Banned antifouling paint in the US

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koliver said:
Bay Pelican:

This is so much drivel. First, in order to register a boat in Canada, you have to prove that the Canadian taxes have been paid. Before you get to the sales taxes, the Duty, if any has to be paid. When it comes time to sell, the new purchaser, has the same responsibilities, so if he/she is taking the boat out of Canada, then no new Canadian taxes apply, but those of the new home will have to be paid.

Second, no, this should be first!: you assume that Canadians are scofflaws. I beg to differ.

Third, you have it backwards. If I bring a non-US flagged boat to the US and sell it there, I, or the purchaser, has to go through the importation process, to make it into a US flagged vessel, paying all of the applicable duty and taxes. Never get the idea that the tax man will let you bring it in without doing so.
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Actually Bay Pelican is correct.
I personally know of a situation where that is happening, and he learned it from other CDN cruisers in the Caribbean.
Next year he will sell the boat either in the Caribbean or the US, and walk away paying no tax and having no tax owed in Canada because the boat never entered the country. He owed no tax at time of purchase because it was purchased in Florida and he removed it from the state before the 60 or 90 grace period expired.
 
mbevins said:
Actually Bay Pelican is correct.
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Yes he is correct.
As a Transport Canada Appointed Tonnage Surveyor I'm involved in 4-6 registrations per month. I frequently do tonnage measurements outside of Canada for Canadian buyers (did one yesterday in the Bahamas).
No Canadian taxes or duties are due on a Canadian Registered vessel until the vessel enters Canada and duty is only payable on non-NAFTA vessels.
many Canadian vessels are purchased and then subsequently sold without ever entering Canada therefore, no taxes or duties are ever paid.
 
EPA and others that make the rules don't appear to ever come out of their office. What is the effect of an inferior bottom paint? More fuel being used. More frequent haul outs. More bottom paint overall being used. More of a still toxic paint leaching into the environment. In wood boats there is no effective wood preserver like the old ones. So more replacement wood is used, more trees cut and so on. How long does a exposed house wood deck last? 20 years? My parents had one 80 years old.
How much more of the crappy diesel do we burn compared to older versions. And so on.
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction said:
It must have been in an earlier bill I saw that stated by 2020 no boat could be sold, new or used with copper paint.
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This can be confusing and by that I mean one state trying to force its regulations/laws onto an other state. No lawyer here so my interpretation of the Commerce Clause ( that states are divested of all power to regulate interstate commerce) may be decided by first determining what the meaning of is is. .

If my reading is correct, Washington State or any state for that matter has zero power to force other states to comply with its laws and regulations.
 
Aft Deck Capt said:
ASD, why don't we just follow King County's lead and declare our boats "Sanctuary Vessels"....and pick and choose which laws to obey!:thumb:
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Love It!!! Imagine the banner on the water right out in front of the waterfront!! I bet the cops would come out and make you move...:dance:
 
foggysail said:
This can be confusing and by that I mean one state trying to force its regulations/laws onto an other state. .............. .
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The Federal Government let California get away with this years ago so there's no going back.

By this, I mean legislating stricter regulations on products to the point where prices were raised for everyone or manufacturers were forced to manufacture modified products for sale in CA.

So, it's already being done and the Feds gave up control over it.

The thing that many people miss on the Washington State regulation on copper based bottom paints is, it only applies to us recreational boaters. Commercial operators and the military can still use copper paint so what pollution is being avoided?
 
For us this is pretty simple: Linda and I have the perfect plan! Just DON"T sell our boat! We plan to keep our Tolly till the cattle come home - so to say! :dance:
 
WesK said:
The Federal Government let California get away with this years ago so there's no going back.

By this, I mean legislating stricter regulations on products to the point where prices were raised for everyone or manufacturers were forced to manufacture modified products for sale in CA.

So, it's already being done and the Feds gave up control over it.

The thing that many people miss on the Washington State regulation on copper based bottom paints is, it only applies to us recreational boaters. Commercial operators and the military can still use copper paint so what pollution is being avoided?
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I think that is a selective misinterpreting to fulfill a particular world view. Not that I agree with CA's actions - I actually have no use for the place - but CA has set regs for product within CA. They haven't required anything of anyone else. If manufacturers feel it is best for them to build product for other markets to the same CA standards, that's their business. Nobody made them do it.

