New to me 50, Steel full displacement, engine questions
- Thread starter Obie
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Hello all. Exciting news. I have launch her in the Columbia. And I'm now making my way back up towards Portland. She has a lot of white smoke on start up. That clears out after 30 minutes or so. I'm thinking it is the old fuel. I need to research ways to rejuvenate the old fuel. I put additives in it but it has not been enough I guess. First thing I will do is run the rack and give her a good tuneup and see if that helps first. I have over 2000 gallons I'm bored so anything other than burning it would be tough.
Other than the smoke she seems to be running well. I'm fighting at least two knots of current and I'm doing about 6 kn pretty easily. I have not solved the hydraulic issue yet. Will pull a valve when I get back to Portland to take to spencers. Did anchor already once. And the manual part of the windless works extremely well. It was very easy to retrieve the ground tackle.
Other than the smoke she seems to be running well. I'm fighting at least two knots of current and I'm doing about 6 kn pretty easily. I have not solved the hydraulic issue yet. Will pull a valve when I get back to Portland to take to spencers. Did anchor already once. And the manual part of the windless works extremely well. It was very easy to retrieve the ground tackle.
RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Mr. O. WELL DONE!
Mr. O. WELL DONE!
Nomad Willy
Guru
Obie,
She sure looks good.
Close to a perfect sea boat she appears.
Why the anti-foul paint up so high. Would be nice to see her WL.
But seeing her any way is good.
I like the big Danforth (or is it a Dan) hanging in the hawse pipe.
Seems a boat that needs more than river water to flex her bottom.
She sure looks good.
Close to a perfect sea boat she appears.
Why the anti-foul paint up so high. Would be nice to see her WL.
But seeing her any way is good.
I like the big Danforth (or is it a Dan) hanging in the hawse pipe.
Seems a boat that needs more than river water to flex her bottom.
dfharris02
Member
She's a beauty! Did you get a special surveyor since she was steel, did they measure the thickness of the plates?
I had to paint the bottom that high, that was how she was done before. And really she sits pretty beep. There is not more than 6 inches showing except the bow.
I can not wait to get her on the ocean. She dose need some salt. I am in so much current right now it's hard to say how she is doing. I am at the dock in rainear. It is ripping has to be around 4 knots.
Yes I had the hull ultra sounded. She is 1/4 thick plate except bottom which is thicker. The hull came out in excellent condition. The feast of the boat came out in exelent condition also, but I have upgraded many things in the last 45 days. It was a marithon to get this all done so quickly.
Obie
I can not wait to get her on the ocean. She dose need some salt. I am in so much current right now it's hard to say how she is doing. I am at the dock in rainear. It is ripping has to be around 4 knots.
Yes I had the hull ultra sounded. She is 1/4 thick plate except bottom which is thicker. The hull came out in excellent condition. The feast of the boat came out in exelent condition also, but I have upgraded many things in the last 45 days. It was a marithon to get this all done so quickly.
Obie
FF
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"She has a lot of white smoke on start up."
White smoke is usually low compression.
IF the smoke leaves as the circ water increases looking at the temperatures to clear the exhaust will show how worked the engine is. 110F great engine , 160F getting on in life.180F time for an overhaul,eventually.
Many times the lower compression is from rust from sitting unused that will pit the cylinders.
Single weight oil and use will help with white smoke.
You may find after a hundred hours of use the smoke is way reduced.
An early DD with H injectors will smoke ALL the time , normal for that era.
White smoke is usually low compression.
IF the smoke leaves as the circ water increases looking at the temperatures to clear the exhaust will show how worked the engine is. 110F great engine , 160F getting on in life.180F time for an overhaul,eventually.
Many times the lower compression is from rust from sitting unused that will pit the cylinders.
Single weight oil and use will help with white smoke.
You may find after a hundred hours of use the smoke is way reduced.
An early DD with H injectors will smoke ALL the time , normal for that era.
It is an early DD. It's actually a gray marine. The water temp never gets over 120. Well maybe 130 after 4 hours of use. It is also a slow start if cold. Maybe having to crank for 15 seconds or so. I have had a J&T 6-71. It smoked at start for a few minutes. But not like this.
I also need to find a place to put on a remote oil filter. It has a huge luberfiner. But it never gets worm at all, so not much oil is going through it.
Any help would be great, this is my next project.
Obie
The white smoke is a cloud. Enough to make neighbors complain.
I also need to find a place to put on a remote oil filter. It has a huge luberfiner. But it never gets worm at all, so not much oil is going through it.
Any help would be great, this is my next project.
Obie
The white smoke is a cloud. Enough to make neighbors complain.
FF
Guru
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The old Grey Marine DD are basically the same as the DD of the era.
120F is WAY too cold 160-180 would be normal.
There are a pair of thermostats in the engine , have you looked to see if they are installed?
What is the cooling system? Please explain what is installed.
Pull off the valve cover and look at the injectors installed.
Depending on age the H series should be installed.
