MichaelB1969
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Beer Camp eh? Had to look that one up.
Sounds like fun. If I can make it I'll be sure to reach out beforehand!
Just got hit head-on by a sailboat
- Thread starter MichaelB1969
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Beer Camp eh? Had to look that one up.
Sounds like fun. If I can make it I'll be sure to reach out beforehand!
MichaelB1969
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Just got hit head on by a sailboat
Because the guy who quoted me is doing it on the side. He works for a nearby yard and does side work nights and weekends. The guy who owns the boat across from my slip highly recommended him. Ironically he gave me his contract information a week before this happened. Didn't think I'd need him so soon!!!!
I may also get another estimate just to see if there's general agreement.
Because the guy who quoted me is doing it on the side. He works for a nearby yard and does side work nights and weekends. The guy who owns the boat across from my slip highly recommended him. Ironically he gave me his contract information a week before this happened. Didn't think I'd need him so soon!!!!
I may also get another estimate just to see if there's general agreement.
No, please no. No side deals. Insurance company with boatyard, not personal check with mechanic doing it on the side. Doing it this way, who do you go back to if there are other problems?
This is the type thing daytime tv courts are filled with. Guy promises to pay but it's more than he was told and he refuses. Mechanic on side, got into it and more work and wanted more money, or fixed it but not right.
Best way for this is insurance company with open claim with yard, agreeing to an estimate the yard makes but open to the possibility the yard will call saying they found more.
Now, if you're comfortable taking all the risks, then proceed as you're headed. Just understand you are taking the risks on you completely.
healhustler
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Totally agree. We were hit by a sailboat while we were docked behind our residence and sleeping aboard. The sailboat apparently lost his anchor in the small anchorage behind our home during a sudden squall, sideswiped us, then got the boat started in time to get enough control and escape the anchorage. It was so dark that we could do little else but race around and check for hull breaches. It was a sickening impact with a long, resounding scrape the full length of the hull. I got to one of the stateroom portlights quick enough to see the bow scrape by only inches from my nose. I caught a glimpse of several shadows scrambling on the sailboat's deck as it faded into the darkness. He was already heading into Biscayne Bay when I got on deck, so it was too late to get a name anyway. It was still blowing like hell, so he probably had to do what he did to keep control of his boat. Come daybreak, I was able to survey the damage. Fortunately, it tured ot to be the sailboat that got the worst of it. It must have gotten underneath our stainless rub rail because there were wood splinters stuck beneath the entire length of the starboard rail. Cost to us was about 500 bucks including a pair of glasses I dropped in the water in the caos. Just one of those things.
MichaelB1969
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I'm actually pretty risk averse, so I'll need to have a high comfort factor regardless. I'm talking to a few owners on my dock that have used him and speak highly of his work. His reputation for good work is what's appealing, not the fact that he does it on the side or is a bargain (which I don't think is the case).
Benthic2
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The only advantage to getting it done by a guy as a side job is to save money.....but you won't be paying for this. You'll be taking a huge risk to save someone else money. If this guy is so good you really want him to do it....take it to him at his main job. Some insurance companies will only pay a legitimate repair facility...they won't cut a check to the you because some people would be tempted to keep the money and not have the work done...then they are insuring a boat for more than its worth.
And why isn't sailboat insurance involved? Why talking the owner paying you?
Now, does he not do the same work in the yard he works for? Just as well? But with a business to hold accountable and one that is properly insured and licensed, one that an insurer would be willing to deal with?
MichaelB1969
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You raise good points. I'll give it some thought. I sent a few emails to other yards today with photos of the damage so I'll see what they have to say.
sunchaser
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Michael
Suggest you rethink having it done on the side, for many reasons as previously suggested. Also a good yard will stand behind their work, which on your new boat I'm sure you'll want.
Suggest you rethink having it done on the side, for many reasons as previously suggested. Also a good yard will stand behind their work, which on your new boat I'm sure you'll want.
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DO Not proceed down this path unless you enjoy pain.
Yup!
See my earlier comment re "pain".
Again, yup!
If I may be direct- the only way to handle this should be thru the offending party's insurance. There is no reason for there to be "side deals" to complete this type of repair.
Do it once, do it right. How do you warrant under the table repairs?
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Doubtless Michael B was trying to reciprocate the helpful attitude the offending boat owner was taking, by minimizing the cost.
Why is there a problem dealing with the culprit rather than his insurer? It`s the offender`s prerogative to call on his insurer, or not, The relationship between offender and insurer is a contract to which Michael is not a party.
But, I don`t think this is the time to cut corners by getting the work done "on the side", unless you are really comfortable doing it this way and so committed it would strain the so far satisfactory responses of the offender, better to do it the proper way.
Why is there a problem dealing with the culprit rather than his insurer? It`s the offender`s prerogative to call on his insurer, or not, The relationship between offender and insurer is a contract to which Michael is not a party.
But, I don`t think this is the time to cut corners by getting the work done "on the side", unless you are really comfortable doing it this way and so committed it would strain the so far satisfactory responses of the offender, better to do it the proper way.
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when it comes to vessel repairs, I prefer to not cut corners and do it right. Certainly, the OP has the right to do as he best sees fit- as I see it, I'd rather have the repair done correctly by a shop that can be held accountable should it be necesssry. Also, the damage may be more substantial than viewed, and take additional time to repair correctly.
The guy working on the side may be rushed to get the job done, as it's a side gig. This speed requirement may lead to a shoddy repair.
The guy working on the side may be rushed to get the job done, as it's a side gig. This speed requirement may lead to a shoddy repair.
Several reasons.
-The insurer is likely to reach agreement with a trustworthy boatyard that pays the estimated value but leaves it open for additional repairs if necessary. If the yard notifies them of additional findings they'll listen.
