I need a "Filter Microns 101" Course...

Benthic2 said:

could too fine a filter over burden your fuel pump ??

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The flow rate for, Racor filters at least, is the same no matter which micron size element you use in them.

Capt.Bill11 said:

The flow rate for, Racor filters at least, is the same no matter which micron size element you use in them.

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I never knew that. A quick check with the Parker specifications show that they list the same fuel flow and pressure drop for the 2, 10, and 30 micron filters.

BTW, Parker describes the 2 micron as final filtration only. They describe their 10 as primary/secondary and 30 micron filters as primary only.

Most of the crap in our fuel is way over 30mic, so a 30 is fine for primary. And as other's have posted, what the filters actually catch with regard to particle size is actually a curve expressing efficiency vs particle size. Each filter has a different shaped curve and different brands use different methods to express efficiency. Complicated stuff, but for old school diesels, pretty much anything will do the job.

Yes, they all flow the same GPH. So I use 10 micron as primary and extend the life of my secondaries which are a lot more work to change.

If the flow is the same why not use 2 micron as the primary and secondary. Sure it may cost a few dollars more but who do us can't afford a $10.00 2 micron filter?

I"f the flow is the same why not use 2 micron as the primary and secondary. Sure it may cost a few dollars more but who do us can't afford a $10.00 2 micron filter?"

They have the same flow rate when they are absolutely new and clean and go down from there.
A 2 mic filter will reach a lower flow rate many times quicker than a 30 mic filter. Using a 30mic as a first filter and a 2 micas a final filter will pull much more contaminants out of the fuel then using two 2 mic filters - and therefore protect flow rates for much longer periods of time.
Adding a bulk filter prior to these two will then extend filter changes to 10X the fuel used or more.

So it is strictly to save money so if I don't mind an extra $10.00 bill every six months my fuel will be fine and may even be cleaner.

Bob Smith, American Diesel, and the fellow involved with the marinization of the Lehman engine recommended a 30 micron size for the primary filter.

Tony Athens has two very good "articles" on fuel filtration that are worth a read. He makes some very good points and recommends progressive filtration. First an overview:

https://www.sbmar.com/articles/fuel-filtration/

Second, putting it all together:

https://www.sbmar.com/articles/marine-fuel-filtration-the-seaboard-way/

He goes into the concept of the beta ratio, etc.

Jim

"So it is strictly to save money so if I don't mind an extra $10.00 bill every six months my fuel will be fine and may even be cleaner."


- It will not be cleaner
- If you only put in perfectly clean fuel you do not need the initial filter
- Most all of us cannot get perfectly clean fuel
- If you only travel a few miles a season filters may not be important to you
- If you cruise extensively you will eventually get a load of fuel that is less than desired
- When that happens the 2 mic filter will be overwhelmed within an hour or two
- You then have the cost, time and safety of changing filters on the run


This is why the mechanics sites that speak about filters for your engines as well as the filter manufacturers themselves recommend staged filtration and vacuum monitoring.
Staged filtration is the only way we were able to clean the large fuel storage tanks back when I did that for a living a long time ago.

I also have a multi-stage setup. 30 micron to 10 micron then the on engine filters which are supposedly 7 micron.

jleonard said:

I also have a multi-stage setup. 30 micron to 10 micron then the on engine filters which are supposedly 7 micron.

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Bingo, another winner for the best available filter setup.

BTW, I was chatting with a fuel dock guy as to frequency of changing out the dock inline 30u spin ons - "not too often."

Greetings,
Racor 900 2 microns and I buy them by the case. Also have vacuum gauges.

On engine CAVs...whatever, as mentioned 5-7 microns. I'm in the "it's a LOT easier to change the Racors IF necessary, in a seaway, than the CAVs" camp.

dhays said:

Very nice setup. I have never gotten a load of bad fuel but I think the idea of adding a course Fleetguard before the dual Racors would be great to have just in case.

.

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Ski in NC said:

Most of the crap in our fuel is way over 30mic, so a 30 is fine for primary. .

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sunchaser said:

Heron
Now this is a great setup. By the book, ready for a load of bad fuel (hoping of course it never happens) and with an easily changed fleet guard. What engine?

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I've posted this before, but it might prove interesting to those who have not seen it and reinforce the progressive filtering concept. When I bought my boat it had sat for awhile and had a bit of an asphaltine problem. However, it ran just fine with no discernible issues. About 50 hours into my ownership, after an intake pipe clog on one tank, I decided to go through my filters and deal with whatever tank build-up had caused the clog.
Here is what the 27 micron Fleetguard looked like after 300 hours and 5 years (per the records I could find). It still flowed fuel just fine. Had that not been in line I'd have gone broke replacing the Racor filters just downstream.... Engine is a Volvo TAMD41P. Amazing.



