Stone flooring installation
- Thread starter Mako
- Start date
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
North Baltic sea
Guru
what material you have on the floor and walls, surfaces below? estimated thickness.
The principle used in the cement where fiber. In addition to the additive of doing this flexibility.
Ardex S 48 This product element of the structure and allows for slight changes in the shape of the background.
And water resistans products ARDEX 8+9 is perfect for that ardex s 48
ask the seller or importer considers US web site. my english too bad advice to give you exactly how.
http://www.ardexamericas.com/en-us/Pages/Home.aspx
but as I started it would be good to know the status of the background material and the strength of approx.
Cheers
NBs
The principle used in the cement where fiber. In addition to the additive of doing this flexibility.
Ardex S 48 This product element of the structure and allows for slight changes in the shape of the background.
And water resistans products ARDEX 8+9 is perfect for that ardex s 48
ask the seller or importer considers US web site. my english too bad advice to give you exactly how.
http://www.ardexamericas.com/en-us/Pages/Home.aspx
but as I started it would be good to know the status of the background material and the strength of approx.
Cheers
NBs
I laid stone over 2x6's on steps to my house. We walked on it for ten years and it flexed for ten years. I used 1/2" concrete board. The only problem I had was the grout would crack up. I lost about 4 stones over the years and they were on the edge where people roll their feet to travers the steps. I just did a shower in my boat, I used wall mastic and non sanded polymer grout. That has the best flexing capability that I have found. Good luck
what_barnacles
Guru
look up epoxy tile adhesive, grout. Waterproof, flexible, sticks to just about everything...
You might want to consider Luxury Vinyl Tile - it's nothing like vinyl tile of old!
We've used it in 3 rooms at home and really like the stuff...has a realistic stone / tile look, warmer under foot than tile, can be installed w or w/o acrylic grout, available in a wide range of looks.
We've used it in 3 rooms at home and really like the stuff...has a realistic stone / tile look, warmer under foot than tile, can be installed w or w/o acrylic grout, available in a wide range of looks.
DHeckrotte
Guru
Plenty of stone floors installed on wood structures. Amazingly, the classic way was to chop the top edges of floor joists to a peak, recess the subfloor on cleats nailed to the sides of the joists, fill with mortar, and lay the stone in mortar. Works fine, grout and all. Used in residences, churches and all.
These days, folks just glue the stone down to plywood subfloors and get away with it. Read the TCA Handbook for instructions for the various methods. I've done 20cm square ceramic tile on an old house floor. The joists were under-sized and overly widely spaced for the span, so I used doubled, glued, 3/4" plywood and Furan Cement and epoxy grout. (Furan is/was a brand of epoxy mastic.) Worked fine for the 25 years I had the house.
The biggest problem is how much bending the floor will do. This will be described as a ratio of sag to length and is what engineers and architects design a floor structure to meet. A boat structure will likely be a bit more flexible but surely you can stiffen the area to receive the stone. I remember, for example, that floors/ceilings receiving drywall could sag 1/240 and those to receive real plaster were limited to 1/360.
Ahh, I see that the TCA Handbook is now the TCNA Handbook: https://www.tcnatile.com/products-a...eramic-glass-and-stone-tile-installation.html
These days, folks just glue the stone down to plywood subfloors and get away with it. Read the TCA Handbook for instructions for the various methods. I've done 20cm square ceramic tile on an old house floor. The joists were under-sized and overly widely spaced for the span, so I used doubled, glued, 3/4" plywood and Furan Cement and epoxy grout. (Furan is/was a brand of epoxy mastic.) Worked fine for the 25 years I had the house.
The biggest problem is how much bending the floor will do. This will be described as a ratio of sag to length and is what engineers and architects design a floor structure to meet. A boat structure will likely be a bit more flexible but surely you can stiffen the area to receive the stone. I remember, for example, that floors/ceilings receiving drywall could sag 1/240 and those to receive real plaster were limited to 1/360.
Ahh, I see that the TCA Handbook is now the TCNA Handbook: https://www.tcnatile.com/products-a...eramic-glass-and-stone-tile-installation.html
If you are set on stone / tile I would consider a tile membrane / underlayment specifically designed for applications w/ some "flex"
Schluter Tile Membrane - note there are other similar ones
Schluter Tile Membrane - note there are other similar ones
Yes the membrane seems like the right direction. I don't want to fight the flex with backer board or a mud base because the vibrations will still go through. A flexible underpayment and flexible mastic of some sorts seems like the way to go
Lou_tribal
Guru
Datenight
Guru
Do like he said and use this membrane
Membrane is a good idea. Plywood base better in my opinion in this case. How big an area do you want to tile? Mastic is not a good choice for stone.
