Trawler Newbie

Hi all,
My name is David and we're in the process of finishing off a purchase of a Marine Trader 40. We have engine survey on Wed and marine survey on Thursday. Hoping all goes thru with flying colours.

We live on a little piece of beachfront in Mexico from Nov - April and given housing prices In Vancouver, we've decided to buy a trawler to liveaboard. We'll be moored at the same marina that I'll be working at driving a whale watching /Grizzly tour boat for my "summer job" from May - Oct.

I've been running mostly racing keelboats for 30 years and the last 15 years powerboating in the Pacific Northwest. This is my first trawler experience and I'll admit, I'm feeling a little intimidated by the scope of the systems and tight maneuvering with a single screw. I've owned sailboats this size but there's so much more bow up there than a pointy little sailboat bow.

I welcome any and all advice from those who have walked the path before me.

Greetings,
Welcome aboard eh?

Welcome to the forum! Sounds like a nice winter escape.

Ted

Welcome! Your boat have bow or stern thruster?

Hi Art,

Not yet..... hence my apprehension. This will be worlds different than a keelboat or my 22' Trophy. Looking forward to learning the boat.

I did ask the broker for a ballark on a bow thruster last week. He said he had another client do one recently for about 11k CDN. Definitely on my list.

welcome aboard!
Don't be intimidated, jump in it and enjoy, you will learn everyday and if you do any mistake well... you won't do it anymore! I jumped in last year, lot to learn, sometimes stressful, sometimes lot of work but always wonderful experience.

L.

Note: wow 1001 post, time to celebrate! lol

Perhaps not as intimidated as cautious. I don't want to be "that guy" first time in. I've seen many of those over the years. Lol. I'm expecting to spend a few hours with the owner on the sea trial in a few days. Then the delivery will be 100 miles up the coast. I'll mess around on the way to run through some maneuvers to get a feel for the prop wash, slip, acceleration and deceleration. I'm sure it won't take long to learn it's traits.

And damn.... there's a lot of wiring down there.

Welcome and good luck with the boat.

The biggest thing to get used to is how ineffective the rudder is compared to a sailboat. You will do fine.

An old ship's captain taught me a good lesson years ago. When docking "go as slow as possible, when you hit something, damage will be minimal"LOL. So true-learn the boat's handling and you'll be fine, but know your limitations.

Welcome aboard TF
Sounds a tough way to make a living....But heh....Somebody has to do it.
Enjoy the new and old adventures

dhays said:

Welcome and good luck with the boat.

The biggest thing to get used to is how ineffective the rudder is compared to a sailboat. You will do fine.

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True to some extent, but the rudder is very effective with some power deflecting off it, and especially so when the boat's weight is to some extent 'leaning' on it.

By which I mean the heavy weight, and momentum of the boat, tends to hold it in position, fore and aft, while you transfer sideways movement such as you might want from a thruster, by powering up briefly with the rudder hard over, before the effect results in any significant forward or backward movement.
A good example is how I get out of our berth and down the fairway between arms. I reverse out slowly until 3/4 of the way across the space towards the adjoining arm, putting the helm hard a port just as we near that point, then a quick burst of power in forward with the rudder hard over, counteracted by the rearward momentum results in the stern kicking round to starboard so much with so little forward movement, I can then usually then just steer her straight down the fairway and be away. Whereas the guys with thrusters are usually still 'buzzing' away trying to bring the bow around using just the thruster. The cunning ones soon learn to do the same with minimal thruster use.

With all your yacht experience you will know what I mean, and it will come to you quite easily. I also learnt my early boating skills in yachts, (ok, sail boats in North America), and although initially I was sure I'd need to add a thruster - I got away without it, and now would hardly ever use it.

Morale to that story is, don't be in too much of a hurry to spend $11K, as there will for sure be other stuff it might well be better spent on. Just sayin'...

Thanks very much for sharing that Pete and Bacchus. I'm sure it's not going to be as foreign as I have it in my head.

Regarding the thruster, I remember buying my first boat, a little C&C 24, back in the early 80's. I was all gung ho buying all these little go fast items prior to launch. I remember the broker looking at me one afternoon and saying, "Just go sail it first. It will tell you what it needs." In that vein, we have some extra funds held aside for the inevitable cash burn that comes with every new used boat.

Thanks again.

Dg - I'm very pleased that you are receiving so much input - Ain't TF Great!! - I think so!!!


Seems we're [primarily] a bunch of pleasure-boat luven seafarers whose big thrill is to talk about marine doings/thangs. We are all pretty damned well blessed to be able to live a portion-or-more of our lives aboard boats and be out on the water. I feel fortunate as all get out to be a boater and from reading posts believe that most TF members do too. Clearly looks that you may also become an often contributor on TF whilst we assist one another to best deal with and enjoy whatever boating has to offer.


