Insurance on a 40yo trawler?

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Panhandler

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
202
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Sea Triscuit
Vessel Make
Transtar 50'
We've got a contract on a 1976 50' fiberglass semi displacement trawler with a single Cat 3208NA. I've had a survey done and a mechanic look at it and it's in fine shape. It even has an almost new fire suppression system. BoatUS will insure it but they want 1/6 of the purchase price annually for comprehensive, or 1/20 of the purchase price for liability only. While we do live on the Gulf Coast, this still seems absurdly high. I've talked to Charter Lakes - they can't do it because of the age of the boat. I just submitted a request for a quote to Anchor Marine Insurance per the recommendations for Peter on here. Who else should I request quotes from? What companies will touch older boats?

I'm fine with self insuring and just getting liability but would prefer not to if there is a reasonable alternative.

Thanks!
 
Insurance

Try Blue water in Florida. They have been my insurers for the last 4+ yrs at a rate of 2.3%

Coverage Caribbean to Maine and the East Coast, a couple of exclusions Cuba etc.

Coverage Lloyds of London
 
Thanks, Martin. I'll give them a call.
 
I also live on the Gulf Coast and after searching insurance by myself, I also went to a broker here in Clear Lake.....(Kevin Severance). He found my best option to also be Lloyds. I've found that BoatUs is probably the most expensive out there. So, guess I'm saying to find a good insurance broker, let him search. (My boat is 31 years old).
 
Contact a boat insurance broker. You need a currently in and out of water survey, and you may have to do some of the recommemded repairs maintenance. Ever time the eagle is pulled I have the hull surveyed and send to the insurance company. Boat insurance is not cheap.
 
wyoboater said:
I also live on the Gulf Coast and after searching insurance by myself, I also went to a broker here in Clear Lake.....(Kevin Severance). He found my best option to also be Lloyds. I've found that BoatUs is probably the most expensive out there. So, guess I'm saying to find a good insurance broker, let him search. (My boat is 31 years old).
Click to expand...

When all else fails, turn to Lloyds. I've found that so often to be the case in business over the years.

Now a good marine broker may well find someone else offering a good deal, but Lloyds is a fall back. They are the largest surplus lines insurer in the US.
 
Make sure also that it is an "agreed value" policy! Have you had a similar boat before? Boat US was ridiculously high when we stepped up to our 45'. Good luck! A broker that knows what the product is and the right company will help!
 
Travelers Insurance

On the west coast , Travelers Insurance , insures my 40 year old Hatteras.
 
Panhandler please keep us posted, I contacted all that was mentioned above and was told to stay with BoatUS.
 
My 1970 Bristol 42 is insured with Ace Recreational Marine Insurance. One million liability, $60,000 hull insurance. $1425.00 annually. I am about to have the boat surveyed to bring the value up to reflect the time and money spent on a massive restoration project. I may look at Hagerty if I can't get the value I'm after.
 
At 1/6th comprehensive, you'd be better off self-insuring. If you had a vessel worth $100,000. Comprehensive = $16,666/Liability = $5,000. Buy the liability and put roughly $11,000/ yr aside in a personal 'escrow' of sorts. After 6 years, you'll have $66,000 which is about what they insurance would pay out anyway.

If you continue in 10 years you'd have far more than the insurance company would ever be willing to pay out. Otherwise, in 6 years, you've essentially bought your own boat again and have nothing to show for it but 6 years of a little piece of mind.

Note the math is relative since you didn't state the purchase/value of the vessel. Since I'm lazy, the math based on a nice round number like 100k was simply easier.
 
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We ended up going with Doug at Anchor Insurance Brokerage and I have been very pleased. Incredible service and good price.
 
i put multiple boats into the quoting mechanism at BoatUS for a roughly 30ish year old trawler at a value of $30,000 with 500K in liability. I consistently got back a quote for between $800-$900. Granted, i'm in Chicago - is living on the Gulf Coast that much more?
 
Insurance on 40' Trawler

I just secured insurance from Boat US/Geico for a 40' 1988 Albin for $1,300 a year for Florida. The coverage was essentially the same offered by three other insurance companies, but the premium was considerably less (Quotes from $1,700 to $2,100).

Encore will be kept docked in our back yard in Florida, so hurricane protection was important, and included.
 
