Life's Uncertain Drink the Wine Now

So, do I follow the "life's uncertain" advice and borrow the money now and buy the bigger cruising boat.* Or, do I wait the three years til I retire to buy the bigger cruising boat with less borrowed money?

Pro: I can have the boat now and the admiral will be happy.

Con: I could only be gone cruising about two weeks at a time now.

We are happy with our decision to do it now and make payments, but we are on our boat every weekend. Would you get any weekend use out of it?

Budds Outlet wrote:
So, do I follow the "life's uncertain" advice and borrow the money now and buy the bigger cruising boat.* Or, do I wait the three years til I retire to buy the bigger cruising boat with less borrowed money?

Pro: I can have the boat now and the admiral will be happy.

Con: I could only be gone cruising about two weeks at a time now.

Click to expand...

*I have done it the other way.* However, when one of our buddies from high school days died, he owed everybody he could.* When they lowered him into the grave, my other close high school buddy and I looked at each other.* We both said, "the little S_B won"!* * We still get a chuckle out of it today.

Lfe is short.* Enjoy what you can.

Budds Outlet wrote:
So, do I follow the "life's uncertain" advice and borrow the money now and buy the bigger cruising boat.* Or, do I wait the three years til I retire to buy the bigger cruising boat with less borrowed money?

Click to expand...

Everyone has their own life philosophy.* I*follow the advice of a self-made businessman who was a family friend who had*started and run*a number of very successful businesses including Telecheck.* When I was fresh out of college his advice to me was "Never finance your toys."* And I never have.

But what works for one person may not work for another. So there is no right or wrong answer.* If you are saying you can only use a boat about two weeks a year now, if it was me I'd wait until I could use it more often and pay cash.* If you are saying you can use the boat year round but not be gone more than two weeks at a time, that might change things a bit..* We use our boat year round but my work schedule limits us to one or two longer cruises per year.* We take lots of two and three day trips throughout the year assuming my travel schedule and the wind both cooperate.

However, I would still pay cash for a boat as it very definitely qualifies as a "toy."

Pineapple Girl wrote:
We are happy with our decision to do it now and make payments, but we are on our boat every weekend. Would you get any weekend use out of it?

Click to expand...

*We would have lots of weekend*time on board*and probably at lunch as I work only blocks from where the boat would be moored.* I could see us meeting on the boat for lunch.

We are both in good health now but I hear so many stories about people my age and younger dying unexpectedly.* Today a buddy told about his brother in law who was diagnosed just three weeks ago with an organ failure and he will be gone within the next week.

This weekend I observed an elderly fellow on the fly bridge of an anchored*boat reading by himself.* I did not see any companion.* I don't want to wait until that is me.

just keep in mind if you need to sell the boat for whatever reason it may take a long time.
Steve W

Marin wrote:*

Click to expand...

However, I would still pay cash for a boat as it very definitely qualifies as a "toy."

*Yes, particularly since it is a depreciating toy that is expensive to maintain.

Do it now... you could get hit by a bus next month..

I had a good friend that was a Orthopedic surgeon... he never understood my boat habit until he got cancer.. and died 3 months later at 36 years of age.

I shut down a very successful business at 30 to sail the Pacific for a few years.. no regrets

In five years I will be doing the same thing again.. having taken 20 years to build a second successful business

If you get hit by that proverbial bus in a year .. will the money you spent on enjoying a boat with your family seem like money waisted?

HOLLYWOOD

*

Budds Outlet wrote:
We are both in good health now but I hear so many stories about people my age and younger dying unexpectedly.*

Click to expand...

*To quote Paul Newman from the movie "Hombre," "We all die.* It's just a matter of when."

While there is something to the notion of "do it now, I could be dead tomorrow," this could lead one into making some really bad decisions, financial or otherwise.* I figure i'm going to die when I die and leading my life in anticipation of the potential of this is foolish.* I choose to do what makes the most sense at the time.

