Perkins 6.354 Contra rotating water pump

I have a 1979 Mainship MK1, Perkins 6.354.
What I know for sure: My engine is not an "X" in SN. Engine rotates CW from rear, CCW from front so it IS a contra rotating.
Just rebuilt my FW pump with a kit for a MF, Sparex S.40048(http://v2.us.sparex.com/ItemDetails/ItemDetails.aspx?ItemNumber=40048&OriginalItemNumber=&CurrentTab=ManufacturerPartNumbers)
It all works except impellor(fins wrong angle). Note that the old impellor was loose on the new shaft, required .002" interference fit so I had to sleeve and rebore the impellor.My plan in the fall is to remove the pump again, disassemble, and see if a local foundry can cast the housing and impellor.I also plan to try and slice off the impellor fins, flip them and braze them on, to see if its feasible.

Who would like to purchase raw casting of a case and (maybe) impellor if I can get it done? Not looking to get rich but figured there may be a need and there is economy if multiple made in a run.

Please leave a name/contact info so I can determine how many I could ask to have made.

I will post updates as I proceed with this.

Anyone on another group please feel free to repost but want to keep list here.

If you want to tell me this is not possible, waste of time etc then you obviously are not in need so keep it to yourself. I would pay $500 for a good casing and impellor right now so figure there has got to be others in same boat (not basing price on this just sayin)

Main goal is to have a good rebuilt spare pump.

Thanks in advance,
Mike G

This is the pump I have, note in last pic the spared impeller is on the left.

MGardner we replaced our 6-354 CR'ing pump with a reman one from TAD. MUCH easier than what you're proposing! If I recall it was like $2-300 with exchange... it was an easy replacement.
Shawn

Thanks but TAD Only takes yours for rebuild ie you send to them, they send to jobber, they send back when done. I called them last month. They have no cores left.I am not willing to send my only, rare pump away.
I would like a spare, you got one you would part with? When did you do this?

Sorry for "necroposting", but mgardner, did you ever have any luck finding/creating spare contra rotating coolant pumps? I've got twin 6.354s, both contra (I know, go figure).

K

I just ordered a conter rotating perkins coolant pump for my engine from this site:

https://www.parts4engines.com/perkins-6-354-water-pumps/

Option B appears to be the correct pump for us, I'll try and report back my results. I was about $160 with shipping. Mine is not leaking but I wanted to have a spare ready to go.

Gdavid,Great find! Please report back your opinions.

Why do you believe that pump is for the contrarotating version of the engine?

Not saying it isn't. I just don't see that written there and that would be an odd thing not to be bold face and flashing? Or am I looking out of phase and missing it?

STB said:

Why do you believe that pump is for the contrarotating version of the engine?

Not saying it isn't. I just don't see that written there and that would be an odd thing not to be bold face and flashing? Or am I looking out of phase and missing it?

Click to expand...

Actually, I'm pretty sure I got it wrong.

This thread has some pictures of the two castings and there is a suble difference you can see. I'm pretty sure I did order a pump for the standard rotation and the contra-rotation was not an option.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums...reverse-rotation-fresh-water-pump-7959-2.html

Gdavid said:

Actually, I'm pretty sure I got it wrong.

This thread has some pictures of the two castings and there is a suble difference you can see. I'm pretty sure I did order a pump for the standard rotation and the contra-rotation was not an option.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums...reverse-rotation-fresh-water-pump-7959-2.html

Click to expand...

The contrarotating option, to knowledge, has not been an option for decades. There's been a lot of talk of sand casting or adapting one over the years...but no one has ever done it.

As far as I know those pumps and the shaft coupling (used on both versions) are the two parts one can no longer get.

Also, sorry about that! At least they are rebuildable!

STB said:

Also, sorry about that! At least they are rebuildable!

Click to expand...

Any suggestions as who rebuilds these aside from TAD? Curious if we ever need a rebuild.

Dwk said:

Any suggestions as who rebuilds these aside from TAD? Curious if we ever need a rebuild.

Click to expand...

I trust TAD but am nervous about shipping my irreplaceable part off to them, I've had too many delivery adventures in the last couple of years. I honestly may drive it down next fall.

In addition to TAD...

S&W Diesel in Wilmington (Los Angeles area, 310-835-3155). They are another legacy Perkins specialist.

And, I suspect, but don't cant promise, Depco (Clearwater, FL-based, 310-835-3155). Depco is a large, national, pump and pump parts distributor. Their Web site is mostly about pumps and parts, but they do have a well-known and very capable rebuild service.

The pump arrived from England and it is not for the contra-rotation Perkins. One thing that is interesting, the impeller vanes are straight l, not curved in either direction. The housing clearly is build to direct coolant from the heat exchanger and into the head with the pulley turning clockwise, as opposed to my engine which turns CCW when viewed from the front.

It is a bit hard to see but if you look closely, you can see straight down either side of the vane.

Is the impeller the same size as the original one? Maybe the straight blade one is good enough to move the flow of coolant in the direction of rotation.
Edit: After swapping the new impeller into the contra- housing...

boomerang said:

Is the impeller the same size as the original one? Maybe the straight blade one is good enough to move the flow of coolant in the direction of rotation.
Edit: After swapping the new impeller into the contra- housing...

Click to expand...

