FL 120 leaking water pump - need advice

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Fotoman

Fotoman

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Joined
Nov 12, 2009
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649
I just noticed that my water pump is leaking when the engine is running. It's approx a drip every second. Not super familiar with the insides of this component but I assume it must be a worn out seal?
Is it a critical issue or can I keep using the boat for a little while until I can fix it?
Indicated on the picture when the drip is coming from.
IMG_2291.JPG
 
Fotoman said:
I just noticed that my water pump is leaking when the engine is running. It's approx a drip every second. Not super familiar with the insides of this component but I assume it must be a worn out seal?
Is it a critical issue or can I keep using the boat for a little while until I can fix it?
Indicated on the picture when the drip is coming from.
View attachment 65989
Click to expand...

Sounds like the seal. Yes you can just keep using it while keeping an eye on it.

If you have room you can put a plastic tub under it to catch the drips. :D
 
Capt.Bill11 said:
Sounds like the seal. Yes you can just keep using it while keeping an eye on it.

If you have room you can put a plastic tub under it to catch the drips. :D
Click to expand...

Pretty risky IMHO. A drip a second is not slow. I've seen them go from a drip to pour in less than a week. You never know.

RW pumps are normal wear points and one should be ready to change out when they start weeping. And, have a spare onboard ready to go at the first sign of a leak.
 
Greetings,
Mr. F. IF you will eventually replace rather than repair the current pump, I would suggest buying the upgraded pump available from American Diesel. I think there's a thread somewhere describing the advantages and differences of the new vs the old style pumps...
 
I just did the same to my 120 last year. Raw water pump was starting to drip and was the old style. Cost a few bucks but I got a complete new unit including gear, upgraded it to a new style which is more robust and easier to service. I actually got mine from Fredwarner1.net for about $550, complete unit. I've bought oil coolers, heat exchangers, and starters from him as well. Online ordering is easier and faster then American Diesel.

Ford Lehman 120 & 80 Raw Water Pump 2C45 D-365 Marine Diesel Engine 2715E 2712E
 
sunchaser said:
Pretty risky IMHO. A drip a second is not slow. I've seen them go from a drip to pour in less than a week. You never know.

RW pumps are normal wear points and one should be ready to change out when they start weeping. And, have a spare onboard ready to go at the first sign of a leak.
Click to expand...

And that's why I said to keep an eye on it. :D

I can't recall ever seeing a leaking pump shaft seal go from dripping to flooding over night.

If he wants to use the boat for a few more hours while say waiting in a replacement pump, I don't think it would be a big deal. Especially if it's only leaking while underway.

If it does start leaking faster than you're comfortable with, just park it and close the seacock till you install the new or rebuild the old pump.

But in the end you just have to do what you're comfortable with.
 
Just redid ours.

It went from working fine with no signs of problems to failed bearing and wobbling pulley 22 hours into a 24 hour run.
Thankfully it held together to get us around a headland and into a secure anchorage late in the evening.

My advice, get it sorted now if in an easy location to get repairs.
 
Thaaks for the input! Spending $500 on a new pump is not an option right now. So what is the likely issue with my actual pump and how do I fix it? Is it something I can do myself?
 
Fotoman said:
Thaaks for the input! Spending $500 on a new pump is not an option right now. So what is the likely issue with my actual pump and how do I fix it? Is it something I can do myself?
Click to expand...

Do I see a paper towel wrapped around a different leak in your picture?

On this past Spring's to-do list was a rebuild of my two non leaking 14 year old 2400 hour Jabsco raw water pumps. The rebuild parts alone were about 60% the cost of a new pump. I elected to go new.

My point - if you can't afford a new pump, you can't afford the cost of a rebuild.
 
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I've never had good luck rebuilding water pumps my self. They sometimes leak after a rebuild or start to leak within a few 100 hours.

For rebuilding you'll need a press plus all the parts.

If the shaft is at all pitted/worn the only option maybe a new or rebuilt pump.
 
Just a quick tip. These pumps often come in an upside down or backwards (for lack of better terms) configuration. Be sure to turn the pump 180 degrees such that it is sucking raw water rather than blowing bubbles thru the raw water intake. I speak from experience.
I also got my pump from Fredwarner. Highly reccommend.
Good luck.
 
I considered a rebuild for mine when I ended up getting the new one from FredWarner, but I believe some parts such as the shaft are no longer available. With that said, a full rebuild isn't doable. One could do the seals and bearings but without a shaft it's liable to leak again..
 
waddenkruiser said:
Complete rebuild incl. parts and getting the pump in and out was around 200 by a mechanics here in Europe.
Click to expand...

Lucky you.
Complete rebuild in Australia cost me $750 and I did the remove and refit.
 
Finally was able to reach Brian at AD yesterday (the phone is always busy when I call for some reason). My pump is the Lehman 2C45 pump (Jabsco 5850-0001). Turns out there are two options: a rebuild kit that cost $60 that will work only if the shaft or gears are not damaged or a new model of pump that costs $500 (as other have pointed out earlier). So I will take the pump apart and inspect it. Hopefully I can get away with the rebuild kit for this season. ;-)
 
Why not go electric? Engine running, pump running. Engine stops, pump stops. I would also run the oil and transmission coolers with coolant not raw water and I would probably cut off the shaft hose too. You do need raw water for your exhaust. At trawler speeds you are probably only using half the horsepower so not a huge heat issue. That's what I would do, the engine is stone age and better for it but the ancilliaries can be modernized. Don't forget to clean the coolers if you go for coolant cooling.

