Putting an offer on a boat sight unseen tomorrow

BandB said:

How do you know that?

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Are you serious? I came to this forum because you guys are some of the best at what you do. But I swear I'm starting to think otherwise.

Sometimes you have to trust others because you have no reason not to. I trust this guy enough to plan a trip to see the boat. I am doing as so many others have done, just make an offer based on the information I have, comtinginet on said stipulations.

I am gettting a survey. That is when I will absolutely know if he is a crook or not.

Seevee said:

Steve91T

Your last post makes some sense.

The group is not out to berate you or cause you grief. We are hear to help and a lot of the folks here have bought numerous boats, and I'm sure ones without surveys. You've seem to change your tone a bit from your first post, making the purchase subject to an inspection and survey. And that's probably the safest way to buy a boat.

Question that might make the folks here give you better advice. What is your boating experience, both operating and boats you've owned?

There's nothing wrong with a sight unseen offer, but there's a time a place. In your situation, it makes sense because of the distance. Folks do that a lot, and often hire someone to look at the boat first, which is not hard to do. Also, there's nothing wrong with BUYING a boat (or other toy) sight unseen, but one needs to have reasonably reliable information as to the condition and what he's buying. And when you're buying a boat unseen, you need to be intimately familiar with THAT boat, not just a guess.

Just reading the ad, it sounds like a very motivated seller, with skinny descriptions of things, no model numbers, no description of the electronics, etc., etc. It reads like a high maintenance boat, but that's gut feeling. However, if the bulk of the appliances, electronics haven't been replaced, it will be high maintenance. As for the operation of the boat, the pair of 454s will burn gas. For your $20 of gas for a cruise, that might get you 30 to 45 minutes.

To me it would be an ideal boat to hang on at the dock, or run out to a nearby favorite anchorage that's close and hang out there, or perhaps watch a sunset from. It's not an ideal cruiser for trips of much distance, the gas will eat your lunch. BUT, it's cheap. And because it's cheap, you'll have some negatives.

I agree with Wifey BandB, your will NOT know if its the right boat by stepping on it... you will know after a good inspection and perhaps survey. Buying a boat is not like falling in love with a woman (but probably just as bad). You may not know if it's the right boat for several months after buying it.

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Thank you for that. It was very informative. I really do agree with you that this Isn't the best long range cruiser. We want to do some cruising on the ICW, but it might end up spending most of its life on the lake. I really don't know. I can just speculate what turns our lives will take.

As for me, I started out when I was 24 with a boat junk yard pull out. It was a 1976 Slickcaft 17' ski boat with a 302 I/O. I got it running and had a blast on it for a few years. I had to move and sold the boat for what I bought it for even though it had a soft floor. 6 yrs later, that guy called me asking if I wanted to buy it back. It was still running great. I thought that was pretty cool.

After I sold that boat, I bought a 01 (I think) Larson 19' with a 4.3 Volv Penta. Great boat. Bought it for $8k in the beginning of a season and sold it at the end for $8k. All I did was put gas in it.

Then we bought ou correct boat. My 1995 Mariah Z202. 20' bowrider. It's got a 5.7 Merc and we absolutely love it. Had it for 6 ish years now and it's been so reliable. It's going to be really hard to let it go.

I'll post some pictures tomorrow. This thread needs some pictures. Something to lighten the mood.

Steve91T said:

Are you serious? I came to this forum because you guys are some of the best at what you do. But I swear I'm starting to think otherwise.

Sometimes you have to trust others because you have no reason not to. I trust this guy enough to plan a trip to see the boat. I am doing as so many others have done, just make an offer based on the information I have, comtinginet on said stipulations.

I am gettting a survey. That is when I will absolutely know if he is a crook or not.

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It was a simple question. The point of the question was that perhaps you'd benefit from doing a boat history before investing more. When you arrived today you had no intent of getting a survey. Now you do. You also said you'd know the minute you stepped on the boat. No, you won't. Wifey B suggested earlier you go see it tomorrow, well today now.

You're right about being protected with an offer subject to survey and trial. You just have the cost of the trip and of the survey and sea trial. One more word of caution. Do not let them select or recommend the surveyor.

You wanted advice, you got it.

Now, since you resent it, I won't give any more.

BandB said:

How do you know that?

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Re-read his posts 36 & 49

boatpoker said:

Re-read his posts 36 & 49

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I did. Doesn't change my question.