Contact me if you have more questions.
Rob
DHeckrotte
Guru
Re: undertile membranes: There are several types.
One is the type indicated above and is intended to allow the floor and the tile to move horizontally separately. The idea is that cracks in the floor do not cause cracks in the tile.
Another is to provide a waterproof layer under the tile and is used for exterior decks; and it provides the horizontal movement that the first does.
A third is to provide a waterproof layer to retain and direct the water under your shower or tiled tub toward the drain. This used to be done with lead sheet but PVC sheet is used these days. A pan is formed with the PVC and the PVC is glued and/or clamped to a two-stage floor drain. A sloping tile bed is added in top of the PVC using concrete w/o aggregate other than sand. Then the mastic of your choice is used to bond the tile or stone.
Tile cements suitable for ordinary folk have come a long way since the '50s when water emulsion organic mastics were normal practice. These mastics earned a well-deserved disdain: they mildew, they become brittle and the tiles fall off, and they didn't hold worth a hoot anyway. Nowadays cementitious thinset cements are easy to use and excellent. Some are advertised as latex-modified; some you supply the water; some are premixed; lots of choices w/o using the epoxy types. Similar choices for grouts, including texture and color.
I've used some of each of these; I prefer the mix it yourself types. Certainly, I do not prefer the premixed latex-modified grout; what a mess! It leaves a plasticy smear as it dries on rough tile that you really have to work to get off.
I can share pics of installing Granite on shower and bathroom floor, including the PVC and sloping bed. Ditto installing bas relief tiles on a door-sized wall-hung objet d'art.
One is the type indicated above and is intended to allow the floor and the tile to move horizontally separately. The idea is that cracks in the floor do not cause cracks in the tile.
Another is to provide a waterproof layer under the tile and is used for exterior decks; and it provides the horizontal movement that the first does.
A third is to provide a waterproof layer to retain and direct the water under your shower or tiled tub toward the drain. This used to be done with lead sheet but PVC sheet is used these days. A pan is formed with the PVC and the PVC is glued and/or clamped to a two-stage floor drain. A sloping tile bed is added in top of the PVC using concrete w/o aggregate other than sand. Then the mastic of your choice is used to bond the tile or stone.
Tile cements suitable for ordinary folk have come a long way since the '50s when water emulsion organic mastics were normal practice. These mastics earned a well-deserved disdain: they mildew, they become brittle and the tiles fall off, and they didn't hold worth a hoot anyway. Nowadays cementitious thinset cements are easy to use and excellent. Some are advertised as latex-modified; some you supply the water; some are premixed; lots of choices w/o using the epoxy types. Similar choices for grouts, including texture and color.
I've used some of each of these; I prefer the mix it yourself types. Certainly, I do not prefer the premixed latex-modified grout; what a mess! It leaves a plasticy smear as it dries on rough tile that you really have to work to get off.
I can share pics of installing Granite on shower and bathroom floor, including the PVC and sloping bed. Ditto installing bas relief tiles on a door-sized wall-hung objet d'art.
Here's some interesting information on lightweight stone panels.
Marine Panels | Stone Panels USA
You didn't mention what type stone. Marble is rather commonly used and holds up well. Granite is ok and resists scratching better, but if scratched is very difficult to repair.
You can get large slabs of marble but thin and light weight. Some use honeycomb subflooring and some use an aluminum backing too.
Marine Panels | Stone Panels USA
You didn't mention what type stone. Marble is rather commonly used and holds up well. Granite is ok and resists scratching better, but if scratched is very difficult to repair.
You can get large slabs of marble but thin and light weight. Some use honeycomb subflooring and some use an aluminum backing too.
We think of stone as heavy, brittle and hard but it doesn't have to be. Larger boats use marble a lot.
I appreciate the feedback. I was thinking about flooring in the bathroom and also on the walls of the shower. Tile/porcelain is probably a better solution overall, but I thought it would be worth investigating. Weight is not an issue and we could floor the entire boat with stone if we wished. However, as mentioned above, boats flex in all directions, not just horizontally, so even a slip sheet (membrane) isn't sufficient. Perhaps smaller pieces of stone held with a flexible mortar/adhesive would be better to absorb vibrations and flex. Then the grout would need to have some flexible characteristics as well.
