Is a sailboat really "cheaper" than a trawler?

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twistedtree

twistedtree

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I regularly see it asserted that owning and operating a sail boat is cheaper than a trawler. Is this really true?

If you compare two comparably sized and equipped boats, one sail and one a trawler,mis one really less expensive to buy? And to operate?

It seems to me that in most comparisons, what's really being compared is minimalist boating vs comfort boating. Ans sail boats tend to be more minimalist than power boats. But it really has little to do with power vs sail. At least that's how it seems to me.

What do others think? If you compare equally equipped power vs sail, where and how big are the purchase and operating cost differences?
 
Here is a good read comparing costs. What Steve compares are of equal build and comfort.
Rick
 
I think costs like re-rigging (standing and running) and new sails works out to almost equal to a sailboat engine re-power. So, technically in a sailboat, there are two propulsion systems which need to be replaced periodically.

I don't think a sailboat is much, if any, less expensive than a comparably sized trawler of the same year.
 
I think that if you compare sail boats to "Coastal Cruisers" then the costs are closer to each other.

If you compare a 50' sail boat to a 50' passagemaker type boat then the sail boat is cheaper to buy.

One of my neighbors in Seward offered his extremely well equipped and maintained fairly late model 50' sail boat for sale last year. If memory serves correctly he was asking in the low 300's

You can buy allot of really nice fairly late model 50' coastal cruisers for te same money.

Not so much if you are looking for a 50' passagemaker.

But....

His sail boat has probably half the interior room as our coastal cruiser.
 
Not that long ago we had $4 diesel. The current lower prices will eventually raise. All the easy oil is long gone. We're not making more crude and all the algae to fuel, and other affordable propulsion promises have yet to come true.
I have a power boat that gets about 1km to a gallon and at near 70, I figure I can live out my time with diesel. However the comparison between sail vs power works out now, fuel will eventually be more costly for power cruisers.
 
Do sails wear out from sitting in the hold or use and abuse?

If sails were lightly used I'd say the sailboat should be much cheaper. Most just have a small (10-40hp) engine, that is dirt cheap compared to trawler engines .. especially twins. Sailboats are not in covered moorage and I'll bet they take the weather much better. Cheaper to moor.

I'd say sailboats are considerably cheaper. BUT .... if sails were worked hard w lots of adventurious cruising the trawler could be cheaper. A well maintained steel FD trawler could be much more economical than a heavily used sailboat.

But looking at the average 35' boat w typical and comparable use I'd say the sailboat would still be a bit less costly to operate.

Rereading my post I think comparing these two types of boats is not apples and apples. You'd need to compare the sailboats w only F D power boats to be a good apples to apples comparison. And then comparing only similar disp boats.
 
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If you're going to ride bare sticks up and down the ICW then a sailboat is cheaper. If you actually sail, then sails and rigging are expensive to keep up and replace.
 
We lived and cruised on a 43 foot sailboat for 10 years of which 6 years was crossing oceans. It was basically outfitted the same as Hobo; water maker, refrigeration/freezer, central heat, etc. We weren't camping. The interior square footage was smaller and the purchase price was about 20% less than Hobo. I think for us the sailboat was cheaper to operate. We sailed ~30,000 open ocean/passage miles. That doesn't include gunk holing or coastal cruising. If we did the same miles in Hobo the costs would probably be around $36,000 just for fuel ($4/gal) and add ~4800 hours on the engine. How to figure engine repairs/maintenance/consumables I'll leave that to others.

A new set of sails was $13K, standing and running rigging was ~$7K. the sails were good for 10 years and the standing rigging for ~15 years. The running rigging ~$500 every 2 years.

Hull and exterior costs are higher on Hobo just because of the size difference. We had all teak decks on the sailboat and those costs were higher.

We rebuilt both engines and Hobo's cost more but has twice the horse power.

We bought the sailboat to cross oceans and we bought Hobo because we were done crossing oceans. :)
 
Greetings,
Mr. tt. It may be some "snobbery" that has generated the impression that sail is cheaper. Closer to nature, non polluting, quiet, environmentally friendly etc. We've all heard the "arguments".