So... here's a little tidbit I've been musing for a while regarding single screw boats. First... I want to say that I was introduced to power boating at birth [1952] and that I exited the single screw straight shaft power boat arena back in mid 1970's. Never have nor ever plan to own an I/O [for many reasons]. Did not own but crewed/played aboard sailboats of different sizes while underway many times when young. Ever since mid 70's I've either had no boat or been with twin screw straight shaft and/or single screw O/Bs. Have one of each now [Our Tolly is pictured in avatar - O/B is 50 hp. Johnson on 15' Crestliner four seater tow behing runabout; a comfortable seating quick little baby!] .

Here's my muse regarding single screw boats [and, if I owned one - which might occur - I may try this]:

Why have thrusters when for same [maybe even less cost with today's technology] a small [10 to 20 hp.] O/B could be fashioned onto/into swim step for more than one purpose of use while being remote/wirelessly controlled from any place aboard.

1. - The O/B would suffice in close dock situations because of its propeller thrust in full range of direction.
2. - It would offer a great "get-home" alternative if the main screw went quiet.
3. - For trolling the cost of fuel as well as noise would be reduced [gas or diesel].
4. - For required minus 5 mph cruising in large expanses of ICW's it would be a cost saving and sound reducing slam dunk.
5. - With correct hook up regarding boom on boat the same O/B could either be in its swim step position or it could be lifted and put into service as propulsion aboard the tender that same boom launched. Additionally... there could be a location aboard boat where the O/B could be placed by boom where it simply rested in wait for it's next propulsion deployment assignment.

There you have it! This is example of what hits my mind early morning over coffee - and - Plenty of IT!

Happy Boating Daze! - Art

Peter B said:

A good example is how I get out of our berth and down the fairway between arms. I reverse out slowly until 3/4 of the way across the space towards the adjoining arm, putting the helm hard a port just as we near that point, then a quick burst of power in forward with the rudder hard over, counteracted by the rearward momentum results in the stern kicking round to starboard so much with so little forward movement, I can then usually then just steer her straight down the fairway and be away. Whereas the guys with thrusters are usually still 'buzzing' away trying to bring the bow around using just the thruster. The cunning ones soon learn to do the same with minimal thruster use.

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Very true Peter and I do that as well. I sure wish I had a jog control however. It takes a lot of spinning of the wheel to go from full port to full starboard rudder.

Art: You are definitely thinking outside of the box.

dhays said:

Very true Peter and I do that as well. I sure wish I had a jog control however. It takes a lot of spinning of the wheel to go from full port to full starboard rudder.

Art: You are definitely thinking outside of the box.

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I try to keep "Box[es]" out of my brain. "Bubble" in!

That's interesting Art. We looked at a real nice Cheer Men Bros. 38 Sedan in the final 3 and he had affixed a mount on the swim ladder. Tho he had a bow thruster, the planned use was for when the engine had issues and he had to limp home. It was something I added to my list of should haves. I never considered it as a side thruster.

You and I seem cut from the same cloth. I was the kid that would wake the lake up way too early with the aluminum runabout. Since then I've always had boats and more often than not, multiple boats as is the case now. OMG.... I have 6 of them... all crying for some small bit of attention. Just nothing of this displacement.

And yes, I've always loved boating for the community that comes with it. For decades, we'd go out and beat the snot out of each other in a testosterone fueled state, yet post race regatta parties brought us all together as best friends sharing a single passion. Tho we all cursed "stinkpotters" in those days, I've shared many fine evenings since with strangers over a cold beer on a dock in the middle of nowhere. It's a special thing in today's world to be cherished.

Thanks all for your input and help.

Most commercial fishermen spend their whole life maneuvering a single screw boat w/o a thruster. Most are bigger boats than you're buying.

Lepke said:

Most commercial fishermen spend their whole life maneuvering a single screw boat w/o a thruster. Most are bigger boats than you're buying.

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That's very true.

However... we should all understand there is considerable difference between commercial fisherman captain and pleasure boat captain boat-use practice time... as well as commercial and/or pleasure boat physical condition comparisons in general:

1. Commercial boat captain spends many, many, many hours constantly maneuvering their craft to set traps, snag trap buoys, pull in line, retrieve nets, then dock; they get lots o' practice using their single screw. Pleasure boat captains generally do not spend near as much time maneuvering their boats... as there is no need to. Pleasure boaters anchor out and play, sometimes stay in the slip and relax, grab a mooring to stay for days at a time, or "gently/carefully" dock while on a cruise.

2. Regarding handling a single screw so the boat touches nothing while being captained... Commercial boats usually very much show their wear and tear from rubbing up against pylons as well as bouncing off other sturdy items. Pleasure boats are usually kept as near pristine as possible. For a pleasure boat to even slightly touch another pleasure boat while docking or other maneuvers is frowned upon to say the least. Also looked at askance is rubbing into a pylon or dock... God forbid that a scratch may be left on the boat much less a dent or crack in the boat's surface.