My set-up now allows for tank balancing and filtering with a simple pump as well as an additional 10 micron Sierra filter I can switch in for a poor man's polish..Adding the Sierra, Plumbing, Valves , pump etc ran less than $200

"Quote:
Originally Posted by jleonard
I also have a multi-stage setup. 30 micron to 10 micron then the on engine filters which are supposedly 7 micron.
Bingo, another winner for the best available filter setup.

BTW, I was chatting with a fuel dock guy as to frequency of changing out the dock inline 30u spin ons - "not too often." "




Agreed- and for what it is worth I became aware of more than a coupled of fuel docks that just remove the filter element from their fuel pumps and let the pump run without one - looks like it has a filter from the outside.

Agreed- and for what it is worth I became aware of more than a coupled of fuel docks that just remove the filter element from their fuel pumps and let the pump run without one - looks like it has a filter from the outside.[/QUOTE]

How does one remove the filter element from a spin on

I need a "Filter Microns 101" Course...

sunchaser said:

Agreed- and for what it is worth I became aware of more than a coupled of fuel docks that just remove the filter element from their fuel pumps and let the pump run without one - looks like it has a filter from the outside.

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How does one remove the filter element from a spin on [/QUOTE]


I think you need cut it open. Go to Tony Athens' site. He reveals all.

Jim

"How does one remove the filter element from a spin on "


Many of the diesel pumps around here have filter housings with elements inside that are replaceable - not spin on. There is a central bolt that comes up from the bottom and holds on a very substantial housing which holds a filter element.
It is really very similar to a home oil burner fuel filter except larger, much longer and takes a pleated filter.

A question please - I have heard from 'friends' that they like to look at the fuel through the clear fuel bowls to detect the fuel quality. I have seen very little value in that myself. Over the years I have asked questions such as these to these folks but never get an answer I can use effectively....


- What fuel color is good vs bad?
- What do you use to 'detect' the color tint? (how do you compare it)
- How do you tell what % of the color is dyed"
- What do you do when you see it is bad?
- For those that have vacuum gages what is the correlation between color and the vac gage movement?
- How bad do you think the fuel needs to be to show a noticeable/measurable color change within a 3" cylinder?




My intent is not to start an argument , nor get anyone 'upset', nor turn this into an 'anchor type' discussion.
The only goal is to learn what the advantages may be that are measurable, recordable and teachable to others.

Greetings,
Mr. 477.
1) Don't know. All I see is red.
2) Naked eye. If it's not black, it's good.
3) Again, don't know
4) I think the ONLY thing a vacuum gauge will tell you is the state of your filter element.
5) Although I have not experienced any "bad" fuel AFAIK...my criteria would be if it doesn't burn, it's bad.

On our first filter change after getting our current boat there was a small layer of black "stuff" in the bottom of the clear bowl. Using long cable ties to dislodge the more stubborn bits and draining the "stuff" out the bottom we have experienced no other visible contamination since. This was about 12 years ago.

sunchaser said:

Agreed- and for what it is worth I became aware of more than a coupled of fuel docks that just remove the filter element from their fuel pumps and let the pump run without one - looks like it has a filter from the outside.

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How does one remove the filter element from a spin on [/QUOTE]

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. 477.
1) Don't know. All I see is red.
2) Naked eye. If it's not black, it's good.
3) Again, don't know
4) I think the ONLY thing a vacuum gauge will tell you is the state of your filter element.
5) Although I have not experienced any "bad" fuel AFAIK...my criteria would be if it doesn't burn, it's bad.

On our first filter change after getting our current boat there was a small layer of black "stuff" in the bottom of the clear bowl. Using long cable ties to dislodge the more stubborn bits and draining the "stuff" out the bottom we have experienced no other visible contamination since. This was about 12 years ago.

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Thank you RT - that is our experience over the past 25 years as well.

smitty477 said:

"How does one remove the filter element from a spin on "
.

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Cut it just below the flange on the spin on side. There are special filter cutters for this or just use a hacksaw. This fleetguard had an upper and lower flange as there was a clear bowl screwed onto the bottom.

smitty477 said:

A question please - I have heard from 'friends' that they like to look at the fuel through the clear fuel bowls to detect the fuel quality. I have seen very little value in that myself. Over the years I have asked questions such as these to these folks but never get an answer I can use effectively....


- What fuel color is good vs bad?
- What do you use to 'detect' the color tint? (how do you compare it)
- How do you tell what % of the color is dyed"
- What do you do when you see it is bad?
- For those that have vacuum gages what is the correlation between color and the vac gage movement?
- How bad do you think the fuel needs to be to show a noticeable/measurable color change within a 3" cylinder?




My intent is not to start an argument , nor get anyone 'upset', nor turn this into an 'anchor type' discussion.
The only goal is to learn what the advantages may be that are measurable, recordable and teachable to others.

Click to expand...

Your questions make no sense.

Looking into the bowl has nothing to do with the color of the fuel. It's all about seeing a build up of crud and/or water in the bowl.

If you bowl normally remains clean and water free and you start seeing a build up you may have a fuel issue that you didn't before.

Doesn't matter what color the fuel is.