Now what I don't think someone should do is put things off*because of an extreme fear of risk.* An example being my late*mother who, like many people her age, had her whole life influenced by the Great Depression.* I think deep down these folks lived in fear of the Depression coming back, so they were very reluctant to stretch themselves financially even though they might be able to do so.* So my mother never bought a house in Hawaii--- we always rented--- even though if she had bought a house in the 50s when we moved there I would be a bazillionaire today.* She put off taking trips to Europe for fear of the cost.* "I'll do that someday," she'd say.* She did go one time but could not bring herself to spend the money to go again.

This is a big reason why my wife and I have done as much as we could--- within our financial means--- as soon as we could.* Flying floatplanes up the Passage into the back country in BC and SE Alaska, running narrowboats in the UK, buying our first small fishing boat, buying the Grand Banks, etc., etc., etc.* We never put off something interesting until tomorrow that we can't manage to do today.

BUT.... we have never deviated from the "never finance your toys" rule and we have never come down on the overly risky side of a decision.

Everyone is different. There are no right or wrong answers to how one lives their lives, only different answers. What works best for you is what works best for you.* But I personally*don't think taking a risk because "I might be dead tomorrow" is quite the best reason for taking the risk.* But that's just me.

In retrospect I have found that throughout my whole life thus far, every big decision I have made has always "felt" right.* That gut feeling if you will.* Even if I could come up with a stack of reasons why I shoudn't do something, if doing it "felt right in my gut," and I acted on that, it has always turned out to be the right thing to do.* Unfortunately the only person who can define what "feeling right" feels like is you


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 21st of July 2011 09:46:56 PM

I am in the live a financially responsible life camp. I am also in the you only live once camp. The trick is to live your dreams to their fullest while still being prudent and realistic. Whether to finance or not really depends on your overall financial health. If you are making money like crazy, heck, finance it- who cares. If things are tight, don't finance. If you are still making good money but just don't want to deal with payments, pay cash. I vote pay cash but buy now!

Fear keeps so many from living their dreams.

"So, do I follow the "life's uncertain" advice and borrow the money now and buy the bigger cruising boat. Or, do I wait the three years til I retire to buy the bigger cruising boat with less borrowed money?":

IF you figure this admin will be successful in destroying the value of the currency to reduce the debt burden , By now pay with cheap to worthless currency. QE 3 ,4,5,6,7?

IF you figure the current deflation (price of things ,boats , houses) will continue the price will be cheaper in a few years , buy then.

Do not confuse price increases caused by supply / demand with inflation.

Inflating away debt was the classic solution , but the USA is no longer alone as a financial power , and may not be allowed to use this ploy .


-- Edited by FF on Friday 22nd of July 2011 03:44:41 AM

You're never really free until you're debt free. Then you can start living life as it's meant to be lived.

At least personal debt free. The gummit keeps building debt for me in the background though. I send it in every paycheck and on April 15. :-(

As others have said, there are a few WRONG answers, but there are also many RIGHT answers too, or answers that only differ in philosophical aspects.
Our first trawler (Marine Trader 34' Aft Cabin, Whistful), was purchased due to the "Life's uncertain" approach. We had looked at the boat, could easily (KEY WORD) afford the payment of $350/mo., and were on the fence. That weekend, a woman my wife worked with passed away. She was at work Thurs, called in sick Fri, hospital Sat, passed away on Monday. We bought the boat the next weekend.

We have never regretted that decision. We currently own a motorhome...coincidentally, the payment is the same , and we don't regret that decision either. It has taken us to Nova Scotia, all over the Northeast, and we have built many new friendships while using the "boat on wheels".

That being said, we drive used cars, NEVER buy new ANYTHING, and tend to be conservative about our debt. It would have taken me 10-15yrs to save enough money to buy the motorhome, and at my age, not likely at that point. Yes, it's a depreciating asset, just like the boat will likely be, but buying a trawler that's 30yrs old, it's depreciation curve is fairly flat at this point. We also only finance roughly %50 of the purchase price, so we're not upside down on anything coming out of the gate. These are fairly common sense rules

Btw...we're in a similar situation now...looking at boats, as we know we want to buy a trawler within the next 3yrs latest...so buy now?...next year?...