End result to what I mentioned: Most commercial boat captains in general become damn good at handling their single screw rugged-work crafts. And, so do most pleasure boat captains become good at handling their kept-pristine floating beauties. Big difference here is the allowable and inherent "fudge factor" regarding dents, chips and abrasions which are thought nothing of on hard-working commercial boats as compared to non-working pristine-looking pleasure boats that simply must never have anything but their very best beauty displayed.

Happy Boat-Use Daze! - Art

Congrats!!!! I love my Marine Trader!!!

I would recommend bow thrusters. I have them and still every now and then do some dock slamming! LOL! I have a tight passage between two boats to get in and out of my slip. Honestly? I don't think I could do it without the thruster!

Welcome aboard!

So far, so great

Hey all,

Just an update. We had the engine survey last week and the CAT tech said it's in exceptional condition and has clearly been well looked after. His only recommendation were 2 hoses he said could use replacement in the next year.

The next day, the marine surveyor gave it a good go through and at the end said, "I can't find a single reason why you shouldn't buy this boat.", stating it was rare to see a boat of this age in such clean condition.

Now today, after 9 days of suspense, the oil analysis came back from Finning all greens with no indications of any issues. We officially own a boat.

Sadly, I start a new job on Monday so will have to have the boat delivered the 100 miles to Campbell River on Tuesday, probably without me.

All in all, good to have gotten through it. Thanks for all the advice. It's appreciated. Regarding the bow thruster, the previous owner had no probs spinning it nicely walking the prop. He says the 210hp spins it a lot better than his previous trawler that had a 120hp Lehman. I'll just see how it goes before committing to the thruster.

Thanks again!

I'd get used to the boat before deciding. If you've helmed racing keelboats on crowded starting lines and enjoyed it you'll do fine. Just don't be afraid to use the power. Head out and spend a couple of days maneuvering around pilings and whatnot.

Welcome aboard and congratulations.

Dgauci said:

Hey all, Just an update. We had the engine survey last week and the CAT tech said it's in exceptional condition and has clearly been well looked after. His only recommendation were 2 hoses he said could use replacement in the next year.

The next day, the marine surveyor gave it a good go through and at the end said, "I can't find a single reason why you shouldn't buy this boat.", stating it was rare to see a boat of this age in such clean condition.
....Regarding the bow thruster, the previous owner had no probs spinning it nicely walking the prop. He says the 210hp spins it a lot better than his previous trawler that had a 120hp Lehman. I'll just see how it goes before committing to the thruster.

Thanks again!

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Great news. I suggest you take another look at my post #11, re manoeuvring without thrusters. It took me quite a while to work that trick out by myself. You can cut straight to it. You're welcome...

Art said:

Here's my muse regarding single screw boats [and, if I owned one - which might occur - I may try this]:

Why have thrusters when for same [maybe even less cost with today's technology] a small [10 to 20 hp.] O/B could be fashioned onto/into swim step for more than one purpose of use while being remote/wirelessly controlled from any place aboard.

1. - The O/B would suffice in close dock situations because of its propeller thrust in full range of direction.
2. - It would offer a great "get-home" alternative if the main screw went quiet.
3. - For trolling the cost of fuel as well as noise would be reduced [gas or diesel].
4. - For required minus 5 mph cruising in large expanses of ICW's it would be a cost saving and sound reducing slam dunk.


5. - With correct hook up regarding boom on boat the same O/B could either be in its swim step position or it could be lifted and put into service as propulsion aboard the tender that same boom launched. Additionally... there could be a location aboard boat where the O/B could be placed by boom where it simply rested in wait for it's next propulsion deployment assignment.

There you have it! This is example of what hits my mind early morning over coffee - and - Plenty of IT!

Happy Boating Daze! - Art

Click to expand...

Art, the guys around here (north shore Lake Erie) use outboards for trolling. This boat has the motor controlled from the hydraulic AP and can steer with it. Pretty close to what you're imagining.

Congratulation for your new boat! Wish to enjoy it as much as possible.

L.

Jeff F said:

Art, the guys around here (north shore Lake Erie) use outboards for trolling. This boat has the motor controlled from the hydraulic AP and can steer with it. Pretty close to what you're imagining.

View attachment 64546

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Just goes to show ya what several cups o' coffee early in the day will do for ya! :lol:

Just remember two words: " prop wash".

With your experience I don't think you'll have any trouble with boat handling. You are just steering from a different spot and height.

Odd that you have a 210 CAT as most were 120 Lehmans. Then again, MT did whatever they felt like (and whatever the new owner wanted) on each build.

Good luck!

Thanks for the encouragement. The owner paid half for a delivery captain to join me and he said it was a world of difference with the 210 HP. He took it out of a tight slip and I did the first docking and all went very well. Still, looking at the docs from the pre delivery inspection in '82, it says "CCW" in the engine details. Would this indicate that prop is CCW as well? I didn't notice much effect as I nursed it in but tomorrow will head out (assuming little wind) and really get a feel.
I spent the last week on the whale watching boat I drive and it clicked quickly on the nuance of how it maneuvered. Hoping the trawler will be as easy to figure out.

Thanks again for the words of wisdom.

David