We haven't boated too much in areas that have been conducive to sailing, you DO need space, after all, so as a result pretty well 99% of the sailing craft we've encountered have been under power. The "iron spinnaker".

In conversation with sailors on a couple of occasions they noted they were motoring because 1) the wind was too strong 2) the wind was too weak 3) the wind was from the wrong direction 4) no room to maneuver....Go figure.

I may have misinterpreted Mr. Dashew's article but I think I read it was more expensive to run sail given the miles he traveled.

Given the above, I'll stick with power thank you very much although I HAVE been on a sailboat 3X, I think. Thankfully never left the dock (yup, snobbery).
 
ksanders said:
I think that if you compare sail boats to "Coastal Cruisers" then the costs are closer to each other.



If you compare a 50' sail boat to a 50' passagemaker type boat then the sail boat is cheaper to buy.



One of my neighbors in Seward offered his extremely well equipped and maintained fairly late model 50' sail boat for sale last year. If memory serves correctly he was asking in the low 300's



You can buy allot of really nice fairly late model 50' coastal cruisers for te same money.



Not so much if you are looking for a 50' passagemaker.



But....



His sail boat has probably half the interior room as our coastal cruiser.
Click to expand...


Do you know how the sail boat was equipped? I suspect that may account for a big chunk of the difference between the sail boat and equivalent passage maker. Does the sail boat have heat and air conditioning? A big watermaker so you can have more than a tea cup a day, and a shower per week? A fully equipped galley with dishwasher and trash compactor? laundry? Stabilizers? A full size marine generator and not something bought at home depot?

Although I'm poking at having a less comfortable passage maker, that's not really my point. My point is that if you reduced down the equipment on a 50' power passage maker to match the 50' sail boat's equipment, would the purchase price be a lot more the same? I think it would be a lot less. Maybe not the same, but a lot less.
 
I have hardly any of that stuff in my current S&B home, and had none of it for the vast majority of my life.

Never thought of it as a sacrifice or less "comfortable" either.
 
In general, a sailboat is not equipped with as many comforts as an equally sized power boat. Even if both have a generator, the sailboats is smaller. If both have AC, the sailboats will be less effective. If you did upgrade a sailboat's systems to equal that of a power vessel, then the costs would likely be equivalent.

However, as was alluded to above, I think if you want to put together a boat for passagemaking, then you can do it much cheaper with sail vs power. Granted, the sailboat will not have the same level of luxuries, but it will tend to give you a better ride when the seas get up.
 
A thought,

Equal size will not be same length. Relatively modern sailboats have an elongated diamond shaped shape. Power boats carry their beams far further into the both ends and offer huge increases in space from it. Sailboats suffer a big loss in space halving the hull shaped very pointed at both ends (to be easliy driven) so a 40' sailboat may have less space aboard than a 34' powerboat. And more obviously there's much more cabin as one goes up on a powerboat. Again it's hard to get to apples and apples.
 
Hey, I'm a sailor turned power boater. . .I'll throw in my 2 cents!

The sailboats I'm going to talk about are the production sailboats across dozens of different brands who churned out hundreds if not thousands of boats over several decades. These boats can be had from "free" to a buck a pound in various levels of condition. The volume of used mass production sailboats keeps their prices down as there is an endless supply to choose from. These are the boats I think of when someone starts a "sailboats are soooo cheap to operate" discussion with me when they find out I went to the dark side. It's obvious these people have never properly refit a sailboat.

So, you are starting out with a 30-35 foot boat you can pick up for $3k-$7k in usable condition. They are cheap to buy. There really is no comparison in the trawler world. Maybe the small power cruiser market is closer?

Now, none of the "sailors" I know have any idea about life expectancy of equipment. For example, a standard response I get about how old the standing rigging is, is; "It's stainless steel, it'll last forever" :rolleyes: Then again, in my neighbors case, he only sails his 35 year old original rigging in 7-9 knots of winds. It's starting to brown around the swages, but might last him years until he sells it to the first person who show's up with $1500 :facepalm:

Same goes for sails. I don't know of anyone who thinks sails wear out. If a seam opens up, they hit with the sewing machine and keep going. Sail cover starting to rot off? That's what god made sail tape for! Hell, I've seen large holes in a mainsail due to rats that were "fixed" by laminating layers of sail tape together. Looked like crap, but worked since he was a fair weather sailor. Sail shape? It's a triangle, right? It's not bagged out, it's kept in a bag. . .

