8 Knots - Are you kidding?

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Seevee said:
Ksanders,

The fuel cost vs purchase price depends......

If the cheaper MY is cruising faster and getting 1 nmpg, which is common vs. the more economical more expensive trawler getting 2 nmpg, one could spend $150K more for the trawler with the economy for a loop trip (6000 mi) and break even. (value of money at 5%).

But if it's a marina condo, going out once a month, fuel is a non issue.

And for a passage maker crossing oceans, fuel could make a HUGE difference.

I'd bet that the majority of us don't travel 6000 mi a year, and probably way less than half of that. So one needs to look at the usage. Also, if money is an issue a single is cheap, but not by huge amounts.
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On our Krogen 42, 2 nm per gallon would be full out cruise speed. At our normal 6.5 kts we get 4 nmpg.
 
smitty477 said:
Dani-lu said:
So, where are we? I am leaning towards a semi-displacement, with a good sized ER. I want 2 heads, preferably separate standup showers in each, but I would compromise with only one separate standup shower. This is the set up we currently have on our boat and it works fine, even when we have guests overnighting. I would prefer a raised pilot house, with side doors for easy exit to assist with lines when needed. We want an island master bed, something we don't have now. Other considerations - one or two engines? I am not a fan of an aft cabin where the cockpit is raised. I like the cockpit at water level, with easy access to the swim platform. Well, where do I go from here? What boats should I be researching? I am thinking 43 to 50', and controlling price with age of boat. Price is kind of up in the air, but I would think at least $300k, with room to go up if I fall in love with the perfect boat, a Unicorn.

Thanks again for all the input.

Hello Jeff,
We sold our 47 Bayliner Pilothouse last year for half that amount of money and I believe it hits everything on your list pretty well. It was our third Bayliner Pilothouse as we owned two 45 version before the last 47 version. Our initial shopping list was similar to yours and it also included: shallow draft. air clearance for the loop, sleeps 6+, good range, good tankage, and a place to carry a reasonable RIB.
Perhaps something like that would fit....
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smitty477 said:
Dani-lu said:
So, where are we? I am leaning towards a semi-displacement, with a good sized ER. I want 2 heads, preferably separate standup showers in each, but I would compromise with only one separate standup shower. This is the set up we currently have on our boat and it works fine, even when we have guests overnighting. I would prefer a raised pilot house, with side doors for easy exit to assist with lines when needed. We want an island master bed, something we don't have now. Other considerations - one or two engines? I am not a fan of an aft cabin where the cockpit is raised. I like the cockpit at water level, with easy access to the swim platform. Well, where do I go from here? What boats should I be researching? I am thinking 43 to 50', and controlling price with age of boat. Price is kind of up in the air, but I would think at least $300k, with room to go up if I fall in love with the perfect boat, a Unicorn.

Thanks again for all the input.

Hello Jeff,
We sold our 47 Bayliner Pilothouse last year for half that amount of money and I believe it hits everything on your list pretty well. It was our third Bayliner Pilothouse as we owned two 45 version before the last 47 version. Our initial shopping list was similar to yours and it also included: shallow draft. air clearance for the loop, sleeps 6+, good range, good tankage, and a place to carry a reasonable RIB.
Perhaps something like that would fit....
Click to expand...



Smitty,

No insult intended, but Bayliners have a bad rap in my neck of the woods. But. I have heard some good things about the larger Bayliners like the ones you mention. It is definitely worthwhile researching. The negative I have heard about the express cruisers, is they tend to be a lot lighter than other brand boats of same size. So they tend to get tossed around more in rough seas and a lot more pounding. I have been on a friend's 35' Bayliner (lost in Sandy) and now his 35' Sea Ray and my friend says the Bayliner bow had no weight to it and made docking with a cross wind a nightmare. He also said the Sea Ray was a lot more comfortable in rough water.

I will add the Bayliners you mention to my research list.

Thanks,

Jeff
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Crusty Chief said:
Jeff,

If its any consolation, if you spend enough time on the boat, you'll always want a "bit more" .
Last year was 171 days of cruising, with almost 40 days before and another 30 days after. Another 50 days during the winter getting ready for this years cruise.
This years trip so far is kinda the same as last year, just a bit farther north.

We also at times would love more speed occasionally. But really enjoy a great fuel burn rate of less than 3 gals an hour including Hurricane heater and generator use.

Take into consideration how much you will actually use the boat for cruising.