As for the WA regs applying only to recreational boats, I agree that's bad policy, and an enterprising attorney could probably get it overturned. It's arbitrarily applying a law to a particular group of people. It's no different from passing a law that applies only to people who live on streets that begin with the letter "A". I think they would have to show that recreational boats are the top contributor to copper pollution, or some other factual reason for singling them out. It's hard for me to believe they are the worst contributors, but maybe I'm wrong. I think it's probably just an easy group to pick on because there are no lobbying groups to oppose.
 
My experience is that a lot of products are NOT for sale in Ca.....you have to buy a different model.

I think most manufactures have figured out how to meet the demands.

Maybe a boating attorney will push the issue like the one that started the battle against unfair anchoring laws in Fl.
 
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Well I am on the hard and I will be touching up my bottom paint. I am going to find the HIGHEST cooper base paint I can find!!!!! Environmental Waco Terrorist!!!
 
Some people have too much time on there hands.
 
Bay Pelican said:
A friend here in the Eastern Caribbean is returning his boat to the US for sale. He has been told that if he enters US waters with a banned antifouling paint (Seahawk 44 I think) that he will have to remove it.

I understand that the banned antifouling paints cannot be sold (or applied?) in the US, but I have never heard that the paint must be removed from the bottom of a boat that has come into the US from outside of the US.

Does anyone have information on the issue as to whether this paint must be removed?

In this specific case the boat is not a US flagged vessel.
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Tributyl tin paints are illegal for use or sale in the U.S. You cannot bring a boat painted with it into territorial waters.
 
C'mon can you really see CPB or the local cops taking paint scrapings to a lab to determine tin content ?
 
fstbttms said:
If I knew of a boat using it, I wouldn't hesitate to dime the owner to the Coast Guard.
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and I'm sure your chronically underfunded CG would jump right on it with a swat team to take paint scrapings and send them to a lab while leaving a guard team to ensure the vessel didn't leave until the lab results were in ..... ain't gonna happen !

If it did happen, my claim would be that my bottom paint was contaminated by the tin from the exempt US warship upstream that is exempt from the tin ban.
 
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boatpoker said:
C'mon can you really see CPB or the local cops taking paint scrapings to a lab to determine tin content ?
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That's what they will have to do if they outlaw copper based paint. Of course we will be paying for it somehow.
 
Thanks fstbttms, for making the first factual comment here :)

Here's some info on Tributyltin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tributyltin

The advice the boat owner received may well be correct. Tributyltin has been banned in the US since the 80's because it basically kills everything in the eco system, and has been subsequently banned by most civilized countries, as well as the IMO for ocean going ships. But it's still used in some places, for example, none other than the Caribbean.

Could you smuggle it in without getting caught? Probably.

Should you bring the boat here? No, please don't. Leave that crap where you find it.
 
boatpoker said:
and I'm sure your chronically underfunded CG would jump right on it with a swat team to take paint scrapings and send them to a lab while leaving a guard team to ensure the vessel didn't leave until the lab results were in ..... ain't gonna happen !

If it did happen, my claim would be that my bottom paint was contaminated by the tin from the exempt US warship upstream that is exempt from the tin ban.
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Just to be clear, this is not paint that contains tin. It's paint that contains tributyltin which is a chemical compound.
 
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fstbttms said:
Tributyl tin paints are illegal for use or sale in the U.S. You cannot bring a boat painted with it into territorial waters.
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Exactly...the Cu ban sounds like tin ban of the 1980's.
Our first Boat had tin paint and the owner included what he had left...was sufficient to do several touch ups before switching to Cu...no paint police involved just couldn't but any more.
 
And sure enough, Seahawk 44 is 10-25% Tributyltin, and advertised as the only TBT (Tributyltin) based paint available on the market.
 
Greetings,
Mr. OC. Just out of curiosity, how would you know if a paint contained tin? Does it appear different or wear in a particular fashion?
 
boatpoker said:
...my claim would be that my bottom paint was contaminated by the tin from the exempt US warship upstream that is exempt from the tin ban.
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Except that one boats paint can't "contaminate" another's. Oh yeah, and the U.S. Navy doesn't use tbt paints. But why let a little thing like facts get in the way of a good, unhinged anti-American rant? :rolleyes:
 
REGULATIONS............REGULATIONS........REGULATIONS!!!!!!

Yeah.............What this country is in desperate need of are more REGULATIONS!!! Are the Do-Gooders still trying to ban cow farts????

And Congress' 1988 ban on TBT paint did not apply to aluminum hulls nor aluminum outboard engines nor boats lengths greater than 25 meters. Of course who knows what out of control regulations states inact.
 
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