Driving from the fly bridge or not?

The helm is in the wheelhouse where it belongs and w good mechanics others can be installed.

gaston said:

A simple oil pressure switch that shuts down the engine would be more sensible than checking the engine every 2 hours . I just don't get it I jump in my diesel 4x4 fill up the tank drive 10 hours at engine speeds that are 3 x that my Cummins cruses at then drive another 10 hours without looking under the bonnet .If my oil pressure or any other problem arises my dash lights come on am I missing something ???

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Not a fan of automatic shutdowns. A loud alarm and blinking light, absolutely! I think people get carried away with the engine room checks. To me, the obnoxious alarm is more important.

Ted

Scott

I have three cameras in bilge to check the engines and other systems. I agree that I don't like something to shut down the engines. I can envision approaching a dock with some expensive boat when power is cut. I do have a fire system which should shut everything down but that is my biggest fear on a boat explosion and fire.

A 2.5 million dollar Caterpillar D11 has auto shut down some one should email Caterpillar and tell them to just visual check the engine every hour instead

I flew single engine helos from pole to pole.

I always felt that regular system inspections, interior walkarounds inflight and good early warning sensors would bring me home.

Fortunately it all worked.

I get the car/truck comparison...but in my experience...boats have many more failures...and they often start small....a drop, a spray, a smoking wire...etc....if you find it early, the fix is easy and quick.

Find it much later and who knows....

Scott

Interesting that you bring up the car boat comparison. I have a Diesel auto that I have never even opened the hood that has approx 25000 miles. My boat has approx 800 hours and it gets checked before every trip. Why? Because the boats engines live in an environment that is not favorable for long life. Both have gauges and alarms that I do trust but I feel it more necessary to check the bilge than under the hood (and I have twin Diesels).

Bigfish,
Cars have systems that are extremely evolved and developed into a perfect functioning machine whereas millions of them are being made. Maintenance drills are extremely well developed and proven from millions of examples.

Boats are almost all one off machines and very much subject to engineering and systems not fully developed like cars.

So our maintenance is much more intensive.

Nomad Willy said:

Bigfish,
Cars have systems that are extremely evolved and developed into a perfect functioning machine whereas millions of them are being made. Maintenance drills are extremely well developed and proven from millions of examples.

Boats are almost all one off machines and very much subject to engineering and systems not fully developed like cars.

So our maintenance is much more intensive.

Click to expand...

Outboards are extremely easy to keep view on. Just sayen!

I've twin 350 Mercruisers and 7.5 kw Kohler gen set gasoline engines under salon sole... always keep close tabs on those three babies as well as all fuel sources!

Keep in mind cameras don't provide smell. Temps...maybe IR, noise...quality could be an issue. I don't think there is any substitute for a personal inspection.

Yes failures can still happen, but usually after something is overlooked by an inexperienced individual. Maybe access around a hot engine in a twin configuration, horrible engine room lighting, etc.,...all add up to inadequate inspections.

But I tend to error on the anxiety filled ADD side

Sealife said:

Keep in mind cameras don't provide smell. Temps...maybe IR, noise...quality could be an issue. I don't think there is any substitute for a personal inspection.

Yes failures can still happen, but usually after something is overlooked by an inexperienced individual. Maybe access around a hot engine in a twin configuration, horrible engine room lighting, etc.,...all add up to inadequate inspections.

But I tend to error on the anxiety filled ADD side

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In addition to four good lights for viewing while salon sole hatches are open on top of engine compartment I also have a narrow and/or wide beam rechargeable spotlight that I use for very clear visuals.

Greetings,
Hmmm...a bit of a drift on this thread but...

The Admiral does the ER checks every couple of hours or so where she "shoots" temperatures, notes filter vacuums, does a general visual and smell check and looks at the stuffing boxes etc. Before going below she records gauge readings and engine hours to which she attaches ER readings and notes.

After a service (belt/filter change or similar) the ER visits are initially more frequent just to make sure the "Captain" didn't, ahem...forget something. Any discrepancies are a reason for the "Captain" to do an ER look-see.

We've got a pretty good system worked out and it has prevented a few potential problems.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Hmmm...a bit of a drift on this thread but...

The Admiral does the ER checks every couple of hours or so where she "shoots" temperatures, notes filter vacuums, does a general visual and smell check and looks at the stuffing boxes etc. Before going below she records gauge readings and engine hours to which she attaches ER readings and notes.

After a service (belt/filter change or similar) the ER visits are initially more frequent just to make sure the "Captain" didn't, ahem...forget something. Any discrepancies are a reason for the "Captain" to do an ER look-see.

We've got a pretty good system worked out and it has prevented a few potential problems.

Click to expand...

Good way to do things RT. We do ER checks about every 90 minutes. Good ER access helps a bunch in this regard. For those of us that are way out in the hinter lands with no nearby help or Sea Tow, knowing what it going on stem to stern and top to bottom on a regular basis is essential it would seem.