I've seen plenty of running rigging used until the sheath separates, only to be replaced by Homedepot line off the spool.

There is an endless supply of used boat hardware for cheap if something breaks.

If the inboard engine breaks, you replace it with a transom bracket and "craigslist" special outboard for $350.

These boats have zero systems to maintain, so there isn't much to break or fix.

In my experience, sailboaters of the above type tend to be cheap or broke. And the sailboats themselves seem to be able to tolerate much more neglect and "duct tape n' bailing wire" band aides then a trawler.

I would say that sailboats aren't so much cheaper, it's that they can be used cheaply. I took care of my boat "the right way" and spent a chunk of money on it. I got 25% back when I sold. I wish I would have went the cheap route in the end. . .

Who knows, maybe trawlering would be cheaper too if there were warehouses filled with used engines from scrapped trawlers like there is used sails from scrapped sailboats. One local chandler tried to give me sails just so he could free up shelf space :lol:

But as has been mentioned before, I'm not sure you can get a good comparison going since there are so many variables.
 
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Once again...compare apples to apples....if you even can.

An uncomplicated, economically rigged, spartan sailboat cruising with or without its engine can be pretty inexpensive.

A top of the line, professionally maintained sailboat can be hugely expensive....used hard...maybe astronomically expensive.

My trawler costs me way less than my friends 42 Catalina sailboat. He spends more on it every year than I do on my trawler..... probably 2 to 3 times as much....I cruise about 2500 miles a year, he cruises about 25.

So...how do you want to compare the 2?

It is really up to you how expensive either would be....and in reality, how would anyone directly compare the two?
 
john61ct said:
For long distance liveaboard cruisers, just the fuel. . .
Click to expand...


I certainly don't deny the cost of fuel. But at same time, my moorage costs are probably double my fuel costs. We aren't full time long range cruisers, but we get around to the tune of probably 3-5 thousand miles per year. And in the total cost of ownership, I think fuel is a relatively small %
 
cool beans said:
Hey, I'm a sailor turned power boater. . .I'll throw in my 2 cents!

The sailboats I'm going to talk about are the production sailboats across dozens of different brands who churned out hundreds if not thousands of boats over several decades. These boats can be had from "free" to a buck a pound in various levels of condition. The volume of used mass production sailboats keeps their prices down as there is an endless supply to choose from. These are the boats I think of when someone starts a "sailboats are soooo cheap to operate" discussion with me when they find out I went to the dark side. It's obvious these people have never properly refit a sailboat.

So, you are starting out with a 30-35 foot boat you can pick up for $3k-$7k in usable condition. They are cheap to buy. There really is no comparison in the trawler world. Maybe the small power cruiser market is closer?

Now, none of the "sailors" I know have any idea about life expectancy of equipment. For example, a standard response I get about how old the standing rigging is, is; "It's stainless steel, it'll last forever" :rolleyes: Then again, in my neighbors case, he only sails his 35 year old original rigging in 7-9 knots of winds. It's starting to brown around the swages, but might last him years until he sells it to the first person who show's up with $1500 :facepalm:

Same goes for sails. I don't know of anyone who thinks sails wear out. If a seam opens up, they hit with the sewing machine and keep going. Sail cover starting to rot off? That's what god made sail tape for! Hell, I've seen large holes in a mainsail due to rats that were "fixed" by laminating layers of sail tape together. Looked like crap, but worked since he was a fair weather sailor. Sail shape? It's a triangle, right? It's not bagged out, it's kept in a bag. . .

I've seen plenty of running rigging used until the sheath separates, only to be replaced by Homedepot line off the spool.

There is an endless supply of used boat hardware for cheap if something breaks.

If the inboard engine breaks, you replace it with a transom bracket and "craigslist" special outboard for $350.

These boats have zero systems to maintain, so there isn't much to break or fix.

In my experience, sailboaters of the above type tend to be cheap or broke. And the sailboats themselves seem to be able to tolerate much more neglect and "duct tape n' bailing wire" band aides then a trawler.