Bottom line, that decision is a good problem to have. Many have other problems that are not so easily solved.


Jim

The reasons I decided to finance and buy my boat five years before retirement are:

1. Test out the boat to make sure I liked the vessel and the boating/cruising lifestyle. I figure it is better to find out early than later. If the boat is not the right one for us, I'd still have time to correct that before retirement.
2. Get a good feel for the expenses needed to maintain the boat and the boating lifestyle.
3. Make the needed repairs and desired improvements to the boat during my working years when I have more available income to spend.
4. Get to know the boat systems and a better feel for the reliability of the vessel before committing to any long trips in retirement.
5. If I like the lifestyle, I get an extra 5 years of boating in before retirement. If I don't like it, I have time to develop other interests that I would like to pursue in retirement.
6. Pay off loan while still working so I start retirement with no debt.

I am very happy that I bought the boat when I did. I have found the boat to be a good (not perfect) fit for my needs and wants and have been thoroughly enjoying boat ownership and all that comes with that. If anything, it has increased my desire to retire at my eligibility date so I can enjoy the boating without those pesky employment requirements (like going to work) getting in the way.

Moonstruck wrote:However, when one of our buddies from high school days died, he owed everybody he could.* When they lowered him into the grave, my other close high school buddy and I looked at each other.* We both said, "the little S_B won"!*

* We still get a chuckle out of it today.

Click to expand...

Lfe is short.* Enjoy what you can.

*I like that!* However, if you leave a wife in Texas the estate will still owe that money.

*

*

*

*

*

Like I said, I like that!

Jim, We seem to be living parallel lives. However, it was my mother's diagnosis of Alzheimer's that lit the fire under us. I disagree with people that think the religion of being debt-free is somehow more noble than those of us that are able to manage our finances. Without debt, there are many things people can enjoy in life. Just like anything, it's a matter of personal preference.

If you want a boat... GET ONE! Life is certainly uncertain.

GonzoF1 wrote:
Jim, We seem to be living parallel lives. However, it was my mother's diagnosis of Alzheimer's that lit the fire under us. I disagree with people that think the religion of being debt-free is somehow more noble than those of us that are able to manage our finances. Without debt, there are many things people can enjoy in life. Just like anything, it's a matter of personal preference.

If you want a boat... GET ONE! Life is certainly uncertain.

Click to expand...

*I am in Marin's camp as far as financing toys, or for that matter, anything of a personal purchase.* However, situations can change.* Talk about life being short, when my wife was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer,* she wanted to move up to a 55' Fleming to accomodate our whole family with grandkids.** It would have involved financing a portion, but we were looking.* I was willing for her sake.* We may have lost some money on the deal, but after she passed it could be sold.* Unfortunately, she didn't last long enough to get it done.* It would have been worderful for her.* Now, I need that size boat like a hole in the head.

Noble?* Why would one way be considered more noble?* Life is about choices.* Hopefully, they are responsible ones.

"The persuit of passion is never futile."-Oscar Wilde

I love the idea of buying your toys for cash, but in today's market, there are deals out there to be had. In the twenty years we have been boating I've never seen such a buyers market. So I have to follow the school of thought to say, if your working and the toy won't break the bank, you'll save enough on the purchase price to cover the interest cost. Have to agree with Flywright on buying the boat sooner, begin to enjoy it sooner, hell we are looking to move aboard within 60 days and rent out our piece of dirt for a few years while we continue to work. The dirt payment will cover both expenses...the house and the boat. Which is an unexpected plus.

Bottom line, do the math make sure it works. Many folks work their whole like retire and die. I see our next 2-3 year and preparing to retire and cruise. getting to know the boat ,the systems, make repairs while we are still employed and enjoy our time on the water. Can't recommend our plan for everyone..

BUT IT WORKS FOR US

"Never finance your toys."

I really like that!

Dswizzler wrote:
*we are looking to move aboard within 60 days and rent out our piece of dirt for a few years while we continue to work. The dirt payment will cover both expenses...the house and the boat. Which is an unexpected plus.

Click to expand...