As everyone agrees it all depends on where your cruising and the type of boat.
For open sea work and the calmest of days, poor visibility and entering/leaving harbours the FB is great.
For long passages and rougher seas we pilot from inside, the visibility isn't as good of course but we can have a nap, a meal or tea/coffee.
We each take tricks at the wheel, as each pilot 'hands over' he/she give a current update of other ships/hazards, course etc , apart from the rest aspect for safety reasons it involves your partner/crew in an active part in the ships navigation, handling etc. whether they are keen navigators or not they will unconsciously learn by familiarity.
For rougher seas the lower helm has reduced rolling/pitching because of less weight on the F/B and reduced centre of gravity, the personal feeling of security in more comfortable surroundings is also a psychological boost.
I found it works great for us but each crew have their own way of doing things the way that they're comfortable with.

For engine room checks, I totally disagree it matters where you are.

I don't want to repair or replace an engine because I missed something small that ultimately turned into something big.

I neither paranoid or trust or distrust.

I just have enough experience to know the difference between cars, boats, helos, heavy equipment, etc and what I think I can catch early by camera and visits.

Will I get them all? Nope but I already have gotten so many, saving me so much time and money that I am now set in my way of routine checks.

And it doesn't matter if headed for the travel lift, or Alaska.

We were lucky enough to have a walk in engine room. My wife every hour, would check. We also put white bathroom rugs, over the sole. And of course the temp gun, which she would hit all the usual places, including the stuffing boxes. I trained her early on, about the different smells and colors to look for. Brown, pink, green.

Hotrod said:

We were lucky enough to have a walk in engine room. My wife every hour, would check. We also put white bathroom rugs, over the sole. And of course the temp gun, which she would hit all the usual places, including the stuffing boxes. I trained her early on, about the different smells and colors to look for. Brown, pink, green.

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Bigsfish said:

Scott

Interesting that you bring up the car boat comparison. I have a Diesel auto that I have never even opened the hood that has approx 25000 miles. My boat has approx 800 hours and it gets checked before every trip. Why? Because the boats engines live in an environment that is not favorable for long life. Both have gauges and alarms that I do trust but I feel it more necessary to check the bilge than under the hood (and I have twin Diesels).

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...and because I have AAA+ towing and can walk home (or wherever) if my car breaks

We have upper and lower helms and 90% of the time use the upper. I love the fresh air, visibility and docking is much easier. We have a full enclosure but often leave some windows rolled up. We also have screens which keeps the bugs out, and we have lots of bugs at some times of the year in Canada. The biggest disadvantage we have is having a ladder instead of stairs, a PITA as you get older. If I had stairs I may be able to have a flybridge helm only boat but with a ladder I wouldn't even consider it. I always run from the lower helm when locking through as it is much safer, more convenient and accessible.

Fact in point of why to often check on engine before, during and after operations.

2008, a couple months after purchasing our Tollycraft [having already done plenty shakedown cruising/usage to make sure everything was working/operating correctly]:

This was about the 10th time we went for a day cruise in a boat relatively new to us. Had a couple of friends aboard.

Where we were going to anchor for lunch was about two hours away from dock at a gentle 6.5 knots. Came time to leave dock and I [as usual] opened the hatches to check engines etc before and during starting them up. Everything looked fine, hatches got closed. I did not again check the engines during the mellow two hour cruise to anchor spot; guess I should have. However, the problem found may not have happened till the latter portion of cruise. I usually feel checking engines every couple hours is an OK way to operate.


Anchored and spent several hours enjoying the day and munching on great food our wives fixed.

Anyway, When opening hatches for checking before our return cruise I was taken back by the inches deep water in center of bilge; not deep enough to trip the auto switch on applicable bilge pump. I make sure there is seldom if ever a drop of water in bilge.

So... I immediately activated all three bilge pumps and water was quickly drained. Then I started the starboard engine [could see by water droplets on different surfaces that engine was the culprit]. Incoming raw water cooling pump had let loose [its gasket I guessed] and was spraying sea water all over the place on outside edge.

Quickly shutting that engine down I started the port engine and found its operation was A-OK. We came in on port power alone.

Raw water dump was replaced with new days later... turned out the plate where gasket failed had itself cracked due to a bit of corrosion and simply time moving on.

Importantly... this is one of the umpteen reasons why it is good/necessary to very often keep checking on marine power plants to interrupt what could become BIG emergency situations.

With camera technology becoming so advanced I have decided to this year look into camera I can place in engine compartment so I can check things at will while piloting from fly bridge. Main item I seek is having a screen with bright enough picture so that in sunny times [95% of our time on bridge] it is easy to see. I figure a top shade over the screen will help for visual clarity.

Suggestions/recommendations would be greatly appreciated for engine compartment camera brands/models that provide clear, bright images on screen!!??

Happy Boating-Safety Daze! - Art

Art...bigger decision is Wifi or hard wired.

I bought a cheap $13 camera, 720, IR, with a narrow view versus wide.

I turned it into an underwater camera by sticking it in some PVC pipe. Worked great in the Keys, too murky elsewhere so on the trip home put it looking at the front of my engine.

With my Lehman setup, if I get even a tiny drip leak from anything...it comes to the front of the drip pan and I can see it, if the belt gets loose I can see it, if there is smoke or mist....maybe...so many worries that can start small I might see right away. I do have pretty bright led strip lights in the ER, but the picture is black and white so the IR lights may be in play too (when I open the hatch, it does turn to color.