IF someone "upgraded " to the N series that could be your starting problem, they are not interchangeable with out different "high compression" pistons.
If you find N injectors in an engine not built for them , its no big deal, rebuilt injectors are $35-$40 each , you will need to purchase Da Book and a timing pin (about $10. at DD) for the injectors .Also purchase spare jumper struts which are tubing fuel feeds that can leak from over tightening.
R&R the injectors is not a difficult job if you have auto or M'cycle experience.
The harder part is "running the rack" which is setting all the injectors to operate in harmony. Nothing difficult , just a bit of a touch as you do the work.
Simplest is to adjust everything twice , as a check.
Da Book explains it in detail , but IF you can find a real DD guy its better to watch over his shoulder the first time.
I believe if you can get the engine temperatures up to normal , your white smoke hassle will leave.
Do you have a book to work from?
The best is the student handbook from WWII (purchase on line) as it explains the engines and trannys in great (and easy ) detail. The newer DD books suck, as they are built for mechanics , not students.
120F is WAY too cold 160-180 would be normal.
There are a pair of thermostats in the engine , have you looked to see if they are installed?
What is the cooling system? Please explain what is installed.
Pull off the valve cover and look at the injectors installed.
Depending on age the H series should be installed.
IF someone "upgraded " to the N series that could be your starting problem, they are not interchangeable with out different "high compression" pistons.
If you find N injectors in an engine not built for them , its no big deal, rebuilt injectors are $35-$40 each , you will need to purchase Da Book and a timing pin (about $10. at DD) for the injectors .Also purchase spare jumper struts which are tubing fuel feeds that can leak from over tightening.
R&R the injectors is not a difficult job if you have auto or M'cycle experience.
The harder part is "running the rack" which is setting all the injectors to operate in harmony. Nothing difficult , just a bit of a touch as you do the work.
Simplest is to adjust everything twice , as a check.
Da Book explains it in detail , but IF you can find a real DD guy its better to watch over his shoulder the first time.
I believe if you can get the engine temperatures up to normal , your white smoke hassle will leave.
Do you have a book to work from?
The best is the student handbook from WWII (purchase on line) as it explains the engines and trannys in great (and easy ) detail. The newer DD books suck, as they are built for mechanics , not students.
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She is keel cooled. There is a valve to the keel cooler that I could turn down to restrict the flow? I need to get some gaskets before I start opening up to many things. She runs smooth.
I pulled the valve cover and in white letters on the side of the injectors it says
Remanufacture B0329. Dose that tell you anything? Also stamped on the top of the injectors it says 30249.
Obie
I pulled the valve cover and in white letters on the side of the injectors it says
Remanufacture B0329. Dose that tell you anything? Also stamped on the top of the injectors it says 30249.
Obie
O C Diver
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For my grey marine, I removed the stock oil filter and bulkhead mounted a dual remote oil filter bracket for race cars that took standard spin on oil filters. Replaced the stock thermostats and was able to get them at Napa. 168 degrees comes to mind, but that was 25 years ago.
Ted
Ted
FF
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"She is keel cooled."
I suggest you check weather the std thermostats are installed, sounds like there not.
I would install a bypass thermostat in the keel cooling .
This will connect the engine out to the return in.
It will stabilize the engine temps .
I do not have a DD parts book , so have no idea what the injector numbers equal.
The DD dealer will be able to tell from the engine serial number if its a low compression or high compression engine.
The only difference is the top piston ring is higher in the piston , creating "high compression".
I suggest you purchase a copy of "Students Manual Grey Marine Diesels"
I have 3rd edition ,
https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=&tn=students%20manual%20gray%20marine%20diesels&cm_sp=mbc-_-ats-_-all
https://www.google.com/search?q=stu...=SFP_WOHANsbbmwH_x7TABQ#imgrc=BK3JIVfBddHunM:
The best $20 you will ever spend!
I suggest you check weather the std thermostats are installed, sounds like there not.
I would install a bypass thermostat in the keel cooling .
This will connect the engine out to the return in.
It will stabilize the engine temps .
I do not have a DD parts book , so have no idea what the injector numbers equal.
The DD dealer will be able to tell from the engine serial number if its a low compression or high compression engine.
The only difference is the top piston ring is higher in the piston , creating "high compression".
I suggest you purchase a copy of "Students Manual Grey Marine Diesels"
I have 3rd edition ,
https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=&tn=students%20manual%20gray%20marine%20diesels&cm_sp=mbc-_-ats-_-all
https://www.google.com/search?q=stu...=SFP_WOHANsbbmwH_x7TABQ#imgrc=BK3JIVfBddHunM:
The best $20 you will ever spend!
Last edited:
I am thinking I will put a filter in line with the oil cooler. This is the only place I can see we're this would work. If anyone has any insight for this please let me know. I am thinking it would be the return after the oil cooler?
Obie
Obie
Ski in NC
Technical Guru
Post a bunch of photos of the engine from various angles. Show KC plumbing and oil lines. Too many issues being kicked around.
