we are all agog as to what the issue turns out to be. The thing against your diagnosis re the low oil pressure is such a low pressure. Even if contaminated with diesel oil, one would still not expect such a huge drop - ie, enough to set off the low pressure alarm. What was the dipstick level..?
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Dipstick was about twice as high as it should have been. So their was a whole lot more volume in the pan. I am completely ignorant about anything mechanical but to me it seems there are only two possibilities, water or fuel. It didn't seem like water so I was guessing fuel. Hard for me to tell but it seemed to me that it smelled like diesel a bit.
 
danderer said:
Well handled Dave.



..though IIRC that boat seems very comfortable on the rocks. You missed another photo-op.
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At one point I could almost have jumped from the swim step to shore and taken another photo.
 
dhays said:
I am curious as well. I have had a 6 months of engine trouble, all starting with a problem of my own making. A short recap;

In January I changed the charger on my engine battery and then forgot about that. A couple weeks later when we next ran the boat the engine was running very rough.

Got a mechanic out to check it out. Three visits, a new lift pump, and 6+ weeks later I gave up on that shop (their Cummins Tech was out on an L&I claim).

Called Cummins Northwest, they replaced the fuel pump actuator, all six injectors, and still the problem persisted (the engine simply ran poorly better than it had before). When the mechanic disconnected the alternator and the problem got a bit better, I finally remembered the charger. When it was disconnected the problem disappeared.

Next time we used the boat it ran better than it has ever run, but after a while it would smoke. Still ran well (not as efficient) and no issues with oil pressure or temps.

Mechanic came back Friday and we took it out for a sea trial and he found that one injector was returning a lot more fuel than it should. He corrected that (he thought the tube that feed the fuel into the side of the injector hadn't seated fully) and being as it was late at this point, we called it good. BTW, he along with every other mechanic on the boat checked the oil each time they were on the boat.

Sunday, no smoke, no problems, until the oil pressure dropped.
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Excuse my bluntness but you may have incorrectly hooked up the batt charger but I do not see anything you did permanently to the engine "problem".
From your description it appears that a Cummins mechanic replaced parts while guessing at a causal problem and installed one or more parts incorrectly and did not pick it up on a test run.
IMHO - let the problem lay with whomever caused it since this is not a situation that is near resolution and the results may be more than you might imagine - hopefully not - but there is not a complete picture here so far.
 
smitty477 said:
Excuse my bluntness but you may have incorrectly hooked up the batt charger but I do not see anything you did permanently to the engine "problem".
From your description it appears that a Cummins mechanic replaced parts while guessing at a causal problem and installed one or more parts incorrectly and did not pick it up on a test run.
IMHO - let the problem lay with whomever caused it since this is not a situation that is near resolution and the results may be more than you might imagine - hopefully not - but there is not a complete picture here so far.
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I think you have characterized it very well. One small difference is that I hooked the charger correctly. There seems to be an issue however with the Balmar Duo Charger with the Cummins electronic engines. Once that charger was removed from the picture, things were fine.

So, all my current problems were created by the mechanic's attempts to find and fix the prior problem. In their defense, I will say that this was a very difficult problem to track down. I also had simply forgotten that I had reconnected that Balmar prior to the engine initially running rough. If I had recalled that, I would have solved the problem myself (which I did anyway) before I had ever called a mechanic.

In general I try to maintain a positive attitude about most things. I will admit though that this is starting to get me down a bit. Thursday the mechanic will be out at the boat again and then hopefully a sea trial on Friday.
 
GEEE WIZZZ Dave - Almost a BIG, BIG Ouch!! But, now you are in position to correct the situation. Hope repair goes smoothly and quickly... inexpensively too!

You did well!! Sorry I'm so late to the "party".

Regarding how coolly you handled things. I felt confident that that coolness is in your nature... from looking closely into the first avatar photo at captain's wheel you had on TF. Pictures really do tell a thousand words.

Best Luck! :thumb: - Art :D
 
Ski in NC;567011.... If injectors were replaced said:
This happened to us after the rebuild last fall. The bleed off pipe wasn't torqued properly at an injector so instead of returning fuel to the tank it was leaking under the rocker arm cover and diluting the oil. Found and fixed the problem then changed the oil. That was 150 plus hours ago and everything seems good.
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Afraid I don't grasp how a remote charger would make the engine run rough. Once its started it doesn't need anything but fuel and air.
 