So whatever camera you feel you can hookup is probably OK, just make sure the field of view will work for where you are mounting it. Going to 1080 resolution may only help if I had a bigger screen.

For screen I had 3 options. My TV, my raymarine mfd or the cheapo backup camera monitor I got from ebay.

psneeld said:

Art...bigger decision is Wifi or hard wired.

I bought a cheap $13 camera, 720, IR, with a narrow view versus wide.

I turned it into an underwater camera by sticking it in some PVC pipe. Worked great in the Keys, too murky elsewhere so on the trip home put it looking at the front of my engine.

With my Lehman setup, if I get even a tiny drip leak from anything...it comes to the front of the drip pan and I can see it, if the belt gets loose I can see it, if there is smoke or mist....maybe...so many worries that can start small I might see right away. I do have pretty bright led strip lights in the ER, but the picture is black and white so the IR lights may be in play too (when I open the hatch, it does turn to color.

So whatever camera you feel you can hookup is probably OK, just make sure the field of view will work for where you are mounting it. Going to 1080 resolution may only help if I had a bigger screen.

For screen I had 3 options. My TV, my raymarine mfd or the cheapo backup camera monitor I got from ebay.

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Thanks! ps

During the years we've owned our vessel there have been some interesting issues that were only found with routine ER checks with engines running at higher cruise RPM. No pre check or after check would have found them.

- A leaking O ring on the after cooler. Fresh water too which was puzzling, turned out to be condensate but dripping onto wiring loom connections.

- Hot spot on water lift muffler that indicated debris in mixing elbow.

- Drip from coolant pump that evaporated before it fell to bilge indicating an incipient pump failure.

- Similar beginning drips from raw water pumps.

- Shaft seal misting indicating required adjustment.

- Bad O ring on a fuel return line check valve

- Stabilizer hydraulic hoses needing improved tie downs.

Any of the above would have resulted in an unplanned shutdown whereas all were fixed at my convenience while vessel docked. I spent a lifetime working in very large industrial complexes where the hundreds if not thousands of failure points could only be seen by visual walk around inspections. It is an ingrained way of life for many of us.

When I am no longer able to take the extra 15 seconds that is required to get to the ER from the FB versus the lower helm, I will sell the boat to a younger more nimble skipper.

Scott st al

We have five cameras, one for backing into a slip and others in the engine room facing what could be problem areas . I can display all on the Garmin screen one at a time to check problems. They are all hard wired.

It's nice to see the engines without having to get in a hot noisy bilge!

This boat would be a nice PNW boat... raised pilothouse with no FB, or a complete covered FB, depending on how you look at it. Of course, I am not sure I would want to be that high up on a long run with a quartering sea...

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Engine room checks. I started boating in the dark ages when cameras had names like Brownie. Installed a port light in the engine room bulkhead so that I could see that there were not flames before I opened a door. I am not paranoid. Murphy is out to get me if I let down my guard.

In 18 years of cruising with Bay Pelican I have spotted while underway, a major oil leak, (lost six quarts before I caught it) a disconnected fresh water hose which drained 200 gallons of fresh water into the bilge, and a disconnected compressor for my stabilizers.

I had recently lost my primary bilge pump while underway which resulted in me checking the ER every 30 mins or so during a crossing.. developed a pin leak in a fuel line about 3 hours in.. kinda made me think about making that a habit. cameras would be good, but not sure worth the trouble given the number of angles and lighting you need vs. 10 seconds with a flashlight. or both I suppose, its a boat after all.

(yes, my boat is old.. stuff breaks all the time

I doubt that my cameras would catch many of the problems listed here. With the lights off, I only see a grainy picture illuminated by the camera's IR lights. I would probably catch smoke and a major leak. Nothing else would probably be identifiable.

Gordon J said:

I doubt that my cameras would catch many of the problems listed here. With the lights off, I only see a grainy picture illuminated by the camera's IR lights. I would probably catch smoke and a major leak. Nothing else would probably be identifiable.

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Guess from what I'm learning is that as well as camera in engine compartment that bright lights are also needed for clear film from cameras??

So, it seems that along with engine compartment camera installation there should also be flood lights installed that can be switched on/off when wanting to see clear depiction on view screen.

More light is possibly the answer as well as camera and screen resolution.

My $13 camera sees enough... an oil weep on the side of the engine isn't noticeable, but a drop of oil or fuel into the white gel coat drip pan or onto an oil pad would be.

psneeld said:

More light is possibly the answer as well as camera and screen resolution.

My $13 camera sees enough... an oil weep on the side of the engine isn't noticeable, but a drop of oil or fuel into the white gel coat drip pan or onto an oil pad would be.

Click to expand...

Planning to research flood light availability and cameras. Hard wire seems the way to go. Should be able to accomplish pretty good system for couple to a few hundred bucks.

Think I'll leave the view screen on salon pilot dashboard only... at least at first. Simple to come off FB for hourly check. That said, to be able to have ten or fifteen minutes check-ups it would be best to have a view screen in each location.