-It is very common for the other party to agree to pay but then along the way there are issues. Often it costs more than they agreed to and they say forget about it and refuse to pay more. Sometimes they don't trust the yard or the yard doesn't trust them.
-The yard will sometimes agree to an amount with the insurer but not require it to be paid in advance, which gives the insurer the ability to get you to sign off on the work before they pay or before they close the case. On an individual, you don't surrender your right to sign off but getting more money is very hard.
-Insurers are use to hidden damage. Individuals often are not.
Because there is no legal requirement for insurance on a boat, you are correct that it's the offenders prerogative. Your only protection there is to make sure your insurer is aware of the damage and the claim and has approved the agreement with the yard. The reason is that if the other party doesn't pay your insurer will and then they can go after the other party. If they don't, then they lose but you don't, assuming the other party paid you enough to cover the deductible. However, if you're left holding the bag and have to go after the other party that gets expensive. I would definitely make sure my own insurance was aware and approving the process. They are your protection.
On the road it's very common for one party to say to the other that they'll take care of it, don't want to run it through their insurance. About 50% of those times, from what I've been told by someone in the industry, there are ultimately problems.
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Never-the-less, ideally this is done as BandB said. You leave it to the insurance co to organise unless they give express permission for you to choose the repairer, in which case the bill should still be submitted fully itemised to that insurance co. and not through you, and no 'deals' on the side should be entered into, no matter how good the recommendations. I'm sure Pau Hana would agree.
PS. Yes, he did, I just missed that post.
Note to self, read all the posts on a thread before leaping into print.
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Never-the-less, ideally this is done as BandB said. You leave it to the insurance co to organise unless they give express permission for you to choose the repairer, in which case the bill should still be submitted fully itemised to that insurance co. and not through you, and no 'deals' on the side should be entered into, no matter how good the recommendations. I'm sure Pau Hana would agree.
PS. Yes, he did, I just missed that post.
Agree I do!
ranger58sb
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I deal with boat claims on a daily basis. If I believed much of what is written here I would fold up the tent and go home. However, most of the comments are based on some truths and this mixture of conjecture and truths is the basis of major nightmares.
Acheron2010
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IF it was my boat, and the other guy was paying, I would take it to KKMI.
BandB
That's not entirely correct, but a lot of big businesses would want you to believe that. negotiated with a higher up in a fortune 300 company that sued my company over an equipment lease that I didn't pay. He was a gentleman and easy to talk to. I simply showed him fraudulent documents that his sales person had created for a maintenance contract and he ended up giving me the equipment to end this deal. It was a long crazy deal, but the lawyers were basically on the back burner, to file necessary papers.
I've had another dock company that I was in court with and I negotiated right with the owner, and not his lawyer. I offered a settlement to make it go away which was refused, and glad. Because in fighting this I had the county inspector testify that it was not installed to code, and the guy folded.
All this stuff is a PITA, and there's a strong argument to avoid if at all possible.
But, I'm glad to be out of business.... takes WAY too much time away from boating.
Pau,
Nice to hear from a professional in the insurance business.
I could make a strong argument to keep this simple, get it over with and go on with life. Seems like the sailor is cooperating and that's the person I'd deal with, not his insurance co. Make sense?
Another point...
There's been some implication that someone doing a job on the side is incompetent, illegitimate, not licensed, insured and will botch the job. Nothing could be further from the truth.
First, a license and insurance will not guarantee anything, or prevent a lousy job or incompetent work.
Second, it's the skill of the actual person doing the work and HIS integrity that will guarantee a job well done. (And if a company is run right, they will hold him responsible and provide the back up for a good job)
Third, there's nothing better than talking with the guy who will do the work. Gives a complete understanding of what will be done, issues, follow ups right from the guy who is doing the work.
Forth, I could STRONGLY argue that one will get better quality, more timely service and a better job dealing with small companies and individuals that with a big marina.
Two of my main mechanics are individuals, both very sharp and do good work. But talking directly with them is a HUGE benefit. I save TIME, but not a lot of money. The money I save is in buying my own parts.
There's been some implication that someone doing a job on the side is incompetent, illegitimate, not licensed, insured and will botch the job. Nothing could be further from the truth.
First, a license and insurance will not guarantee anything, or prevent a lousy job or incompetent work.
Second, it's the skill of the actual person doing the work and HIS integrity that will guarantee a job well done. (And if a company is run right, they will hold him responsible and provide the back up for a good job)
Third, there's nothing better than talking with the guy who will do the work. Gives a complete understanding of what will be done, issues, follow ups right from the guy who is doing the work.
Forth, I could STRONGLY argue that one will get better quality, more timely service and a better job dealing with small companies and individuals that with a big marina.
Two of my main mechanics are individuals, both very sharp and do good work. But talking directly with them is a HUGE benefit. I save TIME, but not a lot of money. The money I save is in buying my own parts.
83 posts and I still cant understand. If your insured and get hit by another boat and that other boat was at fault why not just let the insurance company's work it out ?? Then if the damage isn't repaired to a high standard or faults appear in the repair some time later its still the insurance company problem not the owner ???
dhays
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I agree.
This is why you have coverage, so you need to get out of the equation and let your adjuster take over. You can oversee the work done and complain if the quality does not measure up, but as far as responsibilities go, none of that is for you to worry about.
RT Firefly
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Greetings,
It's my understanding that once an insurance claim is paid out one is required to sign off on the claim with no further expectation of remuneration.
It's my understanding that once an insurance claim is paid out one is required to sign off on the claim with no further expectation of remuneration.
Your key comment was "sign off". That comes after seeing the results and also can be a conditional sign off, subject to any other undiscovered damage which must be found within x time.
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As BandB stated, this is correct- however, resultant/consequential damage found later can be means to reopen the claim.
