Nitrogen for air in dinghy?

Ok, so my new car uses Nitrogen for air in the tires. Apparently race drivers are now using this in their cars due to the stability of the air pressure. Pressure doesn't change due to tire temperature changes.
I started thinking if anyone has tried this in an inflatable dinghy to prevent all the soft to hard tubes all the time??

Anyone heard of this or would it be too expensive to fill?

Taras said:

Ok, so my new car uses Nitrogen for air in the tires. Apparently race drivers are now using this in their cars due to the stability of the air pressure. Pressure doesn't change due to tire temperature changes.

I started thinking if anyone has tried this in an inflatable dinghy to prevent all the soft to hard tubes all the time??



Anyone heard of this or would it be too expensive to fill?

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Hum, it's been a long time since I learned this stuff, but isn't the pressure of a gas just a simple relationship between volume and temp? I don't recall the type of gas making any difference. Someone must be more current on this than I am......

Nitrogen is already over 70% of the air.

It's got nothing to do with stability and everything to do with moisture. Aircraft use nitrogen because it comes in bottles and is dry. You don't want moisture in a tire you carry to -65 degrees. You also don't want a compressor way out on the ramp for checking tires and nitrogen is also used in hydraulic accumulators. For race cars I would bet it's for the portable bottles and the wish for no moisture. For cars, it's a marketing have, you get to wear a little green button on your tire which makes you cool and trendy. If you spent money for nitrogen, give me a call, I have a really nice bridge for sale...

Greetings,
Mr. T. Air is 78% nitrogen. I suspect that racing tire pressures are somewhat more critical than dinghy pressures or even regular car tires. My personal feeling is filling your car tires with nitrogen is more of a gimmick than anything else. In fact, I think, internal pressure DOES change with temperature just over less of a range with pure nitrogen.

Mr. tt. "...the type of gas making any difference." You could be correct in that. It's been a long time since physical chemistry although I DO remember the prof.- Dinesh Bhatnagar. I can still hear him say "PV=nRT" but have forgotten mostly everything else. Good ole' Dinesh...

Xsbank is right would do you no benefit in a inflatable boat

There is a rule for passenger aircraft using nitrogen in braked wheels to use nitrogen. Not for loss of gas due to seepage or pressure stability with temperature, but simply to be more fire resistant. I would assume the same for race cars.
In car tires, the theory is the big vs small molecule thing; driving seepage loss.

N2 in a dinghy would be a hassle and a waste of time. No gain over plain old air.
Sure would impress someone at the dock though.

Could liquid nitrogen serve a positive usage on our trawlers?

Great ...
Get out of your dinghy and it floats up in the trees.

Greetings,
Mr. mp. "Could liquid nitrogen serve a positive usage on our trawlers?" Other than shrink fitting mechanical parts and keeping ice cream WAY too cold I really can't think of ANY uses aboard. Aside from it's inherent danger (used medically for removing warts, skin lesions etc.) due to it's extreme cold it is VERY difficult to store smaller amounts for any appreciable length of time even in the best Dewar flasks.

Why not use helium then?

I keep a cryogenic chamber aboard in case I croak at sea and maybe can be revived once in port....

Nothing too good for the captain.

But it did bump me over the 10% rule for annual maintenance.

Liquid niitrogen is expensive to keep.

I once considered liquid Oxygen to bring on long dive trips to the islands to pump for nitrox. There are small cryo systems out there. But, the gas keeps seeping out the system; gone in a couple weeks. So, back to 250cf steel bottles.

It's my understanding that whale fart gas is the most desirable of all gasses for inflatables.

I think I'll color my dinghy caps green just to impress people.

The only use I can think of for nitrogen in our wheel house is if you have a keel or a cored deck that is wet. Running nitrogen through it will wix out the moisture. Case in point: Wet telephone cable (usually under a street, buried or no more ducts) put a liquid nitrogen tank on one side of the street and tube it into the cable, a metered valve on the other. Then adjust the regulator and metering valve and let it blow through the cable for a few days-weeks. Will dry it out nicely. This will work on cored decks, hulls or keels.