Cruising with ASD this year as much as we are, two totally different boats, yet we are enjoying the cruise. They have more living space onboard and they can kick up the Kitty Cats if needed and get somewhere rather quickly. We on the other hand max out at 10-11 knots and the fuel burn for those few precious knots is ridiculous.
Good luck on your hunt, but above all else, use the darn thing and you'll enjoy it even more.

Cheers, John
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We do 100 hours a season now, and I am still working full time. We definitely plan to use the heck out of our retirement boat!
 
Bay Pelican said:
On our Krogen 42, 2 nm per gallon would be full out cruise speed. At our normal 6.5 kts we get 4 nmpg.
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I have to say I love the look and layout of most of the Krogens. I have even been talking to a gal about going to see a few in Virginia. Just don't know if we can handle the 8kt cruise, all the time. I could see us running 8kts and less on most legs of the ICW or ocean from NY to Florida, but I like knowing I can get up and go if I need to. I guess I am not a sailor, rather a motor boater. But, my wife and I may change our minds. I like the look of a Marlow and Fleming too. I just think my eyes may not be connected to my bank account.
 
ranger42c said:
Don't think I'd hesitate to take a 430 or your 400 out in the ocean... at least as far out as I'd want to go, and with attention to impending weather and so forth. Times crossing to the islands, etc., wouldn't seem to difficult...



The original owner of our previous Mainship -- the older 34' model -- routinely went offshore, tuna fishing...



I think all those boats would take more than my crew and I can.



And without criticizing Benetaeu, I've heard from owners and charterers that those are mostly just French-built Sea Rays, Carvers, Silvertons, Cruisers, etc... nice boats, but no better, no worse than any of those other Chevies or Fords. That's not from personal observation, though...



-Chris
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I have heard the same of Benetau. I looked at the weight of the 40 something Benetau, and I think it weighed less than my 41 Sea Ray.
 
Group9 said:
I love traveling at 8 knots. The journey is a bigger part of the trip than the destination for us.:)

And, our boat will go a lot faster than that.
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I have a feeling I can get used to 8kts. But, I like knowing I can run a bit faster in a strong current or to out run some weather. I guess this reads Semi-displacement.
 
Dani-lu said:
smitty477 said:
Smitty,

No insult intended, but Bayliners have a bad rap in my neck of the woods. But. I have heard some good things about the larger Bayliners like the ones you mention. It is definitely worthwhile researching. The negative I have heard about the express cruisers, is they tend to be a lot lighter than other brand boats of same size. So they tend to get tossed around more in rough seas and a lot more pounding. I have been on a friend's 35' Bayliner (lost in Sandy) and now his 35' Sea Ray and my friend says the Bayliner bow had no weight to it and made docking with a cross wind a nightmare. He also said the Sea Ray was a lot more comfortable in rough water.

I will add the Bayliners you mention to my research list.

Thanks,

Jeff
Click to expand...

No problem - we are used to hearing that over the years. We traveled for many years with a paper cruising club that was about 40 boats strong- most of them were Sea Rays. We did a lot of cruising 'loops' of between 100- and 250 miles with these Sea Rays: 31, 33, 37, 38, 40, 45, 46, 48 and a 62 to name some of them. Not sure what you mean by rough seas but none of these boats are really great in really rough seas - the 4788 weighs in at about #35,000 with a half load but its not a great rough water boat by design. The roughest we have been in (not by choice) was about 12" with tight spacing and green water coming up over the bow - the boat did much better than we did. Over the years I did get a chance to work on and fix a bunch of those Sea Rays during our travels.....

Click to expand...
 
smitty477 said:
Dani-lu said:
No problem - we are used to hearing that over the years. We traveled for many years with a paper cruising club that was about 40 boats strong- most of them were Sea Rays. We did a lot of cruising 'loops' of between 100- and 250 miles with these Sea Rays: 31, 33, 37, 38, 40, 45, 46, 48 and a 62 to name some of them. Not sure what you mean by rough seas but none of these boats are really great in really rough seas - the 4788 weighs in at about #35,000 with a half load but its not a great rough water boat by design. The roughest we have been in (not by choice) was about 12" with tight spacing and green water coming up over the bow - the boat did much better than we did. Over the years I did get a chance to work on and fix a bunch of those Sea Rays during our travels.....

Click to expand...



I do not consider my Sea Ray a good rough water boat. The biggest I have ben in is 6 to 8's and it was not fun. If I see anything more than 2's to 3's I stay inside, unless of course it is a favorable wind (i.e. North wind and we are running on the south shore). Sea rays are built for coastal and bay pleasure cruising. They are great over priced comfortable pleasure boats. They are not In the same league as a quality trawler.
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Dani-lu said:
Todd,

No I have not considered a Saberline, but now I will add it to my list to research.