Frankly, I think quit a few on this thread have been a bit more wet-blankety than was necessary. Sure, some have had bad experiences, but that's life. He has taken on board about the need for a survey before he parts with cold cash. Then he can put a deposit on it and have a sea trial based on that.

Let's not kill their enthusiasm prematurely. He may or may not have that experience after actually getting on board anyway, without our help. But having enthusiasm and a dream is surely half the fun. Just do what you want to do Steve. I just wish you were looking at my boat, for example. I could sure do with someone who can see the virtues of my Lotus looking at her, and enthusiastic at her potential. Not the fallow who was the subject of this email I just had in minutes ago from my broker...get a load of this...

Peter,
I had a very low offer on your boat the other day. Too low for me to tell you how much it is.
Tell me instead what I have to get you in your hand.
Kind Regards
Sven

How deflating is that for a seller of a much-loved boat. So, let's all give this boat and its owner the benefit of the doubt. After all, its his money...

A re-read of post #1 is in order. Then the wet blankety comments begin to fall into place. As the OP continues to re-post his intentions, it does appear he is beginning to get the picture.

Now, about taking this vessel to the Bahamas, maybe RT who is languishing in Bimini has a thought or two.

Miami Sea Buoy to Bimini just under 50 nm. In a boat like the MS31 you could leave after breakfast and be there for lunch. You pick your weather for this crossing because it's so short but can change quickly. Made this crossing plenty of times in center consoles down to 20ft. You check the forecast, current conditions, take a quick look at TV/Web radar and go.

sunchaser said:

Now, about taking this vessel to the Bahamas, maybe RT who is languishing in Bimini has a thought or two.

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Greetings,
Mr. S91. You're taking a rather unorthodox approach to acquiring a vessel BUT your reasoning appears sound in spite of your admission of "...falling in love..." (usually a dangerous step particularly when $$ are involved).

Up until just now, I didn't even look at the link to the sale posting but from the pictures I would suggest you proceed with your plan. She doesn't look half bad so by all means make a conditional offer, pile the gang into the family fliver and go take a look. As has been mentioned, the only thing you have to lose, from what I can see, is a couple of tanks of gas and maybe an overnight hotel fee.

Regarding the ICW and a Gulf Stream crossing. Go for it Mr. S91.

Now! To the REAL point of this post...(sorry for the slight thread creep Mr. S91)

Mr. s. (post #67)...

lan·guish


/ˈlaNGɡwiSH/


verb

• 1. (of a person or other living thing) lose or lack vitality; grow weak or feeble:
• 2. suffer from being forced to remain in an unpleasant place or situation:

Languishing? HAH! Bimini is SO bad if it weren't for the rest of my family (kids and grand kids) not being here I could quite readily "languish" right here for the rest of my days. Good food. Wonderful people both cruisers and locals. Walk pretty well everywhere and sunrises that start my days off with Zen. Life is good.

As a newbie myself, I know how easy it is to fall in love with a boat over the internet. LOL, I have changed the boat I want to buy 4 times in the last 9 months!

I would ask the OP if he and his wife have ever set foot on a Mainship 31 Sedan. I ask this in all sincerity because if the answer is no, then you might find the boat, while appealing in pictures, to fall short in practicality when you are on board. If you have been on board a similar boat then you know ahead of time it is a good fit for yourself and your family.

Quite honestly, if I were in your situation, I would just go down and see the boat in person. Bing maps shows its about a four hour drive from Lake Norman to Folly Beach. You can check out the boat and perform your own mini-survey. If the boat passes, you can then move on to the next step of scheduling a real survey and have a mechanic check out the boat.

Gas inboards are not my cup of tea, but they are very common in boats of this type. Yes, you will spend a fair amount of money on gas, but the boat itself is not that expensive, so it leaves a lot of money let over to buy gas.

Hope you check out the boat and it passes a survey and mechanical check, so that you and your family can enjoy it this Summer!

Jim

You did not mention Bimini Bread, on some of my fast trips to Bimini the only reason we went

RT Firefly said:

Bimini is SO bad if it weren't for the rest of my family (kids and grand kids) not being here I could quite readily "languish" right here for the rest of my days. Good food. Wonderful people both cruisers and locals. Walk pretty well everywhere and sunrises that start my days off with Zen. Life is good.