I haven't pulled my pump yet, it wasn't leaking, I was just attempting to get a head of the game. I would expect my impeller to look like the used impeller in post #2.

boomerang said:

Is the impeller the same size as the original one? Maybe the straight blade one is good enough to move the flow of coolant in the direction of rotation.
Edit: After swapping the new impeller into the contra- housing...

Click to expand...

I haven't pulled my pump yet, it wasn't leaking, I was just attempting to get a head of the game. I would expect my impeller to look like the used impeller in post #2.

Perkins coolant pump

Long while ago but I bought one, think it came from a tractor parts stockist. Perkins may have been used in English tractor brand Ferguson, though I thought they were 4cyl. I didn`t fit it, the marina mechanic did. As I recall it, the pump assists circulation which happens anyway.

BruceK said:

Long while ago but I bought one, think it came from a tractor parts stockist. Perkins may have been used in English tractor brand Ferguson, though I thought they were 4cyl. I didn`t fit it, the marina mechanic did. As I recall it, the pump assists circulation which happens anyway.

Click to expand...

I would be extremely surprised if a tractor used a contrarotating Perkins engine. To my understanding, they were always lower volume step siblings for twin screw marine use.i can think of a need for them in a single screw boat, tractor, trick, or other vehicle or vessel.

I could be missing something. Not claiming I know anything, other than I'd be surprised.

STB said:

I would be extremely surprised if a tractor used a contrarotating Perkins engine. To my understanding, they were always lower volume step siblings for twin screw marine use.i can think of a need for them in a single screw boat, tractor, trick, or other vehicle or vessel.

I could be missing something. Not claiming I know anything, other than I'd be surprised.

Click to expand...

Mainship put lots of contra rotating engines in thei early model I boats.
And they were all single engine boats.
I owned a 1978 with a contra Perkins. It was hard to get parts for. The engine was also called a "CKD" engine, which stands for "Complete Knock Down" meaning it was shipped to the US to avoid taxes. It was assembled in the US (maybe by Mainship I don't know for sure) and installed in the boat.
I suspect many of the early Mainships had contra rotating CKD engines.

jleonard said:

Mainship put lots of contra rotating engines in thei early model I boats.
And they were all single engine boats.
I owned a 1978 with a contra Perkins. It was hard to get parts for. The engine was also called a "CKD" engine, which stands for "Complete Knock Down" meaning it was shipped to the US to avoid taxes. It was assembled in the US (maybe by Mainship I don't know for sure) and installed in the boat.
I suspect many of the early Mainships had contra rotating CKD engines.

Click to expand...

Thank you and that makes a lot of sense, every time there is a discussion about these engines, it seems like over half of the participants are early Mainship owners. Warren Luhrs was pretty adept at building boats inexpensively and this scheme to import bargain engines sounds typical. He as pretty clever.


There is another Mark i directly behind me in the boatyard right now, shrink wrapped with the flybridge cowling removed. The wrap looks like it has been on for several years and I see no signs of recent activity around the boat. I haven't seen it listed for sale anywhere, but I suspect it is destined to be scrapped. I would love to have a chance to salvage some parts off of it prior to its demise. It would be great to be wrong and to see someone show up and put this thing back together, but I doubt it.

Gdavid said:

Thank you and that makes a lot of sense, every time there is a discussion about these engines, it seems like over half of the participants are early Mainship owners. Warren Luhrs was pretty adept at building boats inexpensively and this scheme to import bargain engines sounds typical. He as pretty clever.


There is another Mark i directly behind me in the boatyard right now, shrink wrapped with the flybridge cowling removed. The wrap looks like it has been on for several years and I see no signs of recent activity around the boat. I haven't seen it listed for sale anywhere, but I suspect it is destined to be scrapped. I would love to have a chance to salvage some parts off of it prior to its demise. It would be great to be wrong and to see someone show up and put this thing back together, but I doubt it.

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Fair enough. Thanks!

My relentless scouring of eBay has paid off. I finally have a spare contra-rotation pump to send off for rebuilding.

A guy who really runs an ebay store "Ted's Trucks N Stuff" is parting out 3 T6.354's. At least one is contra-rotation and I was able to buy this pump. He isn't familiar with these engines but is honest and responsive. If you can walk him through what you need explicitly, it is worth the effort.

Thats a big win!

You might think about buying a spare thermostat also. They are 172 F, IIRC. I know when I had my old Perk, I could not find one that fit the housing. They were rare, maybe not now.

jleonard said:

You might think about buying a spare thermostat also. They are 172 F, IIRC. I know when I had my old Perk, I could not find one that fit the housing. They were rare, maybe not now.

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Thanks, I didn't know that.

Thermostats are available. There is an adapter ring. I wouldn't put in a 40 y/o thermostat rather than new. Check with TAD or S&W for a new thermostat.

I eventually went the adapter fitting route. I had to modify the cast adapter and buy longer bolts.
I didn't buy from TAD and that may have been the difference. And maybe the adapter is more refined now.

The adapter is just a ring that fits the rescess of the existing housing which, itself, has a recess for commonly available thermostats. It works perfectly.

If replacing the thermostat housing with a new one from TAD, the replacement are really nice plate and pipe welded. Much stronger than the original, but also a hair thinner. The bolts might need washers to shorten them, especially the one that is backed up by the raw water pump housing.

Whatever system you used seems to be different and need more mods.