If oil filter stays cold, it might be plumbed backwards. Trace out oil lines. Might be able to determine this via photo.
Injector should have a tag pressed into the side of body. You sort of have to look under the rack to view it when installed. Looking for something like "HV9" or "N70".
If oil filter stays cold, it might be plumbed backwards. Trace out oil lines. Might be able to determine this via photo.
Injector should have a tag pressed into the side of body. You sort of have to look under the rack to view it when installed. Looking for something like "HV9" or "N70".
FF
Guru
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With 40+ years with only an oil bypass "color" filter , the engine life will not go up with an added filter.
The stock filter is amazing . Our DD coaches would have black oil , even on the start after an oil change.
The Grey Marine keeps the oil fresh and only goes golden at about 50 hours.
Why mess with success?
The stock filter is amazing . Our DD coaches would have black oil , even on the start after an oil change.
The Grey Marine keeps the oil fresh and only goes golden at about 50 hours.
Why mess with success?
So the Florence A is coming along nicely. I am in the final stages of putting in a hydronic heat system. And have almost finished the installation of a JD 4300 motor.
I am just beginning to look into Autopilot’s. I want to h@ve joystick steaming, with autopilot. Right now the boat is Machanicly steered, with a few large gear boxes, and a shaft. It has a clutch so it can be disconnected.
I am looking for a hydraulic reversing pump large enough to do the job, and heavy enough to last for years. I plan on building a bracket on the rudder shaft and use 2 standers hydraulic cylinders. I want to use mostly parts I can pick up at a local store anywhere.
Any ideas would be greatly participated. I was considering using a clutch pump off the motor, with a directional valve. But would prefer a system that can have small inputs, not just on or off.
Obie
I am just beginning to look into Autopilot’s. I want to h@ve joystick steaming, with autopilot. Right now the boat is Machanicly steered, with a few large gear boxes, and a shaft. It has a clutch so it can be disconnected.
I am looking for a hydraulic reversing pump large enough to do the job, and heavy enough to last for years. I plan on building a bracket on the rudder shaft and use 2 standers hydraulic cylinders. I want to use mostly parts I can pick up at a local store anywhere.
Any ideas would be greatly participated. I was considering using a clutch pump off the motor, with a directional valve. But would prefer a system that can have small inputs, not just on or off.
Obie
sunchaser
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Odie
Simrad and Furuno make good AP electric operated reversing pumps. It is an entire system though with hydraulic ram, rudder feedback sender, properly sized lines, AP unit, compass and pump sized to work properly together.
The best AP website I've seen and used is Furuno's. Lots of schematics and tutorials to keep you occupied.
Simrad and Furuno make good AP electric operated reversing pumps. It is an entire system though with hydraulic ram, rudder feedback sender, properly sized lines, AP unit, compass and pump sized to work properly together.
The best AP website I've seen and used is Furuno's. Lots of schematics and tutorials to keep you occupied.
FF
Guru
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"It has a clutch so it can be disconnected."
Disconnect the mechanical steering and mount the emergency tiller.
If the steering load is low an electric ram style autopilot will be fast to install, and have a great response time using the jog lever while docking.
About 1/10 the cost and complexity and maint of the hyd stuff.
Disconnect the mechanical steering and mount the emergency tiller.
If the steering load is low an electric ram style autopilot will be fast to install, and have a great response time using the jog lever while docking.
About 1/10 the cost and complexity and maint of the hyd stuff.
Wxx3
Dauntless Award
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Look at ComNav a Vancouver BC company that does a lot of commercial APs, as well as the one on Dauntless. With an Octopus reversing pump. I LOVE them both.
In fact, i should ask for a sponsorship.
Xsbank
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I also have a ComNav and it works great.
Did you ever sort the hydraulics? Those piston pumps are complex and apparently they are tested by measuring the flow from the bypass. I am getting a lot of heat while my engine is running and think that my pump is past its sell-by. It is a Cessna pump and I'm currently looking for a replacement.
Did you ever sort the hydraulics? Those piston pumps are complex and apparently they are tested by measuring the flow from the bypass. I am getting a lot of heat while my engine is running and think that my pump is past its sell-by. It is a Cessna pump and I'm currently looking for a replacement.
Mule
Guru
I found it anyway. Thanks
I believe my pump is a rotary. And yes I got my hydrolics sorted out. It was just a valve issue. I believe my bow thruster dose not get enough oil from the clutch pump to be very effective. But it is better than nothing, it dose help.
I just purchased a
ACCU-STEER-HPU-150-12-AUTOPILOT-STEERING-PUMP I am planing on adding a hydraulic ram, actually 2 to my rudder post and using this to and a jog toggle to do power steering. I am hoping to be around 18 months from leaving to do some cruising? but we will see.
Obie
I just purchased a
ACCU-STEER-HPU-150-12-AUTOPILOT-STEERING-PUMP I am planing on adding a hydraulic ram, actually 2 to my rudder post and using this to and a jog toggle to do power steering. I am hoping to be around 18 months from leaving to do some cruising? but we will see.
Obie