*Hey that doesn't sound so crazy! We're pondering renting out my office space in one of the commercial buildings I own. *Tenant's (very stable tenant I might add) rent next door already pays for the mortgage of that building and taxes too. *If I rent my office that rent will cover all ownership carry costs of our house. *Then I rent my house out and that covers all the cost of the slip fees, fuel, and insurance for the boat. *Sell the Monk and pay cash for one of the 50' 3 stateroom trawlers we have been pondering. * That also frees us up to "move" to a town we really like and spend more and more time at already without having to buy a house before we know if we really like living there as we can live on the boat for a season and see what we think and take our time shopping for a house there. *Hmmm..........

How does my wife put up with me??!! *

Trawler buyers are like their boats, slow and steady and think nothing of researching for 1, 2, or more years before their next purchase. That is fine with me as the people I met 2 or 3 years ago might be buying now! But each year without fail one or more of my potential boat buyers tells me that something has come up, usually a health issue, and they tell me they can not buy now.
I could not possibly tell this to a client in person, "Buy now cause you might die or be too sick to buy later," but I can post it here.

"Buy now cause you might die or be too sick to buy later"

I think I saw a similar version of that on list of "Worst pick up lines ever".....

Finance has been a big factor living on/owning our 58 ft boat. If we did not live on the eagle we could not justify the cost, but being its our home changes things. **Every paid day we have invested into/for our retirement, which comes out first and what remains we lived on and/or be able to help our children and grandchildren. If we could not afford the 58 ft boat we would not have bought it and/or still own it, but better than living on the dirt.
*
The boat we have used and enjoyed the most is our 19 ft run about trailered, we bought in 1978, for 3 grand, which we use thought the year and moored behind the 58 ft boat.* Been a great boat with a 140 hp Merc OB which is plenty of power for lake and sound water sports and fishing. ***In the winter we put it back on the trailer and indoor dry store it, so there is not concerns/up keep, like having a boat in the water.* Still the 19 ft run about is still my favorite boat and the best memories/times.
*
*
My dad just passed away, he was 94, so we are entering a new phase in our life.* There is presently nothing really holding us back except maybe health insurance to throw off the lines.* However, stage in live, health, finance responsibility are major factors that only you can answer.

Drink the wine now? Just had a bottle of '88 Giuseppe Rinaldi Barolo last night -- one of the best wines I have ever tasted. But I paid cash for it when it was released in 1990!

dvd

That is a tough question dude.
Although I am financuially responsible, every so often you just have to roll the dice.

You want a real life story....well here it is.

We were ready to cruise on my Catalina 30 Sailboat in 2004. I was 57 years old then. My wifes family got sick on us. First her mother then her sister that takes care of her mother - trip cancelled. Then in 2005 Hurricane Katrina claimed our boat. In 2006 we bought our present Ketch. We had big plans because we now had a world cruiser.
That year and the following years - with an emphasis on the plural "s" in years, the illnesses kept coming and going with her family and her having to take care of them. Then the economy went down the tubes and work was slow. So, now here we are in 2011. I'm 64 and wife is 71. BTW, if anyone repeats her age, I will hunt you down like a dog and show no mercy. Anyway, she no longer likes the sailboat because she cant help with the rigging when 'stuff' happens. We missed our sailing window in life - plain and simple. Personally, I think trawlers are a great way to spend the rest of our lives so that is what we intend to do. Providing no one else gets sick including us.

My advice to you is if you want to go cruising in a few years, dont just consider your physical condition. Think about the age and physical conditions of those close to you and what kind of shape they will be in when you are ready to cruise.

If everything is good, GO NOW !!!!!

Man, TonyB, your wife really robbed the cradle, didn't she? ;-)

Sounds like good advice. Consider your limitations and...

Carpe diem!

Tony B wrote:
I will hunt you down like a dog and show no mercy.

Click to expand...

*Dog hunting?!?!????

GonzoF1 wrote:Tony B wrote:
I will hunt you down like a dog and show no mercy.

Click to expand...

*Dog hunting?!?!????

*Actually I like dogs. Taste like chicken.