78puget-trawler said:
Afraid I don't grasp how a remote charger would make the engine run rough. Once its started it doesn't need anything but fuel and air.
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Electronic engines seem to be picky about their batteries and voltage. I recall Tony Athens being very vocal about never letting an engine start battery "talk" to anything else but the engine. In essence, the Balmar Duo Charge was "talking" to the engine and the engine didn't like what it heard.

The mechanic had been told by a more senior tech for truck based Cummins that they had seen a faulty alternator create the same type of problem we were having. We disconnected the alternator while the engine was running and the engine ran better, but still not great. When i disconnected the Balmar Duo Charge the engine ran smooth.

The Duo Charge would charge the engine start battery (which is what is connected to the engine) whenever a charge current was applied to the house bank. The alternator was connected to the house bank and the Duo Charge then charged the start battery. We kept connecting and disconnecting the Duo Charge and it was like magic. Ran like crap with it connected and purred like a kitten with it disconnected.
 
Thanks Dave, I guess with my more primitive Lehman such is unlikely to be a problem. I hope your situation is easily resolved.
 
dhays said:
Thanks. I get just a little sick every time I think about it. <sigh>
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I hope it comes good soon. You`ve had more than your fair share of trouble with the engine.
 
Folks that wonder what is mixed in with their lube oil should take a paper towel , pull the dip stick and look at the circle of dark oil as it grows.

When diesel is mixed with lube oil a wet almost clear ring will expand from the darker lube oil.

Old trick for DD folks that suddenly find there engine is "making" oil.

Water mixed with lube oil will usually present as white foam mixture.
 
​
78puget-trawler said:
Afraid I don't grasp how a remote charger would make the engine run rough. Once its started it doesn't need anything but fuel and air.
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Exactly. It sounds like there was fuel leaking badly into the oil for sure, and the rough running was more likely due to issues with the fuel distribution related to that:confused:, one might suspect, but the charger should not be in any direct connection with the engine, even if it's an electronically controlled engine, as you say.
 
Dave

Why were injectors and injction and or lift pump replaced?
 
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Peter B said:
​

Exactly. It sounds like there was fuel leaking badly into the oil for sure, and the rough running was more likely due to issues with the fuel distribution related to that:confused:, one might suspect, but the charger should not be in any direct connection with the engine, even if it's an electronically controlled engine, as you say.
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I believe that there were a series of Cummins QSB engines produced with electronic control modules were sensitive to RF interference. I know that Balmar is aware of the issue as when we were deciding on equipment for our current boat I had a long talk with one of their engineers on the subject.
He essentially admitted that the issue was in the Balmar equipment and warned me to check with Cummins before adapting any to the boat.
When I asked Cummins, they too were aware of the issue but promised that current production engines utilized better shielding so that there would be no issues.
Remember the injector on a common rail engine is controlled solely the electronic control module. If anything is "upsetting it" all bets are off. This is what Dave ran into.
Bruce
 
dhays said:
Thanks, but not really. I just managed to not completely screw up and was fortunate.

In retrospect, I think I should have dropped the anchor sooner. I should have dropped the anchor at 50-60'. I knew the shore was very steep. I waited until I had about 26' of water which put me too close to shore.
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Good job on keeping your cool.:thumb:
You already know what you could have done slightly better, but

All's Well that Ends Well.:dance:
 
sunchaser said:
Dave

Why were injectors and injction and or lift pump replaced?
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The Duo Charge was causing the engine to throw some odd codes which all related to fuel pressure issues. Pulling the injectors found some injectors that were a bit gummed up. The injector replacement was a Hail Mary attempt at resolving the problem. It wasn't until after that didn't work that we stumbled onto the charger issue.
 
So how does one isolate the starting battery from house and still have backup charging for the start batteries.
 
dhays said:
The Duo Charge was causing the engine to throw some odd codes which all related to fuel pressure issues. Pulling the injectors found some injectors that were a bit gummed up. The injector replacement was a Hail Mary attempt at resolving the problem. It wasn't until after that didn't work that we stumbled onto the charger issue.
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So it's most likely that the injector work is the source of your fuel leak into the oil. Fix that, change the oil, and you should be on your way. Hopefully the people who did the work will acknowledge their workmanship error(s) and fix the problem on their dime, but that would be counter to the Industry norms. Unfortunately my experience is that you pay someone to fix something, as part of that process you pay them to break something, then you pay them to fix what they broke.
 
twistedtree said:
So it's most likely that the injector work is the source of your fuel leak into the oil. Fix that, change the oil, and you should be on your way. Hopefully the people who did the work will acknowledge their workmanship error(s) and fix the problem on their dime, but that would be counter to the Industry norms. Unfortunately my experience is that you pay someone to fix something, as part of that process you pay them to break something, then you pay them to fix what they broke.
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Yup, that is the plan. They acknowledged that the smoking problem I was having was their issue. After Sunday they have also acknowledged that the oil pressure problem is their issue.