VJameslanza said:
I just secured insurance from Boat US/Geico for a 40' 1988 Albin for $1,300 a year for Florida. The coverage was essentially the same offered by three other insurance companies, but the premium was considerably less (Quotes from $1,700 to $2,100).

Encore will be kept docked in our back yard in Florida, so hurricane protection was important, and included.
Click to expand...

Sounds competitive....mine is only 400 more but is liveaboard which jumped 400 when I declared liveaboard.
 
With a premium of 1/6th the boat value, self insuring would be a must. Heck, if hull premium is over 2% of the hull value, I'd argue to self insure..... in the long run you'll come out ahead, unless you're a high risk boater. (same for other toys, cars, etc).

Overall, most people way over insure themselves, and make the insurance companies rich. No harm, if that's what you want to do. The "average" person pays out more premiums than they get back in benefits, so if you can operate above average, you'll do well self insuring. Also, there's an argument to spend the premium money on things that reduce your risk.... training, safety items, protection for your vessel, etc.

The argument for insuring is if you had a total loss, the financial burden would be too overwhelming to stand. So, an argument for that, is just don't spend that much of your dollars on a toy that makes that much difference.

Now, FWIW, here's another agency that has some very good rates:
Marks Insurance Group & Marks Marine Insurance
P: 856-202-8069
F: 856-202-8070
Marks Insurance Group – Insuring the Easy Coast Since 1990
At InsureTheBoat.com Experience is the Difference
 
My boat is 29 years old. I have used Travelers and currently use Markel here on the West Coast. Both had premiums at less than 1% of hull value. I don't know what their rates would be on the Gulf Coast.

Richar
 
Be careful using a percentage, a relatively inexpensive boat if you have full coverage for everything else could easily exceed 2 percent...

A $1500 policy on a $50,000 is not out of the question. And self insuring against pollution and liability would be a huge risk.

Especially to those that have the more modestly priced boats because of our means.

Extrapolate up till the numbers become silly, but downward they become complex for some of us.
 
Self insuring is fine for taking on the risk of losing your boat. But what about the damage you cause to someone else's boat, like the rafted boats that broke loose and smashed AlaskeSeaduction's boat? And what about the mess you make when you sink your boat on some rocks and dump fuel all over the place like the tug n BC. Or what about the salvage and cleanup costs when you drag anchor and wash up in someone's front yard. We had this last example nearly happen his past fall. A guy has (had) a **** box of an old wood fishing trawler anchored in front of my house for the past year, in violation of the local anchoring and mooring laws. Big surprise, in a fall gale he dragged and grounded just down the shore. Fortunately the wind blew him that way or he would have been in my front yard. The guy had no insurance and no money, so we (the tax payers in town) got to pay the bill to drag this fu:$&k brains boat up on the beach and load it into dumpsters one excavator bucket at a time.

Bottom like, insurance is usually the only way to keep people from foisting their irresponsibility off on the rest of us. I have no interest in cleaning up any mess you leave behind. That's your job. But most uninsured peopl just walk away from it. A lot of places (as in the whole country) require liability insurance for boaters, and I'm in favor of that. Feel free to take on the risk of losing your boat, but don't stick me with your mess when you trash the place, or other people's property.
 
I don't think any posts suggested self insuring for public liability or damage, but self insuring for hull coverage is definitely worth considering.

The OP suggested (recalculating his numbers) that hull coverage alone was quoted at 11% of the boat value. At that rate, I would definitely self cover, unless I thought there was a better chance of the boat sinking within the next ten years than staying afloat.

Sure, there is a chance you may lose the value of the boat, but if you buy the hull insurance, the chance of losing the value of the boat over the next 9 years is guaranteed.

I do have comprehensive insurance, but it is a rate that makes sense. (1% of boat value, which includes $10 million liability)
 
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twistedtree said:
Self insuring is fine for taking on the risk of losing your boat. But what about the damage you cause to someone else's boat, like the rafted boats that broke loose and smashed AlaskeSeaduction's boat? And what about the mess you make when you sink your boat on some rocks and dump fuel all over the place like the tug n BC. Or what about the salvage and cleanup costs when you drag anchor and wash up in someone's front yard. We had this last example nearly happen his past fall. A guy has (had) a **** box of an old wood fishing trawler anchored in front of my house for the past year, in violation of the local anchoring and mooring laws. Big surprise, in a fall gale he dragged and grounded just down the shore. Fortunately the wind blew him that way or he would have been in my front yard. The guy had no insurance and no money, so we (the tax payers in town) got to pay the bill to drag this fu:$&k brains boat up on the beach and load it into dumpsters one excavator bucket at a time.