I would say that sailboats aren't so much cheaper, it's that they can be used cheaply. I took care of my boat "the right way" and spent a chunk of money on it. I got 25% back when I sold. I wish I would have went the cheap route in the end. . .

Who knows, maybe trawlering would be cheaper too if there were warehouses filled with used engines from scrapped trawlers like there is used sails from scrapped sailboats. One local chandler tried to give me sails just so he could free up shelf space :lol:

But as has been mentioned before, I'm not sure you can get a good comparison going since there are so many variables.
Click to expand...


Good points. I'd summarize by saying that if you want to go minimalist, boating is much cheaper. And it's easier to go more minimalist with a sail boat. But in this case I think the savings come from being minimalist more than anything. I've seen plenty of power boats that are clearly operated on a shoe string, and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm not trying to suggest a boa needs to be outfitting any particular way. I'm just looking for an objective attribution of the savings.
 
psneeld said:
Once again...compare apples to apples....if you even can.

An uncomplicated, economically rigged, spartan sailboat cruising with or without its engine can be pretty inexpensive.

A top of the line, professionally maintained sailboat can be hugely expensive....used hard...maybe astronomically expensive.

My trawler costs me way less than my friends 42 Catalina sailboat. He spends more on it every year than I do on my trawler..... probably 2 to 3 times as much....I cruise about 2500 miles a year, he cruises about 25.

So...how do you want to compare the 2?

It is really up to you how expensive either would be....and in reality, how would anyone directly compare the two?
Click to expand...


Right. It's much more about the level of appointments in the boat, and the level of maintenance. Sail vs power is almost incidental.
 
FWIW, I own two boats, a Catalina 400 MkII that I'm trying to sell and my North Pacific 43. So far, the power boat is a LOT more expensive to own. This is with roughly equal amount and types of use. As Eric pointed out, even with similar lengths, there is a LOT more boat with a power boat. My Catalina 400 has been a relatively inexpensive boat to own, but it is a relatively simple boat. No inverter, no thrusters, manual raw water heads, etc... The biggest differences come with the basic maintenance. I could buy a raw water impeller for my sailboat for about $30-40. MUCH more expensive for my Cummins 5.9. Lot more expense with the larger engine.
 
twistedtree said:
Do you know how the sail boat was equipped? I suspect that may account for a big chunk of the difference between the sail boat and equivalent passage maker. Does the sail boat have heat and air conditioning? A big watermaker so you can have more than a tea cup a day, and a shower per week? A fully equipped galley with dishwasher and trash compactor? laundry? Stabilizers? A full size marine generator and not something bought at home depot?

Although I'm poking at having a less comfortable passage maker, that's not really my point. My point is that if you reduced down the equipment on a 50' power passage maker to match the 50' sail boat's equipment, would the purchase price be a lot more the same? I think it would be a lot less. Maybe not the same, but a lot less.
Click to expand...

You are probably right. They had a built in generator, but no laundry, or large house bank, or inverter. They did have a watermaker, but I dont remember what size.

These folks were not the minimalist sailboat types, nor frugal, but there is only so much room.

I was not fond of the living area inside. Every sailboat I see make port, first thing they do is empty the boat out and let everything dry out.
 
A bit like people who want a nice big RV, all the mod cons of home, just happens to be on wheels.

As opposed to those who value fuel efficiency, tiny-house minimalist values, choose to convert a minivan or make do with a little teardrop trailer.

The former camp is more likely to opt for a stinkpot, the latter to be sailors.

But when the opposite, the budgets get closer.

I do think apples to apples in minimalist mode, the fuel cost when long-distance cruising becomes a decisive factor.
 
True that sailboats tend to empty to let everything dry out...

For my past experiences, and I owned 4 sailboats before my first powerboat, yes, they got a lot of wet abuse inside, but from weather that I wouldn't dream of taking my trawler into.

So if some one is going to venture past coastal cruising, sail has its advantages in seaworthyness, but limited interior comfort.
 
ksanders said:
I think that if you compare sail boats to "Coastal Cruisers" then the costs are closer to each other.

If you compare a 50' sail boat to a 50' passagemaker type boat then the sail boat is cheaper to buy.