Capt.Bill11 said:

It's my understanding that whale fart gas is the most desirable of all gasses for inflatables.

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EPA banned it. Global warming problem.

twistedtree said:

Hum, it's been a long time since I learned this stuff, but isn't the pressure of a gas just a simple relationship between volume and temp? I don't recall the type of gas making any difference. Someone must be more current on this than I am......

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As I recall, it was Boyle who thought so. I do carry a large (industrial sized) tank full of helium -- we use it for fishing.

Guys, the only point of using nitrogen in anything you pump up is the absence of oxygen, thereby the material containing it, usually a type of rubber, is less attacked by oxidation, so lasts a bit longer. No other gain, other than no oxygen. No difference in pressure changes due to temp changes, no real flammability benefit - just the slightly longer tyre life. Useful in some situations, eg, of very expensive (read large) tyres. Not much in anything else.

Oxygen molecules, are smaller than nitrogen molecules, so oxygen can escape through a car tire, because there are very small, pores in the rubber. But nitrogen molecules that are larger in size, can not. That's why they use it in racing. Racing causes higher stress, to all materials, and can be compared to a personal vehicle during a longer time. So i believe a rubber dingy could last its pressure, for a longer time. But it is not worth the money, and because living on a trawler, is not anything close to run a marathon, I think using the foot pump won't kill you.

The difference in molecule size is very minimal. Nitrogen has 7 protons, while oxygen has 8 protons. More protons means they pull the electrons closer in making the molecule slightly smaller.

Atmospheric air is about 79% nitrogen anyway. Paying extra to make the other 21% of the molecules slightly larger doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

No it doesn't, but as I said before, in racing it does.

AusCan said:

The difference in molecule size is very minimal. Nitrogen has 7 protons, while oxygen has 8 protons. More protons means they pull the electrons closer in making the molecule slightly smaller.

Atmospheric air is about 79% nitrogen anyway. Paying extra to make the other 21% of the molecules slightly larger doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

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But that slightly smaller diameter is enough to make O2 permeate rubber about 4x faster than does N2. Even so, not worth paying for in an automobile tire, racing or otherwise, let alone in a dinghy.

Costco, at no charge, uses nitrogen. I no longer have to add air to my tires. I check em but no air needed. Just an observation.

I thought w lighter than air filling we'd see some flying dinghy's.

Another reason that nitrogen is used is the molecules are larger than oxygen, thus tires tend to leak less with nitrogen and the pressure stays stable.

Lots of people filter air to get get higher O2 % for medical or diving purposes. I know some ceramic filters are out there taking advantage of molecule size differences.

Oxygen-Enriched Air - Membrane Technology and Research, Inc.

All this dingy talk seems odd, with respect to gasses. Either keep the dink in the water during the day and/or add more air in the am.

Perhaps racing tires, intended for one use, are particularly lightly made for weight saving and nitrogen might inhibit the permeation... plus, nitrogen bottles are very high pressure, filling an aircraft tire that needs 250 pounds would take forever with a compressor.

Putting nitrogen in a tire for fire suppression is specious because aircraft tire fires combust on the outside and can spread to other systems before the tire plugs let go and squirt a bit of nitrogen into the atmosphere. The tire plugs are intended to prevent tire explosions endangering firefighters.

By the way, Boyle's Law works on all gasses.

You guys are cracking me up!!
Love all the comments.
I still think a dink with nitrogen will hold its pressure much longer....just maybe not that practical to get.
Love the whale farts comment....great to laugh first thing in the morning ?

Xsbank said:

Perhaps racing tires, intended for one use, are particularly lightly made for weight saving and nitrogen might inhibit the permeation... plus, nitrogen bottles are very high pressure, filling an aircraft tire that needs 250 pounds would take forever with a compressor.

Putting nitrogen in a tire for fire suppression is specious because aircraft tire fires combust on the outside and can spread to other systems before the tire plugs let go and squirt a bit of nitrogen into the atmosphere. The tire plugs are intended to prevent tire explosions endangering firefighters.

By the way, Boyle's Law works on all gasses.

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I was trying to guess the FAA motive here as eliminating an internal tire fire, which of course would cause it to blow.