Bottom like, insurance is usually the only way to keep people from foisting their irresponsibility off on the rest of us. I have no interest in cleaning up any mess you leave behind. That's your job. But most uninsured peopl just walk away from it. A lot of places (as in the whole country) require liability insurance for boaters, and I'm in favor of that. Feel free to take on the risk of losing your boat, but don't stick me with your mess when you trash the place, or other people's property.
Click to expand...
Are you sure about required insurance?

I am pretty sure NJ doesn't require insurance on a biat...car yes.

Anyone ..... what states require insurance to register?

Here is something on it....

"Q. What states require that I have insurance on my boat?

A.*No state requires boat owners to have insurance on a pleasure boat. If you have a loan using the boat as collateral, the bank will usually require insurance coverage on the boat. They will also require to be listed as a loss payee which protects their interest in the event of loss to the boat. Some marinas will require the boat owner to carry liability insurance and the marina may also require they be named as an additional insured."

http://www.unitedmarine.net/boat_insurance/faq.aspx
 
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twistedtree said:
Bottom like, insurance is usually the only way to keep people from foisting their irresponsibility off on the rest of us. I have no interest in cleaning up any mess you leave behind. That's your job.
Click to expand...


Actually, by paying your premiums and never filing a claim, you are effectively doing the same thing. Even if you do, just like your tax dollars did, you are basically spreading the cost of stupidity except this way you are lining the pockets of a lot of execs too. Just sayin' :)
 
psneeld said:
Are you sure about required insurance?

I am pretty sure NJ doesn't require insurance on a biat...car yes.

Anyone ..... what states require insurance to register?

Here is something on it....

"Q. What states require that I have insurance on my boat?

A.*No state requires boat owners to have insurance on a pleasure boat. If you have a loan using the boat as collateral, the bank will usually require insurance coverage on the boat. They will also require to be listed as a loss payee which protects their interest in the event of loss to the boat. Some marinas will require the boat owner to carry liability insurance and the marina may also require they be named as an additional insured."

Boat Insurance Frequently Asked Questions
Click to expand...

I don't know of any state requiring it. They all should, but they don't. Should be just like cars. Almost all marinas do though.
 
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Tom.B said:
Actually, by paying your premiums and never filing a claim, you are effectively doing the same thing. Even if you do, just like your tax dollars did, you are basically spreading the cost of stupidity except this way you are lining the pockets of a lot of execs too. Just sayin' :)
Click to expand...

That sounds very logical but that isn't what you're doing. By not having insurance you're giving up the coverage for a catastrophic situation. Insurance is really for those amounts we either couldn't afford to pay for or those we would not want to. If you are comfortable replacing the boat, then hull coverage may not be necessary. Unless you're comfortable paying $10 million, liability is definitely necessary.
 
Insurance is like EPIRB and security gear, useless until the day it is useful. Like TwistedTree said insurance should cover more than just your boat, damage you do to your boat, other boats, fuel/oil/contaminant spill, grounded boat that need salvage, injury to you and people aboard, injuries to other and also but not the least, the cost of search and rescue in case you need it. And we think about accident but what about your boat being on fire in the marina and spreading fire to a other boats around and destroying half of the marina decking or even worth if any casualties. There are numerous case justifying that an insurance should be mandatory, not only for your protection but also to protect people around you.
 
BandB said:
That sounds very logical but that isn't what you're doing. By not having insurance you're giving up the coverage for a catastrophic situation. Insurance is really for those amounts we either couldn't afford to pay for or those we would not want to. If you are comfortable replacing the boat, then hull coverage may not be necessary. Unless you're comfortable paying $10 million, liability is definitely necessary.
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I am NOT implying that you don't carry insurance. All I am doing is pointing out that what he was complaining about is the exact same thing as what he is doing. ;-)
 
Keep shopping.

Non marine example - in my home port, replacement value of homes is at least 1.5-2.0X the purchase value. Literally - build vs buy is 2x. Not sentimental, and don't need a replica of your abode if you lose it? The answer is a carrier who will do a cash value policy.

Liability insurance points have been made - you need that.

If you want to self insure your boat, put it in an LLC w/ liability insurance at least. Umbrella may suffice as well.
 
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