Tons of these on the web: https://www.ms-motorservice.com/en/...ating-to-the-engine/electrical-coolant-pumps/
 
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Thats an interesting idea, I'm intrigued and like the concept. I just realced both the oil and trans cooler in the last year, it'd be a good time to swap them over to the fresh water side...

Xsbank said:
Why not go electric? Engine running, pump running. Engine stops, pump stops. I would also run the oil and transmission coolers with coolant not raw water and I would probably cut off the shaft hose too. You do need raw water for your exhaust. At trawler speeds you are probably only using half the horsepower so not a huge heat issue. That's what I would do, the engine is stone age and better for it but the ancilliaries can be modernized. Don't forget to clean the coolers if you go for coolant cooling.

Tons of these on the web: https://www.ms-motorservice.com/en/...ating-to-the-engine/electrical-coolant-pumps/
Click to expand...
 
Avalanche said:
Thats an interesting idea, I'm intrigued and like the concept. I just realced both the oil and trans cooler in the last year, it'd be a good time to swap them over to the fresh water side...
Click to expand...

It does work. I had it on gensets.

Just be aware that in many cases the types of pumps you use to get the best impeller life might not be self priming.
 
Xsbank said:
I would also run the oil and transmission coolers with coolant not raw water
Click to expand...

My transmissions run at 120 F max with raw water. Why would I want to raise the temperatures to 160 F+ by using coolant?

Engine driven raw water pumps speed up and slow down as engine RPM varies. This provides a great way to balance water needs to fuel burn and heat generated.

Sorry XS, but I see nothing but problems running an electric drive raw water pump for our trusty small diesels that with decent preventative maintenance work just fine as is.
 
My Cummins is keel cooled and the transmission and oil coolers work just fine on coolant. Why would yours be any different?

The variable speed is immaterial, you have thermostats.

160 degrees F is well below the operating parameters of your transmission, as per your manual.

You will also get unlimited life out of your coolers and you will never have to change another impeller.

I think its a no-brainer but I also agree that if you are prepared to do all that maintenance and change zincs and flush the coolers, you will live happily ever after, if a bit poorer...

I don't need an electric pump as I am now keel cooled. Fortunately, I do not have a stone-aged raw water cooler pump pumping salt water through all those expensive bits... 8^)
 
Xsbank said:
I think its a no-brainer but I also agree that if you are prepared to do all that maintenance and change zincs and flush the coolers, you will live happily ever after, if a bit poorer... QUOTE]

XS

I never found Fenstrum keel coolers to be maintenance free. Quite the opposite. What type do you have? I'm lucky, no zincs in HXers. In the PNW waters we've found the coolant side to build up more gunk in the HXers than the raw water side.

A dry stack setup versus a "standard" wet exhaust setup is an interesting comparison. A few weeks ago in Anacortes I was looking at two Nordhavns with wet exhaust systems, models that normally would be found with dry stacks. The owner's extolled their virtues vs previous dry stack they had previously owned. Different strokes.
Click to expand...
 
With a little mechanical skill you can rebuild your pump. You can press the shaft out with and arbor press, available on line and discount tool stores. In a pinch you can use a big C clamp, sockets and some wood blocks. I rebuild all of my pumps, coolant and salt water for my Detroit mains, Perkins and Cummings generators. New seals and bearings can be bought online or from a good bearing supply. Internal parts are identified by embedded part numbers or measurements. Almost all roller bearings have a stamped in number and bushings come in standard sizes. Seals are identified by internal and outside size and the material. It's not rocket science.
I have a complete set of spares. Some acquired from people throwing away perfectly good pumps needing a new seal.
 
My keel cooler is built right into the keel, not a separate device on the bottom. I have an aluminum boat. I did drain all the fluid out of it (took a glycol bath, not recommended) and replaced it once, did it again a year or two later and filtered it. Its not difficult, just messy. There is also an on-engine coolant filter which I change regularly, but all Cummins have those.
 
Xsbank said:
I am now keel cooled. Fortunately, I do not have a stone-aged raw water cooler pump pumping salt water through all those expensive bits... 8^)
Click to expand...

A mate has an NTA855m Cummins, same as mine in his boat.
He is keel cooled, I am not.
He spends a small fortune on coolant as there is several hundred litres of it.
I spend about $100 as I have about 50 litres
 
Simi 60 said:
A mate has an NTA855m Cummins, same as mine in his boat.
He is keel cooled, I am not.
He spends a small fortune on coolant as there is several hundred litres of it.
I spend about $100 as I have about 50 litres
Click to expand...



I mean why would he be changing his coolant a lot?
 
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I have changed the coolant once. I don't expect to do it again for probably 5 more years. Additives keep it working. My coolers don't even get looked at, no corrosion at all.

I think, with respect, some of you should open your minds a bit...
 
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