Thanks,

Jeff
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Jeff
POACH is a 1994 Sabreline 36 Fast Trawler with twin 300 Cats. It's a tri-cabin. It is very comfortable at 8-9kt, but it's nice to be able to make a speed run at 16+ when I need to. I think Sabre made the model up to the early 2000s. The fuel consumption I pay attention to when I need to run fast, is what is the mpg sweetspot. The fuel curve for the boat is very interesting.
 
Dani-lu said:
smitty477 said:
Smitty,

No insult intended, but Bayliners have a bad rap in my neck of the woods. But. I have heard some good things about the larger Bayliners like the ones you mention. It is definitely worthwhile researching. The negative I have heard about the express cruisers, is they tend to be a lot lighter than other brand boats of same size. So they tend to get tossed around more in rough seas and a lot more pounding. I have been on a friend's 35' Bayliner (lost in Sandy) and now his 35' Sea Ray and my friend says the Bayliner bow had no weight to it and made docking with a cross wind a nightmare. He also said the Sea Ray was a lot more comfortable in rough water.

I will add the Bayliners you mention to my research list.

Thanks,

Jeff
Click to expand...

No insult intended, but talk to owners of Bayliners on this forum before forming an opinion based on random thoughts of those who haven't. We're not talking express models but pilothouse models. More boat for the money than nearly anything you can imagine. There was a thread here some time back and we tried to find a single Bayliner owner here who felt negatively. We couldn't do it. The Bayliner pilothouse models built in Arlington, WA were well built boats and have stood the test of time. Definitely research them more.
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Dani-lu said:
I have to say I love the look and layout of most of the Krogens. I have even been talking to a gal about going to see a few in Virginia. Just don't know if we can handle the 8kt cruise, all the time. I could see us running 8kts and less on most legs of the ICW or ocean from NY to Florida, but I like knowing I can get up and go if I need to. I guess I am not a sailor, rather a motor boater. But, my wife and I may change our minds. I like the look of a Marlow and Fleming too. I just think my eyes may not be connected to my bank account.
Click to expand...
I guess that someone such as I didn't buy a Krogen to get from point A to point B so I can understand the concern you would have. But our cruising at 6 or 7 kts has taken us on just about every waterway/canal in the United States and Canada east of the Mississippi with the exception of Lake Superior and parts of the Ohio, and Cumberland (by choice). Many of our fondest memories arose from places we would have skipped over if we had hurried by.
 
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Courtesy expressed at every passing if we all traveled at 8 knots.
Fuel consumption would be less than half.
Cruisers would begin to appreciate all the sights they pass as they would have time to see them.
Cussing on the radio would become nonexistent.
But what the hell. We have places to go. [emoji23]
 
"for easy engine access avoid V style engines. Inline sixes run smooth and usually provide better hull side access."

More modern V engines may only have a 10deg V , so a new V6 is very narrow , EZ to work on and has the lack of vibration desired by all.
 
Funny think about the concept that some boats are better than others. In terms of hull shape there are differences that make for handling differences but in decades of boating. North east, south east and coastal SF. I have docked or rafted with so many different brands that after a while I couldn't distinguish much in the way of owner satisfaction.
 
We have made the "crossing" from Dog Island to Tarpon several times as part of a flotilla. After looking at all the different boats in exactly the same conditions as us, I have yet to see one that I wanted to trade places with. I am sure they all said the same thing.

Most of them were Loopers with 5 or 6 thousand miles under their belts and were comfortable with their boats, as I am now with mine. So while some might 'ride' better, it is more how well you know your boat than the boat itself. (within reason of course).
 
dimer2 said:
We have made the "crossing" from Dog Island to Tarpon several times as part of a flotilla. After looking at all the different boats in exactly the same conditions as us, I have yet to see one that I wanted to trade places with. I am sure they all said the same thing.

Most of them were Loopers with 5 or 6 thousand miles under their belts and were comfortable with their boats, as I am now with mine. So while some might 'ride' better, it is more how well you know your boat than the boat itself. (within reason of course).
Click to expand...

I admit to prejudice as I have tremendous respect and admiration for the founder of Bayliner. However, I don't think there is even today a boat that meets it's purpose better than the Bayliner Pilothouse models did and the quality of those boats has stood the test of time. I see the Beneteau Swift Trawler as targeting that market now and doing a pretty good job. I see the various tug lines going after the same customer. There are some nice boats in that range but none do better at space utilization.