One of my neighbors in Seward offered his extremely well equipped and maintained fairly late model 50' sail boat for sale last year. If memory serves correctly he was asking in the low 300's

You can buy allot of really nice fairly late model 50' coastal cruisers for te same money.

Not so much if you are looking for a 50' passagemaker.

But....

His sail boat has probably half the interior room as our coastal cruiser.
Click to expand...

As a sailboater I would divide sailboats the same way - coastal cruisers and passagemaker - and the price range varies accordingly as it does with power boats. There is a huge range.

Really hard to do appropriate comparisons. A new set of sails can cost more than a new diesel. Some people will never make that purchase, others are regulars at the sailmaker's shop.
 
twistedtree said:
..... And in the total cost of ownership, I think fuel is a relatively small..... %
Click to expand...

I think this is the key to finding each person's answer to the question, and the answer is not universal. Its going to be different for each person because everyone has a different idea of what boating is. For the people who never leave the marina, obviously the reduction in fuel costs offered from sailing doesn't help much. For the minimalist who just wants shelter from the environment and covers tens of thousands of miles....sail is going to be cheaper.

One factor I don't think has been brought up is seaworthyness. I think if your goal is to by the smallest boat that has a certain amount of capability, you can get by with a smaller sailboat than you can a powerboat. So if you want to be able to go to the Carribean anytime you want without waiting for a weather window, you might need a 50 foot powerboat, but maybe only a 40 foot sailboat. ( lengths chosen arbitrarily to make a point...) That could change the balance of cost for some people.
 
We recently up with a couple who had a ~50' catamaran, 29' wide. They had done a circumnavigation in it over the course of 5 years. It was a very large boat with a lot of living space on it, 3 state rooms and a large galley. He said that the running rigging and sails were coming up for replacement and it would not be cheap. Also moorage was very expensive.
 
Jeff F said:
As a sailboater I would divide sailboats the same way - coastal cruisers and passagemaker - and the price range varies accordingly as it does with power boats. There is a huge range.
Click to expand...



I agree with you but... I have a 40' Catalina sailboat that is a coastal cruiser. I also have a 43' power boat that is a coastal cruiser.

However, with just a little bit of prep work, I would be OK with taking my sailboat offshore (in other words beyond range of weather forecasting) but would never do that with my 43' power boat.

My sailboat isn't an ideal bluewater boat, but workable. My power boat, while wonderful, is simply not adequate for that.
 
If you want the two boats to be comparable in terms of accommodations then the sailboat will be significantly longer and more expensive to buy than the trawler. If you are talking about a 50' trawler/passagemaker the comparable sailboat will be in the 75' range. Both the 50' passagemaker and the 75' sailboat will be capable of crossing oceans, but the sailboat will be able to handle much worse weather. The build quality of the sailboat will also likely be higher. Note that I am not talking production boats here. I have been on larger sailboats (50'-76') with amenities far beyond those found on most 50' trawlers. Of course those boats had price tags in the millions.

For my 36' sailboat the standing rigging costs about $3,000 to replace. A complete set of new sails is about $4,000 for cruising quality - race quality is MUCH more and wears out much more quickly. Cruising sails generally last around 10 years, but they can be pushed considerably longer with judicious repairs. A new diesel would set me back about $10,000-$12,000 depending on if I could reuse the shaft and prop. in terms of accommodations my boat is comparable to something like a Grand Banks 32. It is much more seaworthy than any 36' trawler.

As far as buying a used sailboat goes, yes you can find one pretty cheap. My 45 year old 36' boat is worth about $40K. You can find lots of 40 year old 35' trawlers for that money or less. However, there is a huge range of quality in sailboats, just like there is with powerboats. That range of quality is reflected in the price.

So I would say that the original question is very difficult to answer since it can be quite difficult to define comparable boats. Comparable in what respect? Sea keeping ability? Accommodations and amenities? Cost? Size? You really can't have have power and sail that are comparable in all those categories.
 
Long distance such as trans-oceanic cruises are most likely cheaper under sail than under power. For any given boat length, the motor boat will have more volume/tonnage than a sailboat, so comparison foot-for-foot is irrational. Used sailboats are quite cheap compared to motor boats.

Off to Hawaii:

 
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