So far I have paid them to fix something that didn't needing fixing. While fixing what didn't need to be fixed they broke something else. While fixing what they broke while fixing something that didn't need to be fixed they broke something else yet again.

I'm just hoping they can fix what they broke while fixing what they broke the last time they were fixing what they broke while fixing something that didn't need to be fixed in the first place while trying to fix something else.

Ain't boat ownership fun? :banghead:
 
Are there not groups in your area that do boat work and stand behind it?
 
dhays said:
So far I have paid them to fix something that didn't needing fixing. While fixing what didn't need to be fixed they broke something else. While fixing what they broke while fixing something that didn't need to be fixed they broke something else yet again.

I'm just hoping they can fix what they broke while fixing what they broke the last time they were fixing what they broke while fixing something that didn't need to be fixed in the first place while trying to fix something else.

Ain't boat ownership fun? :banghead:
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I'm going to frame that and hang it outside my ER as a reminder.....
 
dhays said:
Yup, that is the plan. They acknowledged that the smoking problem I was having was their issue. After Sunday they have also acknowledged that the oil pressure problem is their issue.

So far I have paid them to fix something that didn't needing fixing. While fixing what didn't need to be fixed they broke something else. While fixing what they broke while fixing something that didn't need to be fixed they broke something else yet again.

I'm just hoping they can fix what they broke while fixing what they broke the last time they were fixing what they broke while fixing something that didn't need to be fixed in the first place while trying to fix something else.

Ain't boat ownership fun? :banghead:
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Darn, Dave... Reading that... I'm all dizzy now!! :lol: Hope it comes together for you this next time. :thumb: - Art
 
twistedtree said:
I'm going to frame that and hang it outside my ER as a reminder.....
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Yup, good suggestion.

I'm not sure any of us are immune from well intentioned but not quite capable repairmen. The stories each of us have could fill a large shelf I'm sure. Remembering a few years ago when a FB enclosure was finished a week before minor gelcoat repairs turned into frosted Stratglas. yada yada. :eek:
 
sunchaser said:
Are there not groups in your area that do boat work and stand behind it?
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That reminds me of the auto brake repair company who always stood behind their work, but with the car parked facing downhill.
Seriously, one day dhays might share with us his remarkable coping strategies.
 
dhays said:
Yup, that is the plan. They acknowledged that the smoking problem I was having was their issue. After Sunday they have also acknowledged that the oil pressure problem is their issue.

So far I have paid them to fix something that didn't needing fixing. While fixing what didn't need to be fixed they broke something else. While fixing what they broke while fixing something that didn't need to be fixed they broke something else yet again.

I'm just hoping they can fix what they broke while fixing what they broke the last time they were fixing what they broke while fixing something that didn't need to be fixed in the first place while trying to fix something else.

Ain't boat ownership fun? :banghead:
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Well, the good is that they are owning up to their mistakes. The bad is that their competency leaves much to be desired. Now, if you can just get everything fixed, then perhaps find someone else for future work.
 
BruceK said:
That reminds me of the auto brake repair company who always stood behind their work, but with the car parked facing downhill.
Seriously, one day dhays might share with us his remarkable coping strategies.
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I believe that is called "Nature of the Beast". And, in all due, much deserved respect to Dave... that is a heck of a good portion of one's nature to have!
 
dhays said:
Yup, that is the plan. They acknowledged that the smoking problem I was having was their issue. After Sunday they have also acknowledged that the oil pressure problem is their issue.

So far I have paid them to fix something that didn't needing fixing. While fixing what didn't need to be fixed they broke something else. While fixing what they broke while fixing something that didn't need to be fixed they broke something else yet again.

I'm just hoping they can fix what they broke while fixing what they broke the last time they were fixing what they broke while fixing something that didn't need to be fixed in the first place while trying to fix something else.

Ain't boat ownership fun? :banghead:
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And yet there are still some who wonder why those of us who have them, love our simple and reliable old Ford Lehmans so much. :smitten:
 
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