Smitty




- It will not be cleaner

But it will not be dirtier.


- If you only put in perfectly clean fuel you do not need the initial filter

Not going to happen


- Most all of us cannot get perfectly clean fuel

See above


- If you only travel a few miles a season filters may not be important to you

We travel a few hundred hours per yer 400-600.


- If you cruise extensively you will eventually get a load of fuel that is less than desired

Done that!


- When that happens the 2 mic filter will be overwhelmed within an hour or two

True, I have changed six filters on one load of fuel. Just money. But in your case if your primary is 30 micron and you take on fuel that had crud in it that is 10 to 20 micron it passes your 30 and your then changing the engine mounted secondary with is harder in my case and more expensive.

- You then have the cos

Capt.Bill11 said:

Your questions make no sense.

Looking into the bowl has nothing to do with the color of the fuel. It's all about seeing a build up of crud and/or water in the bowl.

If you bowl normally remains clean and water free and you start seeing a build up you may have a fuel issue that you didn't before.

Doesn't matter what color the fuel is.

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Capt Bill - I agree with your post , color means nothing to me either that is why I am trying to understand what other folks mean when they say they are looking at the color.
Build ups of crud and or water will show up on the vacuum readings used to detect that. I only had water on one used boat once - and it was not just a little bit as most of us know the diesel pickups are typically well above the tanks bottom. Thank you

Bigsfish said:

Smitty




- It will not be cleaner

But it will not be dirtier.


- If you only put in perfectly clean fuel you do not need the initial filter

Not going to happen


- Most all of us cannot get perfectly clean fuel

See above


- If you only travel a few miles a season filters may not be important to you

We travel a few hundred hours per yer 400-600.


- If you cruise extensively you will eventually get a load of fuel that is less than desired

Done that!


- When that happens the 2 mic filter will be overwhelmed within an hour or two

True, I have changed six filters on one load of fuel. Just money. But in your case if your primary is 30 micron and you take on fuel that had crud in it that is 10 to 20 micron it passes your 30 and your then changing the engine mounted secondary with is harder in my case and more expensive.

- You then have the cos

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I am guessing you are changing the filters by watching a vac gage. I am also guessing that you need to change the filters yourself away from the dock hopefully with enough warning so you do not have to do it underway. If you must do it underway it almost always seems ts n the worst weather days as that is when the fuel gets mixed up good. Then it is not only the money but its also the safety and aggravation of working the filters on the seas.
- You can use a 30 mic initial filter and save about 5-6X those changes
- You can also put a spin on bulk filter ahead of the current initial filter and save yourself changing those filters another 5X(now a total of 10X).
- Spin on's being the easiest to change by far.

I do not understand the problems with the on engine filters but I can say that they do not 'fill up' nearly as quickly as most might think using a 30 mic up line - even a 10 mic up line will work much better. Do you have a pressure gage on the on-engine filter?
I have tried all of this with gages on each and learned the results over a longer period of time the harder way.

[Smitty

I have dual Racors on each engine, easy to switch with a lever, each twin Racors has a vacuum gauge with a recording needle when it gets to 7 or higher I switch to the other Racor and replace the bad filter.

I should add that once heading to the Bahamas I lost power in one engine, switched to the other Racor and when I got on the banks I changed toe filter.

smitty477 said:

Capt Bill - I agree with your post , color means nothing to me either that is why I am trying to understand what other folks mean when they say they are looking at the color.
Build ups of crud and or water will show up on the vacuum readings used to detect that. I only had water on one used boat once - and it was not just a little bit as most of us know the diesel pickups are typically well above the tanks bottom. Thank you

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Water alarm probes are a better option to alert you to the presence of water in your bowl than vacuum gauges.

In my experience with very low fuel consumption and fuel return engines like Lehmans that vacuum gauges aren't all that great at predicting fouled filter elements.

I believe some have change the on engine filters to Baldwin BF790 spin on which are 20 micron. Two questions, does the BF790 function well as the final filter and if so what micron size and make are the primary filters? Is there a 5 or 10 micron spin on compatable with the DP 1000 base?

Bigsfish said:

[Smitty

I have dual Racors on each engine, easy to switch with a lever, each twin Racors has a vacuum gauge with a recording needle when it gets to 7 or higher I switch to the other Racor and replace the bad filter.

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I am not familiar with your engines so the values are likely different but with my past boats the total vacuum before engine rpm affect was greater than 15". On our set up new filters were just about 2" , service life was between 2 and 10-11 ,and change by 12 or when convenient. Unless we had a pretty poor load of fuel which was not typical the hours of use at say 9 gph burned per engine was at least 10-12hrs or more between 7" and 10".
In the case of the twin Racors we had that on a boat as well and placed a bulk spin on ahead of them with a vac gage and that extended the Racor life tremendously to where we were just changing the filters seasonally as part of a winterizing list. The bulk filter 'head' was somewhere like $35 and then the chosen filter for use, gages were about $25 plus snubbers.