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Greetings,
Mr. K. A Taste of Heaven | The Official Site of The Bahamas

RT
Precisely the response I was hoping for as you luxuriate in Bimini.

Keys
Yes, virtually any sound vessel can make it to Bimini under suitable conditions. Upon arrival it is time to languish under RT's def #2, eating a few loaves in a lackadaisical manner.

Greetings,
Mr. K. Not only the bread at the "bakery" but take away as well. This was lunch last Saturday @ $10 per serving. Had enough left for dinner.

I found this thread interesting. As a retired full time marine surveyor I should note that when I bought my last and final boat (I hope), I hired an independent competent surveyor and a marine mechanic to give it close examination. They did find a few things I missed (and also I found a couple of minor things they missed). However when I went to buy insurance, they asked for a survey. The broker said I had one and the the underwriter said "PLEASE don't tell me he did it himself" the broker confirmed it was done by an independent. They know a buyer loses objectivity when he tries to justify why he bought the boat. I say this to point out the objectivity lesson. You may not need the survey for the insurance company but you do need it for peace of mind as well as financial expedience.

I know Salvage Sale well. I actually bought a boat from them about ten years ago. The owner is a nice enough guy and they build up a good inventory of insurance sales and private sales of, well let's just call them problem boats. The boat I bought was a down easter that the broker insisted would be a good fixer upper. It had been a sinker. He insisted it had been a well kept boat (ha ha, what difference did that make after it sunk at its mooring from snow load?). In any case, when the chips were down, the contract was full of disclaimers and warranties that there was no warranty. Interestingly when I want to look at a 'brokerage' boat from them about a year later, they offered me the same contract. They make no attempt to find out the history of any boat other than what is represented by the owner. They did not carry out a sea trial prior to listing the boat and had no idea what might work and what didn't. They did not report engine hours or opine on the condition of any equipment on board. They do not work in the same manner as a conventional broker and their offerings are what I usually consider bottom tier. I have not closely looked at the Mainship you are considering but from what I can see it looks like a typical offering from them

This is a company that if you decide to do business with, keep your eyes WIDE open. They are not crooks. Far from it. But their job is to maximize the sale price and sometimes that means they have to turn a blind eye to the obvious. But for a knowledgable buyer, you can usually make a deal. I did. But they play hardball. Be prepared to walk away if you are not getting a fantastic deal.

Finally, on a gas boat, PAY PARTICULAR ATTENTiON to the exhausts, especially the generator. I would hate to hear of another fatality of sleeping families lost to CO poisoning. This is not an issue so much with deisel.

Best of luck with this. Keep in mind there are a lot on Mainships for sale. Get the best one you can afford.

why is CO poisoning more of an issue with gas than diesel ?

Because diesels don't produce much CO at all like gas engines do.

Benthic2 said:

why is CO poisoning more of an issue with gas than diesel ?

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Comodave said:

Because diesels don't produce much CO at all like gas engines do.

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While that might be true in an absolute amount sense, even small amounts of CO are dangerous. I would still think the leaking of the more volatile gasoline fumes and their flammability at much lower temps is still the major concern. Hence the need to carefully inspect the fuel system, exhausts, and that there are sniffers, and bilge blowers in good working condition.

Deaths by CO poisoning from gasoline engines are fairly common. In fact it was/maybe still is a preferred method of suicide. Car running in closed garage. I haven't actually heard of one on a diesel boat. Maybe because other than lower doses of CO produced, the fumes are so smelly that people awake prior to being poisoned?

Gas produces ten times more CO than diesel. So, it's quantity that makes it more dangerous but there is danger in both.

Houseboats have been among the leading culprits as they've often had CO to accumulate inside. However, there's another situation that had been discovered after an extensive study of drownings on Lake Powell. A large percentage of drownings are now attributed to CO. Houseboats with dive/swim platforms and the exhaust from the gas generator comes out under the platform. So, unexplained drownings while swimming near the boats now have an explanation. They've found the high levels of CO in the victims systems. About half the Lake Powell drownings are not attributed to CO. Hundreds of cases of CO poisoning per year across the nation with many fatal.

Every boat needs a CO detector but more critical for gas. Note that boat engines don't have catalytic converters so one is equal to 166 cars.