Bayliner's name gets trashed sometimes based on their entry level runabouts. However, those changed the entire pricing structure at the lower end of the market, shook Sea Ray and Mercury Marine up so bad, Brunswick had to buy them. They were sold to new boaters, abused and yes, many of them ended up in bad condition ultimately. But the cruisers, the Pilothouse models were much different boats, built in a different place and very well done. Too bad that facility is now converted to other uses. That would have been the ideal work force to restart a boat line with.
 
Dani-lu said:
I have a feeling I can get used to 8kts. But, I like knowing I can run a bit faster in a strong current or to out run some weather. I guess this reads Semi-displacement.
Click to expand...

And, that's the good part. Enjoying 8 knots most of the time, but being able to go faster if you really need to. But, we're retired, so we don't really need to very often. :)

I always figure that the guys going 20 knots up the ICW just don't have that much time to enjoy on the water and are trying to make up for that lack of time with more speed.
 
Group9 said:
And, that's the good part. Enjoying 8 knots most of the time, but being able to go faster if you really need to. But, we're retired, so we don't really need to very often. :)

I always figure that the guys going 20 knots up the ICW just don't have that much time to enjoy on the water and are trying to make up for that lack of time with more speed.
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Wifey B: I can enjoy things quickly and with speed and gives more time to enjoy more things on shore. I've never gone 8 knots. That's idle. :eek:

Today I'll soon be going between 450 and 500 knots, but it won't be enjoyable. However, the destination will be. Yes, we're actually going somewhere on a plane. :blush:
 
Feel we have the best that could be asked for regarding comfortable, relatively small sized "boat-world"... i.e. our 34' Tolly!


We love piddling along at 6 to 7 knots. Very pleasant, quiet and quite economical. We also enjoy planing at at 17 knots. Still very pleasant, fairly quiet, not so economical; but not too bad $$ wise. When in extended 5 mph zones, I shut down one engine. That too is pleasant, and very economical... at a whisper of engine sound. Then there is always WOT that offers some small thrill to have our really well appointed tri cabin Tollycraft doing high plane at 22 knots. However, the words affordable and quiet therein no longer apply to our boating lexicon.
 
Art said:
Feel we have the best that could be asked for regarding comfortable, relatively small sized "boat-world"... i.e. our 34' Tolly!


We love piddling along at 6 to 7 knots. Very pleasant, quiet and quite economical. We also enjoy planing at at 17 knots. Still very pleasant, fairly quiet, not so economical; but not too bad $$ wise. When in extended 5 mph zones, I shut down one engine. That too is pleasant, and very economical... at a whisper of engine sound. Then there is always WOT that offers some small thrill to have our really well appointed tri cabin Tollycraft doing high plane at 22 knots. However, the words affordable and quiet therein no longer apply to our boating lexicon.
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I was thinking about doing the same, but I worry about causing damage. How did you find out if running on one engine could cause problems in the long run?
 
Steve91T said:
I was thinking about doing the same, but I worry about causing damage. How did you find out if running on one engine could cause problems in the long run?
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You ask the maker of your marine transmission if it can freewheel and for how long.
 
BandB said:
Wifey B: I can enjoy things quickly and with speed and gives more time to enjoy more things on shore. I've never gone 8 knots. That's idle. :eek:

Today I'll soon be going between 450 and 500 knots, but it won't be enjoyable. However, the destination will be. Yes, we're actually going somewhere on a plane. :blush:
Click to expand...

That reminds me of everytime I get asked how long it takes us to get to the Bahamas from our home port. When I say, six to eight weeks usually, the response is often, "Can't you do it any faster than that?" I reply, "Sure, if I want to take the fun out if it". :)
 
Steve91T said:
I was thinking about doing the same, but I worry about causing damage. How did you find out if running on one engine could cause problems in the long run?
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Per factory input, our Borg Warner Velvet Drive trany can withstand free wheel rotation. In addition to keeping it at slow speed for sake of the trany I also switch engines running time about every 30 to 45 minutes. Can't be too careful IMO.


Check with your trany mfg to see if free wheeling in OK.
 
BandB said:
Wifey B: I can enjoy things quickly and with speed and gives more time to enjoy more things on shore.
Click to expand...

I can enjoy things quickly and with speed and give me more time to do other things as well. My wife isn't terribly satisfied with that however. :socool:
 
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