Also, sometimes symptoms are considered to be seasickness but are actually CO poisoning. It's not just the instant exposure either but CO builds within one so continuous mild exposure can be a danger.

RT Firefly said:

Languishing? HAH! Bimini is SO bad if it weren't for the rest of my family (kids and grand kids) not being here I could quite readily "languish" right here for the rest of my days. Good food. Wonderful people both cruisers and locals. Walk pretty well everywhere and sunrises that start my days off with Zen. Life is good.

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Dear Mr RTF, may you please cease immediately this happiness porn, you make me depressed! :lol:

L.

Benthic2 said:

why is CO poisoning more of an issue with gas than diesel ?

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A gasoline engine throttles the air, a diesel does not. Therefore, the exhaust volume for a diesel is 2 or 4 times more than a gas engine. This greater volume per mass of fuel sufficiently dilutes the CO to lower and less toxic levels. This, for instance allows diesel engines to be safely used in underground mine, with ventilation of course. NA diesels pump less air than, a turbo, with resultant higher concentrations of CO but well less than a gasser.

A gas engine burns hotter than a diesel with just enough air to permit clean combustion. With the diesel's greater air volume per unit mass, thermal efficiency is about 30% more than a gas engine per equivalent fuel mass.

Hey everyone, just thought I'd update.

We are going to see the boat Saturday. We're flying a small plane tomorrow afternoon into Charleston. We've got a hotel downtown, so we're making it a little vacation. Downtown Charleston is a blast. We're meeting the broker at 9 am, and if all goes well, we're doing the river test at about 10, right around low tide.

We're excited. Should be a fun couple of days. We are completely prepared to walk away if there's something that we find during our inspection. If all is well, we'll make an offer contingent on the survey.

Steve91T said:

Hey everyone, just thought I'd update.

We are going to see the boat Saturday. We're flying a small plane tomorrow afternoon into Charleston. We've got a hotel downtown, so we're making it a little vacation. Downtown Charleston is a blast. We're meeting the broker at 9 am, and if all goes well, we're doing the river test at about 10, right around low tide.

We're excited. Should be a fun couple of days. We are completely prepared to walk away if there's something that we find during our inspection. If all is well, we'll make an offer contingent on the survey.

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Steve91T,

It's evident that you've learned a few things from this forum, even though yu may have disagreed a bit. I have also, but the overwhelming good knowledge from this group is priceless. And, it's also fun to debate what's best at times.

Hope this works out for you... it's your first "big" boat. It's a great beginner boat that you can beat up and sink and it won't cost you a fortune. Enjoy it and learn with it. I'm betting a few years down the road you'll be stepping up. That's exactly what many of us did.

I beat the heck out of my first "big" boat, and knew it was going to be a lesson. Loved the boat and had many good times, but from all the little mistakes I made, I learned so when I got the next one I was a better captain. Worked well.

Thanks Seevee. I absolutely did learn a lot. No doubt about that.

Yeah I think it will be a good starter boat. And we'll get a good idea of how we like boating life (we're going to love it).

Would it make sense to ask the broker to show you a few other boats while you are meeting with him ? That might give the appearance that you are not already in love with this boat ( even though you are ) That might help when it comes to the haggling portion of the buying process.

Steve91T said:

Hey everyone, just thought I'd update.

We are going to see the boat Saturday. We're flying a small plane tomorrow afternoon into Charleston. We've got a hotel downtown, so we're making it a little vacation. Downtown Charleston is a blast. We're meeting the broker at 9 am, and if all goes well, we're doing the river test at about 10, right around low tide.

We're excited. Should be a fun couple of days. We are completely prepared to walk away if there's something that we find during our inspection. If all is well, we'll make an offer contingent on the survey.

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It sounds like you're going to have a great time no matter what. Charleston is a great city. I wish you a great trip and the best of luck looking at this boat. Hopefully it's everything you want and more.

Ken

Hope it all works out . Charleston is a fun city . Love the architecture there .

Good luck, hope it works out for you.

I urge you to get a survey. I did and knew exactly what I was getting into.

I used to own a 24ft, Sea Ray 454 single gas engine. WAY too expensive. I do not know what the fuel capacity is on the boat you are looking at but hope it would be quite large. You will need it to get to the Bahamas. My current boat just got back from the Bahamas and I averaged 3 miles per gallon. (diesel) I personally would never own a gas engine again.

I wish you well on your search.